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We’re talking about obedience to Jesus’ teachings and commands!
Continuing obedience is what “being faithful” means!


“… only we who believe can enter His rest … but those who first heard this good news
failed to enter because they disobeyed God.” (Hebrews 4:3, 7)

Disobedience proves Unbelief --- Unbelief causes Disobedience

“And to whom was God speaking when he took an oath that they would never enter His rest?
Wasn’t it the people who disobeyed him? So we see that because of their unbelief
they were not able to enter his rest … so we ought to tremble with fear that some of
you might fail to experience it … IF we disobey God … we will fall.” (Hebrews 3:18 - 4:11)


“… make sure that your own hearts are not evil and unbelieving,
turning you away from the living God …
so that none of you will be deceived by sin
and hardened against God.” (Hebrews 3:12)

If we are deceived by sin (especially habitual sin), this can result in
departing from God with
“an evil heart of unbelief” (Hebrews 3:12, NKJV).

“Do you not know that
if you present yourselves to anyone as as obedient slaves,
you are slaves of the one whom you obey,
either (slaves) of sin which leads to (eternal) death,
OR (slaves) of obedience leading too righteousness?” (Romans 6:16)

Slaves of obedience > eternal life --- Slaves of sin > eternal death

“Only those who fear the Lord and keep His commandments have life with God.
But there is no (eternal) life in those who do not keep His commandments.”

(from “The Shepherd of Hermas”, quoted as Scripture by such early Christian leaders
as Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria,
and Origen. It was probably the most popular book
in the Christian
church during the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th centuries a.d.)

“Afterward they will receive the crown of life
that God has promised to those who love Him.” (James 1:12)

The “crown of life” means eternal life.

“You are truly my disciples, if you remain faithful to my teachings
… anyone who obeys my teachings will never die!” (John 8:31, 51)


“Therefore, go and make disciples … Teach these new disciples to
obey all the commands I have given you.” (Matthew 28:19-20)


“We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.” (2 Cor. 10:5)

“To all who are victorious (overcomers) who obey Me to the very end,
to them I will give authority over all the nations.” (Revelation 2:26)


The church: “all who keep God’s commandments and
maintain their testimony for Jesus.” (Revelation 12:17)


“So, you must live as God’s obedient children.” (1 Peter 1:14)

Question:
Must one love Jesus (thus obey His commandments) to get to heaven?


“If you love Me, obey My commandments.” (John 14:15)

“Those who accept My commandments and obey them are
the ones who love Me … All who love Me will do what I say.
Anyone who doesn’t love Me will not obey Me.” (John 14:21-24)


“When you obey My commandments, you remain in My love” (John 15:10)

“You are My friends, if you do what I command.” (John 15:14)

“We can be sure we know Him, if we obey His commandments” (1 John 2:3)

“He who keeps His commandments abides in Him and He in him” (1 John 3:24)

“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love” (1 John 3:24)

“Loving God means keeping His commandments” (1 John 5:3)

“Love means doing what God has commanded us” (2 John 6)

Even though OT people had none of our advantages, God said He would show
mercy “to those who love Me and keep My commandments” (Exodus 20:6)
 
Last edited:
We’re talking about obedience to Jesus’ teachings and commands!
Continuing obedience is what “being faithful” means!


“… only we who believe can enter His rest … but those who first heard this good news
failed to enter because they disobeyed God.” (Hebrews 4:3, 7)

Disobedience proves Unbelief --- Unbelief causes Disobedience

“And to whom was God speaking when he took an oath that they would never enter His rest?
Wasn’t it the people who disobeyed him? So we see that because of their unbelief
they were not able to enter his rest … so we ought to tremble with fear that some of
you might fail to experience it … IF we disobey God … we will fall.” (Hebrews 3:18 - 4:11)


“… make sure that your own hearts are not evil and unbelieving,
turning you away from the living God …
so that none of you will be deceived by sin
and hardened against God.” (Hebrews 3:12)

If we are deceived by sin (especially habitual sin), this can result in
departing from God with
“an evil heart of unbelief” (Hebrews 3:12, NKJV).

“Do you not know that
if you present yourselves to anyone as as obedient slaves,
you are slaves of the one whom you obey,
either (slaves) of sin which leads to (eternal) death,
OR (slaves) of obedience leading too righteousness?” (Romans 6:16)

Slaves of obedience > eternal life --- Slaves of sin > eternal death

“Only those who fear the Lord and keep His commandments have life with God.
But there is no (eternal) life in those who do not keep His commandments.”

(from “The Shepherd of Hermas”, quoted as Scripture by such early Christian leaders
as Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria,
and Origen. It was probably the most popular book
in the Christian
church during the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th centuries a.d.)

“Afterward they will receive the crown of life
that God has promised to those who love Him.” (James 1:12)

The “crown of life” means eternal life.

“You are truly my disciples, if you remain faithful to my teachings
… anyone who obeys my teachings will never die!” (John 8:31, 51)


“Therefore, go and make disciples … Teach these new disciples to
obey all the commands I have given you.” (Matthew 28:19-20)


“We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.” (2 Cor. 10:5)

“To all who are victorious (overcomers) who obey Me to the very end,
to them I will give authority over all the nations.” (Revelation 2:26)


The church: “all who keep God’s commandments and
maintain their testimony for Jesus.” (Revelation 12:17)


“So, you must live as God’s obedient children.” (1 Peter 1:14)

Question:
Must one love Jesus (thus obey His commandments) to get to heaven?


“If you love Me, obey My commandments.” (John 14:15)

“Those who accept My commandments and obey them are
the ones who love Me … All who love Me will do what I say.
Anyone who doesn’t love Me will not obey Me.” (John 14:21-24)


“When you obey My commandments, you remain in My love” (John 15:10)

“You are My friends, if you do what I command.” (John 15:14)

“We can be sure we know Him, if we obey His commandments” (1 John 2:3)

“He who keeps His commandments abides in Him and He in him” (1 John 3:24)

“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love” (1 John 3:24)

“Loving God means keeping His commandments” (1 John 5:3)

“Love means doing what God has commanded us” (2 John 6)

Even though OT people had none of our advantages, God said He would show
mercy “to those who love Me and keep My commandments” (Exodus 20:6)

You quoted Matt.28:19,20 but omitted baptism in said passage. May I ask what is your position on baptism?
 
You quoted Matt.28:19,20 but omitted baptism in said passage. May I ask what is your position on baptism?
IMO, water baptism is not necessary just because Paul said he goes to people
NOT to baptize, but to preach the gospel (paraphrasing).
 
Can one hate Jesus and still accept Him (trust Him, believe on Him) as Lord over him/her? My answer to your question is yes.
Perhaps I can translate your answer correctly ...
One must love Jesus (thus obey His commandments) to get to heaven!
 
Hi Senior. This forum no longer allows what they call debates. I humbly disagree with you on baptism. However, we can discuss and study issues on a closed PM. I invite you to engage with me in this.

Thank you.

TO BE DEEP IN SCRIPTURE IS TO CEASE BEING CATHOLIC, PROTESTANT, JEW OR CALVINIST
 
Perhaps I can translate your answer correctly ...
One must love Jesus (thus obey His commandments) to get to heaven!
I would agree with this.

Luke 10:27 NKJV when asked what was required to inherit eternal life Jesus replied, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind and your neighbor as yourself.”
 
I would agree with this.
Luke 10:27 NKJV when asked what was required to inherit eternal life Jesus replied, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind and your neighbor as yourself.”
By obeying Jesus' commandments, I mean trying to do so
with the correct heart attitude, and repenting when we slip up.
I hope I am wrong and absolute perfection is not required of us!
 
By obeying Jesus' commandments, I mean trying to do so
with the correct heart attitude, and repenting when we slip up.
I hope I am wrong and absolute perfection is not required of us!
I believe absolute perfection is required of us.
"Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." - The Christ, Jesus, as recorded in Matthew 5:48 NKJV

He said "shall be perfect" not should be. It's a requirement. The fact remains that for us this requirement is impossible for all have sinned fall short of the glory of God. None is righteous, no, not one. This is why Jesus had to suffer, die, and rise again. It was the only way that we can have any hope.

Here's where the gospel shines. Romans 8:1 (NKJV) There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. When we follow Jesus, trust Jesus, put our faith in Jesus, believe on Jesus, surrender to Jesus, and let Him take the wheel so-to-speak we are able to walk in the Spirit because we let His Spirit guide us.
 
We’re talking about obedience to Jesus’ teachings and commands!
Continuing obedience is what “being faithful” means!


“… only we who believe can enter His rest … but those who first heard this good news
failed to enter because they disobeyed God.” (Hebrews 4:3, 7)

Disobedience proves Unbelief --- Unbelief causes Disobedience

“And to whom was God speaking when he took an oath that they would never enter His rest?
Wasn’t it the people who disobeyed him? So we see that because of their unbelief
they were not able to enter his rest … so we ought to tremble with fear that some of
you might fail to experience it … IF we disobey God … we will fall.” (Hebrews 3:18 - 4:11)


“… make sure that your own hearts are not evil and unbelieving,
turning you away from the living God …
so that none of you will be deceived by sin
and hardened against God.” (Hebrews 3:12)

If we are deceived by sin (especially habitual sin), this can result in
departing from God with
“an evil heart of unbelief” (Hebrews 3:12, NKJV).

“Do you not know that
if you present yourselves to anyone as as obedient slaves,
you are slaves of the one whom you obey,
either (slaves) of sin which leads to (eternal) death,
OR (slaves) of obedience leading too righteousness?” (Romans 6:16)

Slaves of obedience > eternal life --- Slaves of sin > eternal death

“Only those who fear the Lord and keep His commandments have life with God.
But there is no (eternal) life in those who do not keep His commandments.”

(from “The Shepherd of Hermas”, quoted as Scripture by such early Christian leaders
as Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria,
and Origen. It was probably the most popular book
in the Christian
church during the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th centuries a.d.)

“Afterward they will receive the crown of life
that God has promised to those who love Him.” (James 1:12)

The “crown of life” means eternal life.

“You are truly my disciples, if you remain faithful to my teachings
… anyone who obeys my teachings will never die!” (John 8:31, 51)


“Therefore, go and make disciples … Teach these new disciples to
obey all the commands I have given you.” (Matthew 28:19-20)


“We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.” (2 Cor. 10:5)

“To all who are victorious (overcomers) who obey Me to the very end,
to them I will give authority over all the nations.” (Revelation 2:26)


The church: “all who keep God’s commandments and
maintain their testimony for Jesus.” (Revelation 12:17)


“So, you must live as God’s obedient children.” (1 Peter 1:14)

Question:
Must one love Jesus (thus obey His commandments) to get to heaven?


“If you love Me, obey My commandments.” (John 14:15)

“Those who accept My commandments and obey them are
the ones who love Me … All who love Me will do what I say.
Anyone who doesn’t love Me will not obey Me.” (John 14:21-24)


“When you obey My commandments, you remain in My love” (John 15:10)

“You are My friends, if you do what I command.” (John 15:14)

“We can be sure we know Him, if we obey His commandments” (1 John 2:3)

“He who keeps His commandments abides in Him and He in him” (1 John 3:24)

“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love” (1 John 3:24)

“Loving God means keeping His commandments” (1 John 5:3)

“Love means doing what God has commanded us” (2 John 6)

Even though OT people had none of our advantages, God said He would show
mercy “to those who love Me and keep My commandments” (Exodus 20:6)
What a great study!

I agree with all.
 
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Reactions: JLB
Hi Senior. This forum no longer allows what they call debates. I humbly disagree with you on baptism. However, we can discuss and study issues on a closed PM. I invite you to engage with me in this.

Thank you.

TO BE DEEP IN SCRIPTURE IS TO CEASE BEING CATHOLIC, PROTESTANT, JEW OR CALVINIST
I wish WIP would reply to this since he's on this thread.

It's my understanding that we can discuss or debate this topic, but in a civil and friendly manner.

It's not t he disagreeing that creates a problem but HOW we disagree.

At least this is my understanding...If you two PM each other, the rest of us will miss everything you say.
 
IMO, water baptism is not necessary just because Paul said he goes to people
NOT to baptize, but to preach the gospel (paraphrasing).
Paul was sent to preach to the Gentiles.
But JESUS said to teach all nations and baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

We can't understand fully why Jesus said to be baptized...but we should do as He instructed.

By this I do not believe that if a born again believer dies without being baptized he will not be saved. Only Jesus saves.
 
"Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." - The Christ, Jesus, as recorded in Matthew 5:48 NKJV

Romans 8:1 (NKJV) There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. When we follow Jesus, trust Jesus, put our faith in Jesus, believe on Jesus, surrender to Jesus, and let Him take the wheel so-to-speak we are able to walk in the Spirit because we let His Spirit guide us.
Usually when "perfect" is used it means "mature", but here it makes no sense, IMO.

I find that most people today have a misconception of what "in Christ" means!
IMO, those who do the blue are "in Christ".
 
Romans 6:3
Galatians 3:27

Interesting.
But is getting INTO Christ the same as being IN Christ?
Is there a difference??

Excellent scriptures you gave. You hit the nail on the head. Surely there is a difference between "in" and "into". For example, I'm in debt. How did I get into debt. I'm in the house. How did I get into the house? Run? Jump? crawl? Swim? Fly? Carried in?? I have a favorite coat. I am in the coat. Yet before I' in the coat I had to get into the coat. Gal.3:27 (which you rightfully mentioned) teaches that when one is baptized "into Christ" he has also "put on Christ", sorta like my coat, when I get into it I also have it on.
 
Romans 6:3
Galatians 3:27

Interesting.
But is getting INTO Christ the same as being IN Christ?
Is there a difference??
no difference you have to be in HIM connected to the true vine to be in him are placed into him Christ in us the hope of glory
 
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