belief

[dirtfarmer]

Do we follow the man, or the Christ that is in the man? All you have said I agree with, but what I am getting at is it is not John, Paul or our Pastor or anyone we are to follow. What we are to follow is the anointing that God has given to man to teach that of what He has already given through Christ in whom He sends out to teach us. This is rightly dividing the word that we know it is the words of Christ and not of man that we are hearing.

hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

I am not a believer in the "second work of the Spirit" When God saved us through our belief in Christ, as our sacrifice for sin, He made our spirit alive to God and separated it from the soul. It is the Spirit that witnesses to our spirit that we are the children of God and because we are children then we are heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ. We are to study to show ourselves workmen of God. It is through this study as workmen of God that we are to compare what any man tells with scripture to see if it is true. The reason for this is that every man is fallible and can be wrong. If we put our faith in what man teaches we become followers of man and not followers of our savior.

Scripture was written to three classes of people: the Jew, the Gentile, and the Church. If you try to apply that that was written to the Jew and apply it to the Church, it causes confusion and God is not the author. Some people might ask; " who are the Gentiles? They are the people before Abram's call. The Church was a mystery hidden until the resurrection of Christ that made both Jew and Gentile into one body, the Church, the body Of Christ, and the curtain was rend in twain. Thus making the way of access for the believer to come into the presence of God and to personally make his petitions known.

 

[LovethroughDove]

God asks us to "believe in"

John 6:29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." ~ Jesus talking about himself.

And what do we believe in?

Matthew 16:16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ the Son of the living God."

Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart the God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Believing "in" is all encompassing. Believing "on" is surface.

 

[for_his_glory]

hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

I am not a believer in the "second work of the Spirit" When God saved us through our belief in Christ, as our sacrifice for sin, He made our spirit alive to God and separated it from the soul. It is the Spirit that witnesses to our spirit that we are the children of God and because we are children then we are heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ. We are to study to show ourselves workmen of God. It is through this study as workmen of God that we are to compare what any man tells with scripture to see if it is true. The reason for this is that every man is fallible and can be wrong. If we put our faith in what man teaches we become followers of man and not followers of our savior.

Scripture was written to three classes of people: the Jew, the Gentile, and the Church. If you try to apply that that was written to the Jew and apply it to the Church, it causes confusion and God is not the author. Some people might ask; " who are the Gentiles? They are the people before Abram's call. The Church was a mystery hidden until the resurrection of Christ that made both Jew and Gentile into one body, the Church, the body Of Christ, and the curtain was rend in twain. Thus making the way of access for the believer to come into the presence of God and to personally make his petitions known.

What is the second work of the Spirit? We study to show ourselves approved onto God a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth, 2 Timothy 2:15.

Scripture was never written for three classes of people, but written for all as the OT is a shadow of the NT in fulfillment of the law as Jew and Gentile still have to follow the moral parts of the law as we walk in the greatest commandment of love.

It was through Abraham a great man of faith that God made His covenant through and to all his seed and is considered being called the first Hebrew, Genesis 12:1-3; 14:13

The Church was never hidden, but only came to be after the resurrection when the disciples were behind shut doors in fear of the Jews and Jesus appeared to them and breathed on them and said to them to receive the Holy Spirit. Then Jesus said, "as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And many things did Jesus speak to them that are not written, John 20:19-31.

 

[for_his_glory]

God asks us to "believe in"

John 6:29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." ~ Jesus talking about himself.

And what do we believe in?

Matthew 16:16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ the Son of the living God."

Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart the God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Believing "in" is all encompassing. Believing "on" is surface.

No like button.........................

 

[dirtfarmer]

What is the second work of the Spirit? We study to show ourselves approved onto God a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth, 2 Timothy 2:15.

Scripture was never written for three classes of people, but written for all as the OT is a shadow of the NT in fulfillment of the law as Jew and Gentile still have to follow the moral parts of the law as we walk in the greatest commandment of love.

It was through Abraham a great man of faith that God made His covenant through and to all his seed and is considered being called the first Hebrew, Genesis 12:1-3; 14:13

The Church was never hidden, but only came to be after the resurrection when the disciples were behind shut doors in fear of the Jews and Jesus appeared to them and breathed on them and said to them to receive the Holy Spirit. Then Jesus said, "as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And many things did Jesus speak to them that are not written, John 20:19-31.

hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

What is the "mystery" in Ephesians 3:3 if it is not the Church and in Colossians 4:3 what is the "mystery of Christ", if it is not the "Church" of which there is not Jew or Gentile, but one, the Body of Christ?

When was the "Church" established: In John 20:19-31, or on the day of Pentecost?

How do you interpret Galatians 3:16, "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." in relation to your statement" all his seed"

 

[LovethroughDove]

No like button.........................

Your post #19 is spot on.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

All scripture is spirit filled and good for teaching, encouraging, rebuking, and for walking in rightousness. I don't think being Jewish, Gentile, or among the church matters on this aspect do to study one art of the scripture over another depending on which group you belong to. That said, I've been told that certian books and letters were written to different audiences, and so might have been worded to help that population understand it better. How lucky are we now a days to have access to all of the bible as it is now , and to be able to consider all of it.

The masaiah is possibly a Jewish term, worth speaking about to those of Jewish faith or heritage. It might need to just be explained more for both the gentile and the church, but for the Jew, hopefully it can lead to understanding Jesus in the context He really came.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

dirtfarmer here

Is there a difference between "believing on Jesus" and "believing in Jesus"?

I don't know. Some are better word smiths then me. But could we say that our hope is in Jesus? Would that cover both having faith in Him, as well as faith on Him?

 

[dirtfarmer]

I don't know. Some are better word smiths then me. But could we say that our hope is in Jesus? Would that cover both having faith in Him, as well as faith on Him?

hello Not_Now.Soon, dirtfarmer here

That goes along with Hebrews 11:6, " But without faith it is impossible to please him, for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is the rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[UberMink]

Maybe a matter of phrasing, believing in compared to believing on Jesus.
I don't think there is a difference as pertains to God. He knows those who believe and I think that is what is that important distinction in all this really.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Maybe a matter of phrasing, believing in compared to believing on Jesus.
I don't think there is a difference as pertains to God. He knows those who believe and I think that is what is that important distinction in all this really.

hello UberMink, dirtfarmer here

Do you believe the demons in Matthew 8:28-34 believed in Jesus or believed on Jesus? It is my understanding that they believed in Jesus because they knew he was God's son, but they didn't believe on Jesus for salvation. The reason they didn't believe on Jesus was because he was made a little lower than the angels for salvation to man, not the demons.

 

[UberMink]

hello UberMink, dirtfarmer here

Do you believe the demons in Matthew 8:28-34 believed in Jesus or believed on Jesus? It is my understanding that they believed in Jesus because they knew he was God's son, but they didn't believe on Jesus for salvation. The reason they didn't believe on Jesus was because he was made a little lower than the angels for salvation to man, not the demons.

I believe the demons knew Emmanuel was the son of God so it wasn't a matter of belief as they called him by that title, son of God.
I don't think they could believe in nor on Jesus as their minds were far from the capacity to do so being demons.

 

[dirtfarmer]

I believe the demons knew Emmanuel was the son of God so it wasn't a matter of belief as they called him by that title, son of God.
I don't think they could believe in nor on Jesus as their minds were far from the capacity to do so being demons.

hello UberMink, dirtfarmer here

James says that devils(demons) have the ability of belief.
James 2:19, : Thou believest that there is one God, thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

 

[UberMink]

hello UberMink, dirtfarmer here

James says that devils(demons) have the ability of belief.
James 2:19, : Thou believest that there is one God, thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

I would tend to think belief as we who are in Christ understand the word is different than that of a demon. I think rather than believe the word could be transliterated as plērophoreō, know.
The demons also know that there is one God and tremble.
Believing there is God is different than believing in or on Emmanuel. If a demon could believe in or on Emmanuel they would be saved.

 

[dirtfarmer]

I would tend to think belief as we who are in Christ understand the word is different than that of a demon. I think rather than believe the word could be transliterated as plērophoreō, know.
The demons also know that there is one God and tremble.
Believing there is God is different than believing in or on Emmanuel. If a demon could believe in or on Emmanuel they would be saved.

hello UberMink. dirtfarmer here

In James 2:19 "believe" is the greek word "pisteueis" which means- I believe; have faith in."

The Greek word Plerophoreo is used 5 times in the new testament: 1 time in Luke, 2 times in Romans, and 2 times in 2 Timothy, but 0 times in James.
Demons can believe "in" God, but for salvation we must believe " on God" (Jesus Christ) in whom is our salvation.

 

[for_his_glory]

hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

What is the "mystery" in Ephesians 3:3 if it is not the Church and in Colossians 4:3 what is the "mystery of Christ", if it is not the "Church" of which there is not Jew or Gentile, but one, the Body of Christ?

When was the "Church" established: In John 20:19-31, or on the day of Pentecost?

How do you interpret Galatians 3:16, "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." in relation to your statement" all his seed"

Sorry I haven't replied sooner as my internet was down for the last three days.

The mystery is the Spiritual things that are spoken and can not be revealed to a carnal mind, just like what Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3:1-12.

The Church being the body of Christ started the day Christ breathed on the disciples and told the to receive the Holy Spirit and then went on to tell them things that are not written in the book before He sent them out, John 20:21-31. The Disciples were the first to be called Christians in Antioch Acts 11:26.

Galatians 3:16 the seed has always been Christ even before the foundation of the world. Just like Abraham in whom God made the old covenant as Abraham was a great man of faith in God, Genesis 12:1-3 so the seed being Jesus who has brought a better covenant of Gods grace, Hebrews 8:6-13, has redeemed us from the curse of the law fulfilling the Temple sacrifice and has established Himself in us as being the head of the body that is in Christ whom before only knew Him outwardly and not Spiritually.

Those who believed on the name of Jesus at one time are now through the Spiritual rebirth are in Jesus as they have died to self and have risen with Christ seeking those things from above where Christ sits at the right hand of the Father, Colossians 3:1-4.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Sorry I haven't replied sooner as my internet was down for the last three days.

The mystery is the Spiritual things that are spoken and can not be revealed to a carnal mind, just like what Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3:1-12.

The Church being the body of Christ started the day Christ breathed on the disciples and told the to receive the Holy Spirit and then went on to tell them things that are not written in the book before He sent them out, John 20:21-31. The Disciples were the first to be called Christians in Antioch Acts 11:26.

Galatians 3:16 the seed has always been Christ even before the foundation of the world. Just like Abraham in whom God made the old covenant as Abraham was a great man of faith in God, Genesis 12:1-3 so the seed being Jesus who has brought a better covenant of Gods grace, Hebrews 8:6-13, has redeemed us from the curse of the law fulfilling the Temple sacrifice and has established Himself in us as being the head of the body that is in Christ whom before only knew Him outwardly and not Spiritually.

Those who believed on the name of Jesus at one time are now through the Spiritual rebirth are in Jesus as they have died to self and have risen with Christ seeking those things from above where Christ sits at the right hand of the Father, Colossians 3:1-4.

hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

Let's think about this appearing and breathing on them. When was it that Jesus Christ applied his blood to the altar in heaven and there by become the Heavenly High Priest making intercession for the believers? It couldn't have been before his ascension. So it was after his being caught up to heaven that he officially became or High Priest to make intercession for us.

We see that the Holy Spirit came on the day of Pentecost as the sound of a mighty rushing wind and cloven tongues like as of fire; it is at this time we are told they were all filled with the Holy Ghost. But was the Church established at this time? If it was, why was Peter still preaching the kingdom. Even in chapter 3 Peter is still preaching, " Repent and be converted that your sins may be blotted out. This is kingdom doctrine.

We see Peter said in Acts 5:31, Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins." Notice it states "to give repentance to Israel". There is no mention of Gentiles

Church doctrine is that unbelief is the only sin that condemns. Christ died for the sin of the whole world, therefore the payment for all sin has been made. It takes belief in Christ for the sin of unbelief to be erased.

You mentioned Hebrews 8:6-13. In verse 8 it is stated the new covenant was with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. The only way that the "new covenant" could apply to the church is if "replacement theology" is true, but there is no truth the doctrine that the church replaced Israel.

God promised Abram a heavenly people and an earthly people. The "Church" was not grafted into branches, but was grafted into the "root". the "root" is Jesus and not Israel.

Paul was the first to receive prophecy about the Church. He even stated in Galatians 6:15, " For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature."

 

[for_his_glory]

hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

Let's think about this appearing and breathing on them. When was it that Jesus Christ applied his blood to the altar in heaven and there by become the Heavenly High Priest making intercession for the believers? It couldn't have been before his ascension. So it was after his being caught up to heaven that he officially became or High Priest to make intercession for us.

We see that the Holy Spirit came on the day of Pentecost as the sound of a mighty rushing wind and cloven tongues like as of fire; it is at this time we are told they were all filled with the Holy Ghost. But was the Church established at this time? If it was, why was Peter still preaching the kingdom. Even in chapter 3 Peter is still preaching, " Repent and be converted that your sins may be blotted out. This is kingdom doctrine.

We see Peter said in Acts 5:31, Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins." Notice it states "to give repentance to Israel". There is no mention of Gentiles

Church doctrine is that unbelief is the only sin that condemns. Christ died for the sin of the whole world, therefore the payment for all sin has been made. It takes belief in Christ for the sin of unbelief to be erased.

You mentioned Hebrews 8:6-13. In verse 8 it is stated the new covenant was with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. The only way that the "new covenant" could apply to the church is if "replacement theology" is true, but there is no truth the doctrine that the church replaced Israel.

God promised Abram a heavenly people and an earthly people. The "Church" was not grafted into branches, but was grafted into the "root". the "root" is Jesus and not Israel.

Paul was the first to receive prophecy about the Church. He even stated in Galatians 6:15, " For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature."

Where in scripture does it say Christ applied his blood to the altar in heaven? Yes, he is our High Priest making intercession before the Father on our behalf.

You have to take account that we are reading two different books written by two different writers being John writing the book of John in his witness and testimony of Christ and Luke who was Paul's traveling companion who wrote Acts.

It was the disciples, not Paul at that time, that were assembled behind shut doors that Christ, now in His glorified body, breathed on and told them to receive the Holy Spirit. Then Jesus showed them many other signs that are not written for us to know, John 20:21-31. This was all done before Jesus ascended up to heaven to sit at the right hand of God.

The disciples were commanded not to go into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, Matthew 10:5,6. Paul later on even after Stephen was martyred was sent to preach to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21.

Hebrews 8:6-13 is not a new covenant, but a better covenant as the greatest law (commandment) is love that we bind in our heart and to obey Gods moral laws in our mind as we love with our neighbor as we would love our self.

The Church was not grafted as it was the Gentiles of faith that were grafted into the branches of the Jews of faith with Christ being the root as this is the Church now being the full body of Christ, Romans 11:11-31; Ephesians 2:11-13; Galatians 3:19-29.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Where in scripture does it say Christ applied his blood to the altar in heaven? Yes, he is our High Priest making intercession before the Father on our behalf.

You have to take account that we are reading two different books written by two different writers being John writing the book of John in his witness and testimony of Christ and Luke who was Paul's traveling companion who wrote Acts.

It was the disciples, not Paul at that time, that were assembled behind shut doors that Christ, now in His glorified body, breathed on and told them to receive the Holy Spirit. Then Jesus showed them many other signs that are not written for us to know, John 20:21-31. This was all done before Jesus ascended up to heaven to sit at the right hand of God.

The disciples were commanded not to go into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, Matthew 10:5,6. Paul later on even after Stephen was martyred was sent to preach to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21.

Hebrews 8:6-13 is not a new covenant, but a better covenant as the greatest law (commandment) is love that we bind in our heart and to obey Gods moral laws in our mind as we love with our neighbor as we would love our self.

The Church was not grafted as it was the Gentiles of faith that were grafted into the branches of the Jews of faith with Christ being the root as this is the Church now being the full body of Christ, Romans 11:11-31; Ephesians 2:11-13; Galatians 3:19-29.

hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

Hebrews 9:12, " Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us."

Hebrews 8:8, " For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah"

Hebrews 11:17 , " And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree."
We see from these verses the grafting was into the root, Jesus Christ, not the branches, the Jewish religion.

 

[Jim Parker]

Is there a difference between "believing on Jesus" and "believing in Jesus"?

No
"Believe ON Jesus" was how someone said "believe IN Jesus" 400 years ago in the Late Middle ENglish of the KJV.
The Modern English equivalent is "believe IN..."
They both mean the same thing.