"Believe" in the present tense

[FreeGrace]

I do have eternal life. It is Christ in me.

Everyone who has believed in Jesus Christ has eternal life. That's who Jesus gives eternal life. And He said that they shall never perish. John 10:28

This is eternal security.

It is not anymore complicated than that.

That is corrrect.

If you would not cut out the clear teaching(which was included in my post you quoted) you would see that "our" life is Christ - not a life that is something we possess.

Why continue to contradict our Lord Jesus Christ? He SAID "whoever believes HAS eternal life" in John 5:24. Why argue with that?

You have yet to show that life is something someone possesses, where Paul has clearly taught that our life is Christ.

What Paul wrote doesn't in any way contradict what Jesus SAID in John 5:24.

And I HAVE shown that eternal life is a possession. A PRESENT possession for those who believe.

They received it WHEN they first believed.

Satan's lie is that we can be like God. It has not changed since the beginning.

I have no idea why this keeps getting repeated.

The Bible is clear; we are to be "Christ-like" in our behavior. Is this disagreeable to your views?

Gal 4:19-20 - My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you,

 

[JLB]

Now that's funny.

Where does His words say "while those who have His life within and do evil will come forth in the resurrection of condemnation"???

No need to answer as His words do not say that. You rearranged words (some here, some there) to say it.

You realize that "all who are in the grave" (the unsaved (never saved) and the saved) will come forth, right?

• 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.


Are you saying that those who have the Spirit of [eternal] Life in Christ, can do no evil. [Now that is funny!!!]


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:1-2

• Those who have the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus and do not walk according to the flesh, have no concerns about condemnation.

• Those who have the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, and walk according to the flesh, can expect to come forth in the resurrection of condemnation.

again Paul warns us -


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

Jesus:

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life
• those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation

Paul:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

The choice to walk according to the flesh or the choice to walk according to the Spirit of [eternal] Life in Christ Jesus is ours to make, for each one of us will give an account before Him on that Day.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"And Jesus said in John 5:24 that "whoever believes HAS eternal life", not "is connected to eternal life", as stated here."

And Jesus also said in the next verse's: those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

Is there a point to this? v.24 sets the stage for the context for v.28-29. Those who believe HAVE eternal life. So those who have "done good" are believers, obviously.

If there is some other point, please make it. Just quoting verses doesn't advance either the discussion or your own views.

 

[FreeGrace]

What we have presently is The Spirit of [eternal] Life in Christ Jesus presently.

Please don't forget to recall that Jesus said He gives them (this) eternal life and they shall never perish in John 10:28. Eternal security.

Those who have His Spirit of Life and walk according to the flesh will come forth in the resurrection of condemnation.

This is not yet been shown from Scripture.

Not amount of rearranging His words will change this.

lol. Of course not, so why are so many folk doing just that with John 10:28?? He gave NO CONDITIONS for recipients of eternal life. Just the promise that they shall never perish.

I'll prove my point.

Can a saved person, one who has been given eternal life, ever perish?

Teaching us that those who have His Life within and do good, will come forth in the resurrection of life, while those who have His life within and do evil will come forth in the resurrection of condemnation.

Since v.24 is the context for the following verses, to "do good" in these verses means to "believe in Christ" from v.24 and therefore, to HAVE eternal life.

Please explain what "do good" means.

If you haven't figured it out by now, I will tell you, His Spirit is eternal life.

Of course. And those who have been given eternal life shall never perish, so said Jesus in John 10:28.

So why should anyone believe that salvation can be lost?

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:1-2

Nothing here about any warning of being taken "out" of Christ. And NO NEED to, either. Paul guaranteed our inheritance by the indwelling Holy Spirit who has marked those "having believed" (point in time). Eternal security.

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

Is this teaching a works based salvation system? Please explain.

Jesus:

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life
• those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation

Was Jesus teaching a works based salvation system?

Can a saved person, who HAS eternal life, ever perish?

Paul:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

Was Paul teaching a works based salvation system?

 

[FreeGrace]

John 5:24 Jesus talking about Events that will happen in the Future
Very truly I tell you,
whoever Hears My Word (The Words that Jesus Teaches, John 5:25 John 5:28)
& believes Him who sent me (Believes God who sent Jesus, John 6:29 John 12:44)
has eternal life (John 5:26 two conditions above has to be met before your name

Not exactly. Jesus said "whoever hears (present tense) and believes (present tense) HAS (present tense) eternal life.

What IS future is the result of presently hearing and believing and having eternal life.

& will not be judged (John 5:29 Revelation 20:13)
but has crossed over from death to life. (1 John 3:14-16 Ephesians 2:1-10 Personal Tense)

What is this "personal tense"?

 

[JLB]

Everyone who has believed in Jesus Christ has eternal life. That's who Jesus gives eternal life. And He said that they shall never perish. John 10:28

This is eternal security.

Believe is the condition for eternal life, which is proven by hearing His Voice and following Him, and knowing Him.


26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:26-28

There are two types of people on earth: Only those who believe, have fulfilled the condition for eternal life.

1. Those who believe.
2. Those who do not believe.

Those who believe for a while, then do not believe any longer, because they return to unbelieving, have fulfilled the condition for eternal death.

• What I have asked for to provide, and you can not, is scripture that teaches us those who do not believe any longer have eternal life.

Those who have the Spirit of [eternal life] in Christ, and walk according to the Spirit, can be secure in their eternal destination.

• There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:1-2

Those who have the Spirit of [eternal] life in Christ, and walk according to the flesh, remain under condemnation, in which they will come forth in the resurrection of condemnation, unless they repent and obey the command to walk in the Spirit, so that they will no longer fulfill the lust's of the flesh.

• I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16-21

• Those Christians who practice the works of the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of God.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2 Corinthians 5:10

• We will all give an account of our life lived in this body to the Righteous Judge.

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

Jesus:

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life
• those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation

Paul:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

JLB

 

[markathome]

Not exactly. Jesus said "whoever hears (present tense) and believes (present tense) HAS (present tense) eternal life.

John 5:24 Jesus talking about Events that will happen in the Future
Very truly I tell you,
whoever Hears My Word (The Words that Jesus Teaches, John 5:25 John 5:28)
& believes Him who sent me (Believes God who sent Jesus, John 6:29 John 12:44)
and believes Him who sent me
and believes Him who sent me
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.

Are you not removing "and believes Him who sent me" to bolster your theology?
Is not the Him, God that is being removed?

 

[JLB]

Please don't forget to recall that Jesus said He gives them (this) eternal life and they shall never perish in John 10:28. Eternal security.

Please don't forget that Jesus gave the condition for eternal life, which is believing.

Those who believe for a while then do not believe, any longer have returned to unbelieving, no longer fulfill the condition that Jesus gave for eternal life.

Unless you have a scripture that says the unbelieving have eternal life, then your teaching is considered as unbiblical, because it is not found in scripture.


Furthermore by studying the context and the other scripture about this subject, it is clear.

26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:26-28

There are two types of people on earth: Only those who believe, have fulfilled the condition for eternal life.

1. Those who believe.
2. Those who do not believe.

Those who believe for a while, then do not believe any longer, because they return to unbelieving, have fulfilled the condition for eternal death.

• What I have asked for to provide, and you can not, is scripture that teaches us those who do not believe any longer have eternal life.

Those who have the Spirit of [eternal life] in Christ, and walk according to the Spirit, can be secure in their eternal destination.

• There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:1-2

Those who have the Spirit of [eternal] life in Christ, and walk according to the flesh, remain under condemnation, in which they will come forth in the resurrection of condemnation, unless they repent and obey the command to walk in the Spirit, so that they will no longer fulfill the lust's of the flesh.

• I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16-21

• Those Christians who practice the works of the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of God.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2 Corinthians 5:10

• We will all give an account of our life lived in this body to the Righteous Judge.

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

Jesus:

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life
• those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation

Paul:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

JLB

 

[markathome]

What is this "personal tense"?

Example: I stubbed my Toe, ouch!
When did I stubbed my Toe?
Was it yesterday (Past Tense)
Was it today (Past Tense)
Did it just happen (Past Tense)
Will it happen tomorrow (Future Tense)
How does my Toe feel Presently (Personal Tense)

 

[Edward]

I said this:
"And Jesus said in John 5:24 that "whoever believes HAS eternal life", not "is connected to eternal life", as stated here."

Is there a point to this? v.24 sets the stage for the context for v.28-29. Those who believe HAVE eternal life. So those who have "done good" are believers, obviously.

If there is some other point, please make it. Just quoting verses doesn't advance either the discussion or your own views.

You seem to like that scripture in John 5. There's a danger in holding on to one scripture as a doctrine, it must agree with all the rest of scriptures. We all know this. You're saying that this scripture here makes it impossible for one to lose their salvation, as if, no matter what they do and that is not correct brother. In revelation 22 it makes reference to the Lord taking someone out of the book of life...Now I ask you how is that possible if what you are saying that John 5:24 means, is true?

Revelation 22:19
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.../

 

[reba]

closed for the personal attacks

Please take this as a general warning.. the ongoing battle around here is about to be prohibited for some time...
Take heed other threads on the subject will be quickly closed...
When members see or understand, explain, Scripture a bit differently , while still in the frame work of Christianity ,as described in the Statement of Faith do not challenge that members Christianity. Do not claim they are in contradiction of Jesus/Scripture ...

Seems we are not mature enough to discuss this topic as adults... The whole discussion of OSAS is about to be prohibited.... Before anyone thinks this curbing is the other guys fault look in the mirror.

 

[reba]

The TF mods may wish to review and reopen.