What exactly is that verse talking about? I think it means putting your entire focus on God but I'm not entirely sure.
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Bible Study Blind Yourselves So You Can't See Anything
- Thread starter HeIsRisen2018
- Start date
Luminous_Rose
CF Ambassador
Where might this verse be found?
New Day Coming
Member
Is it a verse in "The Message"?!
Isaiah 29:9 Yes it is the Message Bible so it's worded a bit differently so I can read it and understand it, but I don't really understand that particular verse a hundred percent.
New Day Coming
Member
The chapter in context sometimes helps...
To me it looks like a prophecy against the Jews who reject their Messiah, and a future promise that one day God will intervene in such a way as their eyes are opened.
Isaiah 29 New King James Version (NKJV)
Woe to Jerusalem
29 “Woe to [a]Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt!
Add year to year;
Let feasts come around.
2 Yet I will distress Ariel;
There shall be heaviness and sorrow,
And it shall be to Me as Ariel.
3 I will encamp against you all around,
I will lay siege against you with a mound,
And I will raise siegeworks against you.
4 You shall be brought down,
You shall speak out of the ground;
Your speech shall be low, out of the dust;
Your voice shall be like a medium’s,out of the ground;
And your speech shall whisper out of the dust.
5 “Moreover the multitude of your foes
Shall be like fine dust,
And the multitude of the terrible ones
Like chaff that passes away;
Yes, it shall be in an instant, suddenly.
6 You will be punished by the Lord of hosts
With thunder and earthquake and great noise,
With storm and tempest
And the flame of devouring fire.
7 The multitude of all the nations who fight against [b]Ariel,
Even all who fight against her and her fortress,
And distress her,
Shall be as a dream of a night vision.
8 It shall even be as when a hungry man dreams,
And look—he eats;
But he awakes, and his soul is still empty;
Or as when a thirsty man dreams,
And look—he drinks;
But he awakes, and indeed he is faint,
And his soul still craves:
So the multitude of all the nations shall be,
Who fight against Mount Zion.”
The Blindness of Disobedience
9 Pause and wonder!
Blind yourselves and be blind!
They are drunk, but not with wine;
They stagger, but not with intoxicating drink.
10 For the Lord has poured out on you
The spirit of deep sleep,
And has closed your eyes, namely, the prophets;
And He has covered your heads, namely, the seers.
11 The whole vision has become to you like the words of a [c]book that is sealed, which men deliver to one who is literate, saying, “Read this, please.”
And he says, “I cannot, for it is sealed.”
12 Then the book is delivered to one who [d]is illiterate, saying, “Read this, please.”
And he says, “I am not literate.”
13 Therefore the Lord said:
“Inasmuch as these people draw near with their mouths
And honor Me with their lips,
But have removed their hearts far from Me,
And their fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men,
14 Therefore, behold, I will again do a marvelous work
Among this people,
A marvelous work and a wonder;
For the wisdom of their wise men shall perish,
And the understanding of their prudent men shall be hidden.”
15 Woe to those who seek deep to hide their counsel far from the Lord,
And their works are in the dark;
They say, “Who sees us?” and, “Who knows us?”
16 Surely you have things turned around!
Shall the potter be esteemed as the clay;
For shall the thing made say of him who made it,
“He did not make me”?
Or shall the thing formed say of him who formed it,
“He has no understanding”?
Future Recovery of Wisdom
17 Is it not yet a very little while
Till Lebanon shall be turned into a fruitful field,
And the fruitful field be esteemed as a forest?
18 In that day the deaf shall hear the words of the book,
And the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity and out of darkness.
19 The humble also shall increase their joy in the Lord,
And the poor among men shall rejoice
In the Holy One of Israel.
20 For the [e]terrible one is brought to nothing,
The scornful one is consumed,
And all who watch for iniquity are cut off—
21 Who make a man an offender by a word,
And lay a snare for him who reproves in the gate,
And turn aside the just by empty words.
22 Therefore thus says the Lord, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob:
“Jacob shall not now be ashamed,
Nor shall his face now grow pale;
23 But when he sees his children,
The work of My hands, in his midst,
They will hallow My name,
And hallow the Holy One of Jacob,
And fear the God of Israel.
24 These also who erred in spirit will come to understanding,
And those who complained will learn doctrine.”
To me it looks like a prophecy against the Jews who reject their Messiah, and a future promise that one day God will intervene in such a way as their eyes are opened.
Isaiah 29 New King James Version (NKJV)
Woe to Jerusalem
29 “Woe to [a]Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt!
Add year to year;
Let feasts come around.
2 Yet I will distress Ariel;
There shall be heaviness and sorrow,
And it shall be to Me as Ariel.
3 I will encamp against you all around,
I will lay siege against you with a mound,
And I will raise siegeworks against you.
4 You shall be brought down,
You shall speak out of the ground;
Your speech shall be low, out of the dust;
Your voice shall be like a medium’s,out of the ground;
And your speech shall whisper out of the dust.
5 “Moreover the multitude of your foes
Shall be like fine dust,
And the multitude of the terrible ones
Like chaff that passes away;
Yes, it shall be in an instant, suddenly.
6 You will be punished by the Lord of hosts
With thunder and earthquake and great noise,
With storm and tempest
And the flame of devouring fire.
7 The multitude of all the nations who fight against [b]Ariel,
Even all who fight against her and her fortress,
And distress her,
Shall be as a dream of a night vision.
8 It shall even be as when a hungry man dreams,
And look—he eats;
But he awakes, and his soul is still empty;
Or as when a thirsty man dreams,
And look—he drinks;
But he awakes, and indeed he is faint,
And his soul still craves:
So the multitude of all the nations shall be,
Who fight against Mount Zion.”
The Blindness of Disobedience
9 Pause and wonder!
Blind yourselves and be blind!
They are drunk, but not with wine;
They stagger, but not with intoxicating drink.
10 For the Lord has poured out on you
The spirit of deep sleep,
And has closed your eyes, namely, the prophets;
And He has covered your heads, namely, the seers.
11 The whole vision has become to you like the words of a [c]book that is sealed, which men deliver to one who is literate, saying, “Read this, please.”
And he says, “I cannot, for it is sealed.”
12 Then the book is delivered to one who [d]is illiterate, saying, “Read this, please.”
And he says, “I am not literate.”
13 Therefore the Lord said:
“Inasmuch as these people draw near with their mouths
And honor Me with their lips,
But have removed their hearts far from Me,
And their fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men,
14 Therefore, behold, I will again do a marvelous work
Among this people,
A marvelous work and a wonder;
For the wisdom of their wise men shall perish,
And the understanding of their prudent men shall be hidden.”
15 Woe to those who seek deep to hide their counsel far from the Lord,
And their works are in the dark;
They say, “Who sees us?” and, “Who knows us?”
16 Surely you have things turned around!
Shall the potter be esteemed as the clay;
For shall the thing made say of him who made it,
“He did not make me”?
Or shall the thing formed say of him who formed it,
“He has no understanding”?
Future Recovery of Wisdom
17 Is it not yet a very little while
Till Lebanon shall be turned into a fruitful field,
And the fruitful field be esteemed as a forest?
18 In that day the deaf shall hear the words of the book,
And the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity and out of darkness.
19 The humble also shall increase their joy in the Lord,
And the poor among men shall rejoice
In the Holy One of Israel.
20 For the [e]terrible one is brought to nothing,
The scornful one is consumed,
And all who watch for iniquity are cut off—
21 Who make a man an offender by a word,
And lay a snare for him who reproves in the gate,
And turn aside the just by empty words.
22 Therefore thus says the Lord, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob:
“Jacob shall not now be ashamed,
Nor shall his face now grow pale;
23 But when he sees his children,
The work of My hands, in his midst,
They will hallow My name,
And hallow the Holy One of Jacob,
And fear the God of Israel.
24 These also who erred in spirit will come to understanding,
And those who complained will learn doctrine.”
Umm,.. just so you know I can't understand the New King James version at all so a huge thank you to jasonc for clearing that up for me!
jasonc
Member
the Messiah came and that verse is quoted in the Gospel, its not the only place,Umm,.. just so you know I can't understand the New King James version at all so a huge thank you to jasonc for clearing that up for me!
lest at anytime they hear and see. God said fine, you want to be blind, I will give you that and plug your ears and also blind your eyes.
Razeontherock
Member
Seems related to being turned over to a reprobate mind?
Razeontherock
Member
Your edition of MSG might have verse markings? Mine does not, and I think that helps. When I try to find a certain passage it forces me to compare it to another version, which makes me take in the context of the chapter, as NDC pointed out. This gives me a much better idea of what's being said, and also why Eugene Peterson chose to put it the way he did.
This again points out that no one version is "best," and they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Ancient Hebrew is just too different from modern English for any possible translation to convey all the meaning well. There is always more to learn ...
Not to mention how our understanding of the words and phrases used may differ from ancient peoples.
Razeontherock
Member
Oh absolutely! That is very much part of what I'm saying; even if we could translate every mark from an original scroll into English correctly, which we can't -
we'd STILL have substantial difference from what the author intended, and what the original audience understood.
An example of this I like to use is to suppose an archeologist some 3,000 years from now digs up a newspaper headline that reads "Seahawks beat Eagles." They would get entirely the wrong idea if they knew nothing of our NFL
ezrider
Member
Isaiah 29:9
Stay yourselves, and wonder;
cry ye out, and cry:
they are drunken, but not with wine;
they stagger, but not with strong drink.
This was a prophecy concerning the pouring out of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost.
Acts 2:12-18
And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Joel 2:28-29
And it shall come to pass afterward,
that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh;
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
your old men shall dream dreams,
your young men shall see visions:
And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids
in those days will I pour out my spirit.
Isaiah 29:9-10
Stay yourselves, and wonder;
cry ye out, and cry:
they are drunken, but not with wine;
they stagger, but not with strong drink.
For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep,
and hath closed your eyes:
the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
The Lord has poured upon you the spirit of a deep sleep:
If we look at Adam and Eve, then we should understand that the deep sleep is part of the process of the new creation.
Genesis 2:21-22
And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God,
for no one understands him (1 Co 14:2 NKJV).
Despite this apostolic truth, Luke insists
that everyone heard them speak in his own language (Acts 2:6 NKJV).
.
New Day Coming
Member
So did the miracle happen in the mouth of the speakers or the ears of the hearers?
What miracle?
The apostolic word of God refutes Luke's account.
First tongues are spoken to God
and no one understands tongues, but God.
.
New Day Coming
Member
Well, I guess that's one opinion. If you believe that tongues must be someone talking in fluent Farsi or some other language, you would have to conclude that one perspective was incorrect.
Roger Price (Bible teacher) was at university praying in tongues in his room. To him it sounded like his normal tongues, but through the paper thin walls the Sudanese student in the next room heard what he thought was another Sudanese man in Rogers room sharing the Gospel. He came round and asked Roger where the guy had gone!
*P.s. I notice you describe yourself as an "Apostolic Canon Christian" by which I suppose that you reject the writings of anyone who was not an "Apostle". Which books of the NT do you reject by this criteria?
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jasonc
Member
The prophets ,the false ones ,that were killed in the exile,not quite as you say, false prophets ,the key
Razeontherock
Member
Perhaps there is more nuance than you have addressed here?
Razeontherock
Member
Both!