Believing in Wrong Doctrine: Will I lose my salvation?

[GodsGrace]

Some believe in eternal security, or OSAS.
Some believe in conditional security or OSNAS.

Can believing in incorrect doctrine cause one to lose their salvation?
Please think about this before answer a knee jerk NO....since we many times say that doctrine does not save us.
I've made this statement myself.

But...could a doctrine CAUSE us, in some way, to endanger our soul?
Hyper grace would be another concept....

What is your opinion?

 

[Knotical]

Someone on the OSAS side of the argument would say that if you believe in a false doctrine you may have never been saved as God through the Holy Spirit has not revealed the truth to you, therefore, has not imparted salvation to you.

So, it would not be a matter of having lost your salvation, but have never had it in the first place.

 

[GodsGrace]

Someone on the OSAS side of the argument would say that if you believe in a false doctrine you may have never been saved as God through the Holy Spirit has not revealed the truth to you, therefore, has not imparted salvation to you.

So, it would not be a matter of having lost your salvation, but have never had it in the first place.

Wow. So this is why I hear some say that if we don't have the right doctrine, we're lost.

Which is understandable to me now that you explain it.
However, it's even worse now....HOW do we know for sure who's right?

I have a method but it's not accepted by most Christians.
I like to go back and find out what the early theologians taught and believed. I'm told they weren't inspired...as if any of today's teachers/theologians are...

Thanks for your reply... it clarified a lot.
I still say that our doctrine doesn't save us...Jesus does.

However, I DO believe some doctrines could CAUSE our salvation to be in jeopardy...but let's see what others here think.

 

[Knotical]

Going back to the OSAS stance on it, once our eyes are opened to the truth by the Holy Spirit and we are imparted salvation things become clearer. That is not to say we will suddenly understand everything the bible teaches, as our walk with God is a journey, not a destination. The destination is Heaven, which we will be able to achieve because of salvation that is imparted to us.

A good rule of thumb that I have found is when you begin to understand truths in the bible and realize this understanding did not come about on its own (you figured it out on your own), the logical conclusion is that the Holy Spirit has revealed it to you.

Something else to clarify is that those men who wrote the various books of the bible were inspired to do so. Any pastor that preaches the Word in truth is doing so under the influence and power of the Holy Spirit. The best way to be sure of that is to test what the pastor is saying against what the bible says, within context.

 

[OzSpen]

Some believe in eternal security, or OSAS.
Some believe in conditional security or OSNAS.

Can believing in incorrect doctrine cause one to lose their salvation?
Please think about this before answer a knee jerk NO....since we many times say that doctrine does not save us.
I've made this statement myself.

But...could a doctrine CAUSE us, in some way, to endanger our soul?
Hyper grace would be another concept....

What is your opinion?

wondering,

You've used OSAS vs OSNAS as 'incorrect doctrine'.

I'd like you to define what you regard as 'incorrect doctrine' when Scripture speaks of 'false doctrine/teaching' and 'false prophets' (Jer 23:16; Matt 24:24; 2 Tim 4:3-4; 2 Pet 2; 3:17-18).

Would you regard a different interpretation such as OSAS vs OSNAS as on the same level of heresy as those who are unitarians with regard to the Godhead or the heretical views of Bultmann and Spong?

German theologian, Rudolph Bultmann, wrote:

It is impossible to use electric light and the wireless and to avail ourselves of modern medical and surgical discoveries, and at the same time to believe in the New Testament world of spirits and miracles (Bultmann 1961:5).​

​

Retired Episcopal Bishop John Shelby Spong wrote:

1. Since God can no longer be conceived in theistic terms, it becomes nonsensical to seek to understand Jesus as the incarnation of the theistic deity. So the Christology of the ages is bankrupt.
2. The biblical story of the perfect and finished creation from which human beings fell into sin is pre-Darwinian mythology and post-Darwinian nonsense.
3. The virgin birth, understood as literal biology, makes Christ's divinity, as traditionally understood, impossible.
4. The miracle stories of the New Testament can no longer be interpreted in a post-Newtonian world as supernatural events performed by an incarnate deity.
5. The view of the cross as the sacrifice for the sins of the world is a barbarian idea based on primitive concepts of God and must be dismissed (J S Spong 1998, A Call for a New Reformation).

Do you place Bultmann's and Spong's heretical teachings on the same level of 'incorrect doctrine' as OSAS vs OSNAS?

Oz

Works consulted

R. Bultmann 'New Testament and Mythology' in Kerygma and Myth: a theological debate. H.W. Bartsch (ed), R.H. Fuller (trans). New York: Harper & Row, 1961.

 

[Senior]

Myself and others have concluded that to RECONCLE
the eternal security NT verses with those verses that
are opposed to them ... we need to understand
what is really meant by that one word "believe"!

To reconcile all of the verses, we see this in the NT:
True saving faith = deep heart-felt belief
+ enduring faith + strong trust + obedience

There is NO one word in any language which encompasses
all of these concepts, so translators just use the word "believe".
But, we know that far more than intellectual belief is required
to be saved.

 

[Truthfrees]

Some believe in eternal security, or OSAS.
Some believe in conditional security or OSNAS.

Can believing in incorrect doctrine cause one to lose their salvation?
Please think about this before answer a knee jerk NO....since we many times say that doctrine does not save us.
I've made this statement myself.

But...could a doctrine CAUSE us, in some way, to endanger our soul?
Hyper grace would be another concept....

What is your opinion?

i can't see how a wrong doctrine can cause a born again believer/ a new creation in Christ to stop being a new creation

salvation is a work of God in our lives - learning to stop sinning and living righteously is an ongoing work of God in our lives

false doctrine - or even misunderstanding true doctrines can interfere with how well we do with interacting with God and people - and how well we do with overcoming sin - and how well we do with accepting ourselves while God is working His daily work in our lives - and it can even cause us to think we are lost when God really has us firmly in His hand - but i don't see how our silly misunderstanding of scripture can cause the powerful work of salvation to be lost

 

[JohnDB]

Gnostics believed in OSAS... didn't do much for them.
One single doctrine (like handwashing) isn't going to be able to make you saved vx unsaved. But the sum of the Law and the prophets is two commandments?

There is no beatitude covering most theologically correct...and since we are human there is no way we can be.

 

[JLB]

Some believe in eternal security, or OSAS.
Some believe in conditional security or OSNAS.

Can believing in incorrect doctrine cause one to lose their salvation?
Please think about this before answer a knee jerk NO....since we many times say that doctrine does not save us.
I've made this statement myself.

But...could a doctrine CAUSE us, in some way, to endanger our soul?
Hyper grace would be another concept....

What is your opinion?

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12


Yes, most certainly correct doctrine does has to do with our salvation.




JLB

 

[JLB]

i can't see how a wrong doctrine can cause a born again believer/ a new creation in Christ to stop being a new creation

salvation is a work of God in our lives - learning to stop sinning and living righteously is an ongoing work of God in our lives

false doctrine - or even misunderstanding true doctrines can interfere with how well we do with interacting with God and people - and how well we do with overcoming sin - and how well we do with accepting ourselves while God is working His daily work in our lives - and it can even cause us to think we are lost when God really has us firmly in His hand - but i don't see how our silly misunderstanding of scripture can cause the powerful work of salvation to be lost

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15




JLB

 

[OzSpen]

Myself and others have concluded that to RECONCLE
the eternal security NT verses with those verses that
are opposed to them ... we need to understand
what is really meant by that one word "believe"!

To reconcile all of the verses, we see this in the NT:
True saving faith = deep heart-felt belief
+ enduring faith + strong trust + obedience

There is NO one word in any language which encompasses
all of these concepts, so translators just use the word "believe".
But, we know that far more than intellectual belief is required
to be saved.

Senior,

I consider there is a word that suits all of the verses for and against.

I am not convinced OSAS or OSNAS is taught in the Bible.

I find the better language to be 'endurance' or 'perseverance' to the end.

Traditionally, this has been called perseverance of the saints and is supported by Matt 24:13 (ESV), 'The one who endures to the end will be saved'.

Oz

 

[Truthfrees]

Senior,

I consider there is a word that suits all of the verses for and against.

I am not convinced OSAS or OSNAS is taught in the Bible.

I find the better language to be 'endurance' or 'perseverance' to the end.

Traditionally, this has been called perseverance of the saints and is supported by Matt 24:13 (ESV), 'The one who endures to the end will be saved'.

Oz

good point - i guess when we start making up terms that aren't in the bible we can find all kinds of disagreement

if we stick to bible words we might do better in our discussions

and learning/using hebrew and greek would be best if we want to know what was really said - rather than what some translator says the bible says

 

[JLB]

if we stick to bible words we might do better in our discussions

Which is why we need to have a biblical glossary at the end of of new Statement of Faith.


Redefining biblical words to suit our postmodern perspective is a crucial issue in our midst.



JLB

 

[JohnDB]

2Timothy talks about cutting straight the Gospel message...
There is a way...but defining it is going to be difficult at best.
StoveBolts was on to something when he talked about not promoting extra biblical writing or downplaying certain books in the Bible. I don't think that we should go too far beyond that. Otherwise we are kicking Samaritans to the curb who more need to be here than others.

 

[Truthfrees]

i guess the best thing and easiest to understand principle would be for us to tell people to draw near to God - even when you sin - and He will draw near to you - and help you get free from sin - and do this for the rest of your life

if they do just that they should have the most important doctrine they need

 

[JLB]

2Timothy talks about cutting straight the Gospel message...
There is a way...but defining it is going to be difficult at best.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is:

Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.


From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Matthew 4:17


Repent is the command of the Gospel.

Repent means to turn to God.

If you are called to turn to God, then by default you are called to turn from Satan as your lord.

The way that we obey the Gospel command to repent is to confess Jesus as Lord.

This is what grants the believer/obeyer of the Gospel, the forgiveness of sins.


The way we are granted the forgiveness of sins, is by repenting, which means turning away from Satan and his kingdom, and turning to God, by confessing Jesus as Lord.

This is plainly what the Lord Jesus Christ taught to and commissioned Paul to do.

15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:15-20


Repent is God calling those who are His enemies, out of datkness into His marvelous light, to be His sons.


Repent is about being transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God.

It's about changing who you serve, as your Lord.


The Gospel of the kingdom is about changing the kingdom your are in, by changing the lord you serve.


The Gospel is God's call to humanity, to "come out of hiding", in darkness, and to come into the light, the kingdom of light.




JLB

 

[Senior]

I find the better language to be 'endurance' or 'perseverance' to the end. Traditionally, this has been called perseverance of the saints and is supported by Matt 24:13 (ESV), 'The one who endures to the end will be saved'.

Yes, God does everything He can to help BACs persevere
until the end of their lives ... without violating their free will.
Because He did not create any robots.
This includes His angels, and you know what happened
to 1/3 of them! ... or do you?

 

[Truthfrees]

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is:
Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Repent is the command of the Gospel.
Repent means to turn to God.
If you are called to turn to God, then by default you are called to turn from Satan as your lord.
The way that we obey the Gospel command to repent is to confess Jesus as Lord.
This is what grants the believer/obeyer of the Gospel, the forgiveness of sins.
The way we are granted the forgiveness of sins, is by repenting, which means turning away from Satan and his kingdom, and turning to God, by confessing Jesus as Lord.
This is plainly what the Lord Jesus Christ taught to and commissioned Paul to do.
15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:15-20
Repent is God calling those who are His enemies, out of datkness into His marvelous light, to be His sons.
Repent is about being transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God.
It's about changing who you serve, as your Lord.
The Gospel of the kingdom is about changing the kingdom your are in, by changing the lord you serve.
The Gospel is God's call to humanity, to "come out of hiding", in darkness, and to come into the light, the kingdom of light.
JLB

actually the greek word is metamnous - change your mind

this is kinda cool because God tells us to CHANGE OUR MIND - about what? - imo God wants us to change our mind about who is right and who is wrong - God is right and we are wrong - and so we should start listening to God

i also find it interesting that God tells us to CHANGE OUR MIND because He knows that our actions will follow our mind

trying to change our actions when our mind has not changed is a frustrating endeavor

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Salvation is selfishly hoped for, for ourselves. And just as selfishlyly pushed on others so to save them. But then there's the worry. Who's right and who's wrong. In the war of ideas, where people fight for their beliefs, anyone can fight on the wrong side and not even know it.

My grandma and my uncle have tried to save my dad. And I selfishly hope that he is saved even though He is not Christian. My hope, as small as it is is that God is more trustworthy then our understanding. That He is greater and more able to save us then our being right in our doctrine. More then that though. This idea requires us to seek God and to strive for Him.

That's where this idea gets dicey, and the rationale to hope that we are all saved even if we don't believe moves into the territory of allowing and accepting very wrong beliefs because we want to believe the ones we love are going to be ok. I think there's a reason why God had the death penalty to false prophets in His laws to Israel.

On the other side of the coin is where we divide our beliefs up to say one kind of Christian is saved and another is not. On that level it seems even less reliable. We'd all need to be scholars to have any hope of being saved.

In the end, the only way I think if can be is of we trust God, seek Him, and try our best from there. No more rationalization of how and why we are saved, if indeed we are saved, because our rationalizations aren't God's rationalizations. Our thoughts aren't His. Trust in Him, even if we don't know the reasons or the outcomes of our fate.

After that we can move towards what are real doctrines from God and which ones aren't. Be each other's foundation if we can, and help each other be right with God. Then just hope and trust that God can help us on our journey and not leave us lost.

That's where I leave my hope. For my dad who's a different faith but loves God, and for so many others I know. It has to be in God's hands.

 

[JLB]

actually the greek word is metamnous - change your mind

this is kinda cool because God tells us to CHANGE OUR MIND - about what? - imo God wants us to change our mind about who is right and who is wrong - God is right and we are wrong - and so we should start listening to God

i also find it interesting that God tells us to CHANGE OUR MIND because He know that our actions will follow our mind

trying to change our actions when our mind has not changed is a frustrating endeavor

That may be the modern day definition of repent.


The scripture shows us what Jesus taught Paul.


Jesus speaking to Paul on the road to Damascus -


But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ Acts 26:16-18



Paul’s response to King Agrippa -


“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:19-20



JLB