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Bishops/Elder/Pastors required to be married?

Should a BISHOP/ ELDER / PASTOR be married?

  • I don't think it matters, I just Love Jesus.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Why do you bring this up?

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    7

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Rebecka said:
And by the example of Paul, who was certainly able to travel as he did unencumbered by a family, became the example of later development of a discipline of the Church that all of the clergy will remain remarried,
Paul was at one time a Pharisee and in order to be a member of the Sanhedrin, a man had to be married, so it seems to students of the Bible that Saul's wife died.

Asls Paul said in

1 Corinthians 9:5 "Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?"

And there you have it, Bill. Paul and Peter were all for marriage.

Maybe I'm missing it, but no where in that particular passage do I see where Paul is for marriage. We know that Peter was married, but no where is there any recording of Saul's (Paul's) marriage or any hint toward his having a wife.
 
In the year 1095, there was an escalation of brutal force against married priests and their families. Pope Urban II ordered that married priests who ignored the celibacy laws be imprisoned for the good of their souls. He had the wives and children of those married priests sold into slavery, and the money went to church coffers.22

The effort to consolidate church power in the medieval hierarchy and to seize the land assets the married priest families saw its victory in 1139. The legislation that effectively ended optional celibacy for priests came from the Second Lateran Council under Pope Innocent II.23 The true motivation for these laws was the desire to acquire land throughout Europe and strengthen the papal power base. The laws demanding mandatory celibacy for priests used the language of purity and holiness, but their true intent was to solidify control over the lower clergy and eliminate any challenge to the political objectives of the medieval hierarchy.
*from Gary's link... http://www.rentapriest.com/thirtynine_popes.htm

An now for the rest of the story...

It was fairly common for the offspring of priests not to follow in their father's footsteps. I mean by that, they would not become priests, nuns, whatever. But the land that belonged to the family (and considered part of the church) would be inherited by the very same offspring. When that happened, the land would no longer be part of the Church. The RCC was losing lots of land in this manner, so they had to put a stop to it. The way they did that was to require all future priest to take a vow of celibacy, in effect, fordibbing them to marry. Any land at the time of their death would then remain in the hands of the Church.
 
But Peter, had he remained at Antioch, could have been bishop of that city, but he journeyed on to Rome where he became the first bishop of Rome.

You have NO PRoof of this!...The Word teaches us the 12, stayed as Apostles to the JEWS. Peter was not in Antioch, but HE WAS IN Jeruselem. Read the BOOK of Acts. Paul went to and Established Rome, Not Peter...
 
Unity said:
Rebecka said:
And by the example of Paul, who was certainly able to travel as he did unencumbered by a family, became the example of later development of a discipline of the Church that all of the clergy will remain remarried,
Paul was at one time a Pharisee and in order to be a member of the Sanhedrin, a man had to be married, so it seems to students of the Bible that Saul's wife died.

Asls Paul said in

1 Corinthians 9:5 "Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?"

And there you have it, Bill. Paul and Peter were all for marriage.

I believe that you have not read the post. Paul had to have been married because of his being a pharisee and being potential material for the sanhedrin!!

Maybe I'm missing it, but no where in that particular passage do I see where Paul is for marriage. We know that Peter was married, but no where is there any recording of Saul's (Paul's) marriage or any hint toward his having a wife.
 
I believe that you have not read the post. Paul had to have been married because of his being a pharisee and being potential material for the sanhedrin!!

Maybe I'm missing it, but no where in that particular passage do I see where Paul is for marriage. We know that Peter was married, but no where is there any recording of Saul's (Paul's) marriage or any hint toward his having a wife
Paul clearly stated in that passage.."Have WE not power to lead about a wife?" why didn't he say "they" and he mentioned Cephas or Peter and the other apostles..It is quite clear they were for marriage 100%

Paul is talking to Agrippa in Acts26:9,10 and said;

"I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having recieved authority from the chief priests, and when they were put to death, I gave my voice to it."

How did he give his voice, if not in a VOTE.
 
evanman said:
Unity said:
Rebecka said:
And by the example of Paul, who was certainly able to travel as he did unencumbered by a family, became the example of later development of a discipline of the Church that all of the clergy will remain remarried,
Paul was at one time a Pharisee and in order to be a member of the Sanhedrin, a man had to be married, so it seems to students of the Bible that Saul's wife died.

Asls Paul said in

1 Corinthians 9:5 "Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?"

And there you have it, Bill. Paul and Peter were all for marriage.

I believe that you have not read the post. Paul had to have been married because of his being a pharisee and being potential material for the sanhedrin!!

Maybe I'm missing it, but no where in that particular passage do I see where Paul is for marriage. We know that Peter was married, but no where is there any recording of Saul's (Paul's) marriage or any hint toward his having a wife.

evan you quoted my post, but I did not see a response. Did I miss something?
 
Monkey Del said:
But Peter, had he remained at Antioch, could have been bishop of that city, but he journeyed on to Rome where he became the first bishop of Rome.

You have NO PRoof of this!...The Word teaches us the 12, stayed as Apostles to the JEWS. Peter was not in Antioch, but HE WAS IN Jeruselem. Read the BOOK of Acts. Paul went to and Established Rome, Not Peter...

Sir, I was being theoretical! However, some think that Peter may have passed through! He never went to Constantnople either, but if he did, then he would have become bishop of the city........and there would be the Holy See today! :)

As for who "established" Rome is of no consiquence. All the evidence is, Peter became it's first bishop.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Peter_R ... idency.asp

God bless,

PAX

Bill+†+


Rome has spoken, case is closed.

Derived from Augustine's famous Sermon.
 
What's all this nonsense about Paul not being married!

Here's the clear reference:

2 Corinthians 12:7
To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me.

[Just kidding, of course! However, my wife does a great job of keeping me from becoming conceited.]
 
Monkey Del said:
Should a BISHOP/ ELDER / PASTOR be married?

God's word says it is required to be married, What say you?


Paul wasn't married.How would you get around that?
I look at Paul and see a leader of the early church.
 
Paul was never a bishop. He was an Apostle. Different Office. Examples :
2 Tim 1:11: Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
Acts 13:
1: Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
2: As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

Acts 9:15: But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16: For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

Acts 26:16: But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17: Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18: To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.


At no point does it ever say Paul was a Bishop/Pastor/Elder.



Bishops :

Titus 1:
5: For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
6: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7: For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8: But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
9: Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.


I ask again how do you get around that? Why do you Ignore Titus and Tim?
 
Monkey Del said:
Paul was never a bishop. He was an Apostle. Different Office. Examples :
2 Tim 1:11: Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
Acts 13:
1: Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
2: As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

Acts 9:15: But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16: For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

Acts 26:16: But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17: Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18: To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.


At no point does it ever say Paul was a Bishop/Pastor/Elder.



Bishops :

Titus 1:
5: For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
6: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7: For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8: But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
9: Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.


I ask again how do you get around that? Why do you Ignore Titus and Tim?





I see what your saying.Since Paul wasn't the leader of a church
he wasn't bound be the "rules"....Right?
 
SavedSinner said:
I see what your saying.Since Paul wasn't the leader of a church
he wasn't bound be the "rules"....Right?

No. Those "rules" ...(qualifications)did not apply to him. They applied to Pastors and the qualifications of a deacon apply solely to a deacon.



Ephesians : 4:"11": And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

"12": For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Apostles are not the same as Pastors (which is the same thing as a Elder/Bishop).

If they were the same thing....he would not have mentioned them together as seperate things.
 
The Apostle Paul was a ONE OF A KIND, called By Jesus himself, having seen him with his own eyes.
 
Thanks Monkey Del.I knew what you meant.I just couldn't
get the thought from my head to my fingers.May have to
get the filter replaced. :lol:
 
:biggrin :) :biggrin :) and LOL with SavedSinner "I just couldn't get the thought from my head to my fingers. May have to get the filter replaced!" Happens often with me as well... never thought about the filter being my problem, but now that I think about it, it makes sense

.... or does it? Seems like the filter is not really working for me this morning either!
 
Monkey Del said:
Should a BISHOP/ ELDER / PASTOR be married?

God's word says it is required to be married, What say you?



I say that's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. :roll:
 
Re: Roman Catholic errors

Gary_Bee said:
There is no Scriptural requirement for a minister or priest to be unmarried. Again, that is only Roman Catholic "Church" dogma with no Scriptural basis.

If they allowed married priests (which is Scriptural), we probably would not have as many Roman Catholic child molesting cases!


Hi Gar, That is NOT "dogma" only Church discipline. It can be changed with the stroke of a pen .
 
Rebecka said:
T.

Jesus said men don't light candles to place them under bushels, but to give light to all that are in the house. The RCC gives NO light to anyone, except in the minds of catholics.
ONLY catholics believe the pope, that is all. His so called authority is extremely limited to the vatican, but the world at large doesn't see him as serious or necessary.

Jesus told the people, "Whether is it easier to say, thy sins be forgive thee or take up your bed and walk?"

Jesus was showing them he had POWER AND AUTHORITY, but he spoke as man never spake, but the pope is simply full of hot air.

To Jesus, forgiving sins and healing a terminally ill man were the same thing.

The pope claims authority, but it is without proof.

He is like the queen of England, a tradition which is patronized daily, with no serious responsibility attached to him.

Literally millions and millions of people are saved and know Jesus Christ in a personal way and all without the so called authority of the RCC.

Millions are healed and set free by God's mighty power each day all in the Protestant churches.

All the great songs of the church are written by Protestants.

The RCC claimed at one time to not recognize marriage outside of the RCC, but did it matter, or have any authority? No because the church rolls on and on and the RCC has nothing to do with anything except what involves CATHOLICS.

If the pope had any authority in the least, he would do these things;

1.walk on water
2.raise the dead
3.open blind eyes
4.heal lepers
5.never die
6.curse fig trees
7.forgive sins


Marriage is honorable in all and the bed undefiled.

Bill, you're a nice guy, but in serious error about the Bible.



A bishop must be the husband of one wife, and BLAMELESS
and the word "blameless" pretty much leaves everyone of the priests out.


There you go again, Becks! :roll: The Roman Catholic Church does not FORBID anyone to get married. It is a Church discipline. If you can follow that, then be a Priest. Nobody is coercing anyone. It's an obligation that is freely chosen.
Far as Church music is concerned, say WHAT? :o Some of the greatest music ever composed was for the Mass! Catholic Church music has always been lauded for centuries. In no way can you compare the glorious music of Palestrina with some of these cornfield ditties that come down off a screen in some of the se Charismatic places and repeated over and over ad nauseam. The music of the Eastern Church, Anglican Church and the Lutheran is also unequalled. Can you dare to compare any of that with "Jesus Wants Me For a Sunbeam," or some other trite crap that passes for music? Or Christian---you should excuse the expression---rap?
You say here that none of the Priests are blameless? NONE OF THEM? See, this is just an excuse for intolerance, Becks. You're saying all Priests are guilty of some sort of sexual hanky-panky. With that line of reasoning, all Pentecostals are a bunch of dumb hillbillies that barely passed the 6th grade. fact is, only a small percentage of Priests are involved in the sexual scandals. I grew up around Priests, worked in rectories, served the altar, sang in choirs, worked in sacristies, went to seminary and was NEVER approached, and neitherv were any of my classmates. That sort of thing didn't go on. We were advised AGAINST "p.f.'s"---particular friendships---hanging around with one person all the time. That's why we were a community.
C'mon, becks, be for real.
 
Requirements for an elder

Requirement for an elder/bishop and deacon

Bill:
"Where is this "authority" in your particular Church community, Gary?

Gary: Simple Bill. The Word of God is our authority. We find the requirement for an elder/bishop in Scripture:



No requirement for celibacy. In fact, the Scripture points more towards married men.



Again, no requirement for celibacy. In fact, the Scripture again points more towards married men with children.
The scriptures you quoted, 1 Timothy 3:1-13 or Titus 1:5-9 I do not see that they say that it's a commandment or a necessity that a man who wants to be an Elder or a Deacon he must be married. It looks to me that these scriptures just mean that if the man is married he should only be married to one wife.
 
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