Bible Study Beyond Sunday: What Brought Joseph and Mary to Bethlehem? Was There Really a Census?

[Papyrus_dust]

"Defending the faith means clearing Christ and the Bible of false charges when they arise. When others cast doubt on the historical accuracy of Bible events, ....."
I excerpted the quoted remarks above from the second paragraph of the article to presuppose any outcry that this article was questioning the accuracy of scripture.
A great and seasonal timely article that helps in our spiritual war chest when encountering any challenge to the beginnings of our reason for celebrating this season. God, Jesus, Mary and Joseph.
The full , very short, Bible Study article http://www.biblestudytools.com/bibl...lehem-was-there-really-a-census-11661590.html


I posted this in this Bible Study forum so that we can discuss and not debate, per the rules mention We can share and learn from one another in the love and peace of Christ. As the Berean Jews did as taught in Acts 17:11.

I look forward to our sharing together in this holy day season.

 

[for_his_glory]

Luke clears this up pretty well I think

Luke 2:
1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. 2 (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) 3 And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city. 4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David 5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. 6 And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. 7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Luke clears this up pretty well I think

Luke 2:
1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. 2 (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) 3 And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city. 4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David 5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. 6 And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. 7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

Yes, Luke 2 is in the full article linked under, "Focus Bible Passage".
Thanks for excerpting that.

 

[Jim Parker]

"Defending the faith means clearing Christ and the Bible of false charges when they arise. When others cast doubt on the historical accuracy of Bible events, ....."
I excerpted the quoted remarks above from the second paragraph of the article to presuppose any outcry that this article was questioning the accuracy of scripture.
A great and seasonal timely article that helps in our spiritual war chest when encountering any challenge to the beginnings of our reason for celebrating this season. God, Jesus, Mary and Joseph.
The full , very short, Bible Study article http://www.biblestudytools.com/bibl...lehem-was-there-really-a-census-11661590.html
I posted this in this Bible Study forum so that we can discuss and not debate, per the rules mention We can share and learn from one another in the love and peace of Christ. As the Berean Jews did as taught in Acts 17:11.
I look forward to our sharing together in this holy day season.

From Wikipedia:
The Census of Quirinius was a census of Judaea taken by Publius Sulpicius Quirinius, Roman governor of Syria, upon the imposition of direct Roman rule in AD 6.[1] The author of the Gospel of Luke uses it as the narrative means to establish the birth of Jesus (Luke 2:1-5),[2] but Luke places the census within the reign of Herod the Great, who died 10 years earlier in 4 BC.[3] No satisfactory explanation of the contradiction seems possible on the basis of present knowledge,[4] and most scholars think that the author of the gospel made a mistake.[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Census_of_Quirinius#cite_note-FOOTNOTEBrown197817-5
Notes:
1. Gruen 1996, p.157
2. Edwards 2015, p. 68-69
3. Gruen 1996, p. 156
4. Edwards 2015, p. 71
5. Brown 1978, p. 17

Bibliography
Gruen, Erich S. (1996). "The Expansion of the Empire Under Augustus". In Bowman, Alan K.; Champlin, Edward; Lintott, Andrew. The Cambridge Ancient History. 10. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 9780521264303.

Edwards, James R. (2015). The Gospel of Luke. Eerdmans. ISBN 9780802837356.

Brown, R.E. (1978). An Adult Christ at Christmas: Essays on the Three Biblical Christmas Stories. Liturgical Press. ISBN 9780814609972.

 

[Jim Parker]

Actually, there were three Herods.
So the Wikipedia entry is a bit off.
Herod the Great (73 BC to 4 BC)
Herod Archelaus (4 BC to 6 AD)
Herod Antipas, (before 20 BC – after 39 AD) ruler of Galilee during the time of Jesus' ministry.
So, Luke, while not being precise, was not mistaken.
A contemporary reader would have known to which Herod he was referring.

iakov the fool

 

[brujaq]

Actually, there were three Herods.
So the Wikipedia entry is a bit off.
Herod the Great (73 BC to 4 BC)
Herod Archelaus (4 BC to 6 AD)
Herod Antipas, (before 20 BC – after 39 AD) ruler of Galilee during the time of Jesus' ministry.
So, Luke, while not being precise, was not mistaken.
A contemporary reader would have known to which Herod he was referring.

iakov the fool

Jim , you're pretty knowledgeable .. Would you happen to know where the wise men come from and how long it would have taken them to prepare a caravan and travel to Jerusalem in route to Bethlehem ? I'm asking in regard to Matthew 2:7

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Actually, there were three Herods.
So the Wikipedia entry is a bit off.
Herod the Great (73 BC to 4 BC)
Herod Archelaus (4 BC to 6 AD)
Herod Antipas, (before 20 BC – after 39 AD) ruler of Galilee during the time of Jesus' ministry.
So, Luke, while not being precise, was not mistaken.
A contemporary reader would have known to which Herod he was referring.

iakov the fool

Nice catch. Little late and after I liked it, but nice catch.
Why not make the correction on that Wiki entry? This way vital information and especially given the holy season is available to readers.

 

[Justicewolf]

Good piece for the time of season.
I've heard contentions against the actual census reported in scriptures being a historic point. Namely because of the communications issue and the travel for people who would need to return to their home region in order to be counted. That article is great in light of that argument.

 

[Jim Parker]

Jim , you're pretty knowledgeable ..

Nah!
I just googled it.

Would you happen to know where the wise men come from and how long it would have taken them to prepare a caravan and travel to Jerusalem in route to Bethlehem ?

As I understand it, they may have been Zoroastrian "wise men" from Persia.
It wouldn't take long to prepare a caravan. A week, maybe?

And they didn't show up on Christmas day as our Christmas displays regularly depict.
At Mat 2:16, we are told that Herod had all male children in the area of Bethlehem of age two years or less killed. So the Magi probably showed up 2 years after the birth of Jesus.
Also, Mat 2:11 says "...when they had come into the house, they saw the young Child with Mary His mother...". So Mary, Joseph and Jesus were no longer in a manger but in a house.

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

Why not make the correction on that Wiki entry?

I did.
I don't know if I did it right but, I did it.

iakov the fool

 

[brujaq]

Nah!
I just googled it.

As I understand it, they may have been Zoroastrian "wise men" from Persia.
It wouldn't take long to prepare a caravan. A week, maybe?

And they didn't show up on Christmas day as our Christmas displays regularly depict.
At Mat 2:16, we are told that Herod had all male children in the area of Bethlehem of age two years or less killed. So the Magi probably showed up 2 years after the birth of Jesus.
Also, Mat 2:11 says "...when they had come into the house, they saw the young Child with Mary His mother...". So Mary, Joseph and Jesus were no longer in a manger but in a house.

iakov the fool

Thanx Jim, my thoughts were maybe a little longer for the magi to set their affairs in order , they didn't know where they were headed per se .. And the shepherds in the fields when the heavenly host appeared to them announcing Jesus birth I would think was big news and Bethlehem was only a few miles from Jerusalem meaning word could have traveled to Herod pretty quick .. Just thinking out loud and fun to consider .. I'm thinking possibly maybe a year or more also that there were only 3 wise men is an assumption , imo there could have been a caravan of a dozen or more and with servants and as far away as from china .. They followed the star and I wouldn't think they were in a great hurry .. jus sayin

 

[atpollard]

There is a tradition that the Wise Men were from the school started by Daniel in Babylon (Persia).