I personally like Vince Young better than Leinart but he may not come out this year. Leinart makes me nervous wearing that knee brace and I've always contended that he's not the same caliber QB as Carson Palmer was. We do need an upgrade on our line, but I'd like to see what Frye can do behind it before we pass on better players in the draft. The line play is inconsistent but Dilfer isn't getting rid of the ball well at times which is causing part of the problems. Whether its Dilfer, play selection or WRs not getting open, we will and are going to need a QB that can move around and buy some time. Whether Frye is that man or not only time will tell. But hopefully time tells before we pass on mobile QB's in the draft.
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Browns backers
- Thread starter Scott
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Vince Young kind of reminds me of Randal Cunningham. He would need to work on speeding up his release. If he fixes that, he's in business. I liked Palmer better than Leinart too.
Every play that I watch Dilfer struggle with, I can't help but think that Frye would have scrambled out of trouble and made a play. Frye looks down field more, too. I think that the receivers are getting open. Edwards was open all day against Pac-Man, but Dilfer either couldn't, or wouldn't get him the ball. Talk about a mismatch that was never exposed. BTW, I loved that hit on Pac-Man by Droughns. That hit, and the whole game, may have sealed his status as a fan favorite.
We may have a shot at beating the Steelers. I have a gut feeling that we win this weekend. A fluke? Maybe. The Steelers got beat by the Patriots, and the Patriots are not that good this year. I Don't think that Ben was carrying them as much as some think. He was a over hyped threat that opened up their running game for them. Even with Dilfer starting, if things break right for us in this game...
Every play that I watch Dilfer struggle with, I can't help but think that Frye would have scrambled out of trouble and made a play. Frye looks down field more, too. I think that the receivers are getting open. Edwards was open all day against Pac-Man, but Dilfer either couldn't, or wouldn't get him the ball. Talk about a mismatch that was never exposed. BTW, I loved that hit on Pac-Man by Droughns. That hit, and the whole game, may have sealed his status as a fan favorite.
We may have a shot at beating the Steelers. I have a gut feeling that we win this weekend. A fluke? Maybe. The Steelers got beat by the Patriots, and the Patriots are not that good this year. I Don't think that Ben was carrying them as much as some think. He was a over hyped threat that opened up their running game for them. Even with Dilfer starting, if things break right for us in this game...
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cubedbee
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Dave... said:
You obviously haven't watched the Steelers play with and without him. The offense has been absolutely nonexistent without Ben at the helm. Ben is a very accurate passer, averages over 10 yards a pass, is excellent when the pocket collapses, is clutch in the 4th quarter, and in case you hadn't noticed has been the highest rated quarterback all year in the league. Batch did absolutely nothing last week. He dinked off a couple short passes, the only time he tried to go long he was intercepted, he has little mobility, he didn't convert a single third down.--the Steelers only won because of two great turnovers by the defense. The Browns definitely have a shot to take out the Steelers this week, but that's only because Batch is starting for Ben. I still think the Steelers will get the job done this week but let's just wait and see what kind of numbers Ben puts up in his game against you later this year.
Ben is definitely better than Batch. I guess my point was that this year the Steelers are featuring their run more than the pass, and if I remember correctly, they were always balanced or slightly favoring the pass. Add to that, the few times I watched them this year they only got about 200 yards through the air in each game, that was with Ben at QB. I think they were protecting Ben with a very conservative game plans.
I like to gage what I think the Browns can do defensively based on what the Patriots did against the Steelers only because we run very similar defenses, though ours is still in the beginners stages. With the injuries that the Patriots have had this year on defense, and still beating the Steelers, it makes the comparison even more interesting.
Bottom line, we won't have a chance unless we can stop their run. If we can slow it down enough and put some points on the board to apply some pressure to the Steelers to score, we might have a chance. The game plan would probably be the same with Ben or Batch, which is kind of what my point was, that they both need to be protected from a situation that would require them to do too much. It's not a bad thing, I still think Ben is going to be a good QB. But I also think that games like last years playoffs revealed that maybe people were puting too much on Ben's shoulders too quickly.
Dave
I like to gage what I think the Browns can do defensively based on what the Patriots did against the Steelers only because we run very similar defenses, though ours is still in the beginners stages. With the injuries that the Patriots have had this year on defense, and still beating the Steelers, it makes the comparison even more interesting.
Bottom line, we won't have a chance unless we can stop their run. If we can slow it down enough and put some points on the board to apply some pressure to the Steelers to score, we might have a chance. The game plan would probably be the same with Ben or Batch, which is kind of what my point was, that they both need to be protected from a situation that would require them to do too much. It's not a bad thing, I still think Ben is going to be a good QB. But I also think that games like last years playoffs revealed that maybe people were puting too much on Ben's shoulders too quickly.
Dave
I agree, I think we can possibly pull an upset or at least cover (+8). The Steelers are a solid team this year but they've suffered a bit in recent weeks with WR's not being 100%. Without Ben they are less than average offensively. Our problem as always will be putting points on the board. The Steeler D is always pretty solid and even moreso at home. The Steelers aren't a desperate team like the Ravens were when we played them so I do have a good feeling about this game. We need to get the ball to Braylon Edwards more than we have been. Our D needs to help out our offense and give us some t/o's and some short fields. If that happens we should be in good shape. Stuff the run and make Batch beat us with his arm, that is and will be our point #1.
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cubedbee
Guest
The steelers have always been a running team. They've run more than any other team in the NFL since Cowher started in '92. Last year they ran 62% of the time.Dave... said:
And the reason Ben doesn't get many yards is that Cowher has always played the "turtle"--once he gets a lead he plays conservative and defensive--running the ball to run out the clock, throwing hardly any passes, relying on the defense to hold the lead. He's always played this way, and it works--he's something like 95-1-1 once he gets more than a 10 point lead. Ben gets a lot of pass calls in the 1st quarter, sometimes two, at which point the Steelers typically have a couple touchdown lead, and Cowher stops calling passes. It's nothing against Ben's ability---when the games our tight he gets many pass calls in the 4th quarter---he has been clutch and Cowher knows he can lead a comeback when necessary.
Gameplan will be very different with Batch. With Ben, the Steelers would come out throwing, especially downfield to Hines Ward, most likely getting scores on their first couple drives and establishing a lead, which they would then proceed to defend the rest of the game. Unless Batch plays vastly better than last week, he just doesn't have the arm to lead the Steelers in a sustained drive, and isn't a deep passer. Instead, the Steelers will come out running with Batch throwing the occasional short pass, the drives will be shorter and sputter out, they'll be settling for more field goals. Ben looked bad in last years playoffs, but he's looked the exact opposite this year--cool, confident, poised, the true Steelers of the leader already in his second year, the top rated QB in the legue, an accurate and long passer who's on a great team and simply isn't required to throw much and put up gaudy stats. Make no mistake though, he's already one of the top 5 QBs in the league and he is going to be the greatest in a few years.
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cubedbee
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That's silly. Let's look at their career regular season stats.Scott said:
Bens 18-1 as a starter. Eli is 7-8.
Ben has completed 64.7% of passes. Eli is at 50.1%.
Ben has averaged 200 yards per game started. Eli is at 190.
Ben has averaged 8.95 yards per attempt. Eli is at 6.27.
Ben has a TD % of 6.5%. Eli is 4.4%
Ben has a Int % of 3.1% Eli is 3.1%
Ben has a rating of 102.5. Eli's is 71.8.
So, on every major statistic, Ben is better except for one where Eli is tied. And Eli is in your top 5 but Ben isn't? Maybe you're just looking at this season?
Ben is 5-1. Eli is 6-3. Advantage Ben.
Ben has 60.8% completion. Eli has 51.6%. Advantage Ben
Ben's averaged 197 per game, Eli 226. Advantage Eli
Ben's averaged 9.1 yards per attempt, Eli 7.02. Avantage Ben
Ben has a TD % of 8.5%, Eli is at 5.4%. Advantage Ben
Ben has a Int % of 1.5%, Eli is at 1.9%. Advantage Ben
Ben has a rating of 112.4, Eli is 84.3. Advantage Ben
So, how exactly is Eli better than Ben again?
I think offensive line play played a big part in how each guy did. I mean look at the G-men last season, they were taking our 2nd string linemen and using them as starters...
: How sad is that when our starters for the past few years haven't even been that great. Secondly, Ben is an efficient QB in a predominantly run offense. Ben's thrown about 130 passes this year, Eli's thrown more than double that. I know Ben has been hurt but come on, thats not even close.If they were to draft again, Eli would still be picked ahead of Ben guaranteed and you know it. Oh, I forgot to put Donovan on that list too. Ask anyone you want, for me if I'm choosing between Eli and Ben to play for my team I'm going with Eli hands down. Taking nothing away from Ben because he is an efficient QB and a good fit for the Steelers, we both know why the Steelers win is because they play solid D and they run the ball well. You are in the minority of people who think Ben is a better QB than Eli, but then again you are biased.
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cubedbee
Guest
The numbers don't lie. It doesn't matter if Ben throws half as much as Eli, he throws it farther, more accurately, and scores more touchdowns. The statistics clearly shows who has been better so far. You can argue that Eli will end up the better QB, and many others might share that opinion, but Ben has performed much better and more consistently than Eli to this point.Scott said:
To who, Rodney Harrison?! Ben's killer to this point has been his consistency in overthrowing his receivers. Its amusing to me that you jump right to the stats when both QB's have only had a few more than one season worth of starts. There are intangibles that most of us can see which seperate both QB's from each other. Honestly, do you really think very many team (if any) would pass up Eli and take Ben if they had to do the 2004 draft over again?! You're darn right they wouldn't. Scouting involves much more than stat crunching, anyone with an eye for talent can see those things that make a player special. Eli has much more of those intangibles than I've seen from Ben, thats not to say Ben isn't any good... he's just no Eli Manning. Ask Colin Cowherd, he'll tell you it like it is...
: .I think your biggest mistake is that you are looking at everything through the filter of a won/loss record.
Do you play fantasy football at all, I guarantee Eli is a more sought after player than Ben. There goes those stats you love so much.
I understand Trent being upset that things are probably moving faster than he had planned, but i'm not sure how he can complain based on his overall performance this year. He had to know that 13 points a game on average was not going to hold the job for him.
Our defense continues to shock me. Plus the decline of NE's defense makes me wonder...We may have one of the better coaches in the league. I wish he were about ten years younger.
Our defense continues to shock me. Plus the decline of NE's defense makes me wonder...We may have one of the better coaches in the league. I wish he were about ten years younger.
The problem with Trent is that he thinks he can still be "thee" guy. He's not willing to acknowledge the teams need to fill the future void at QB and his troubles with consistency. Frye looked pretty good except for the pick and shown he has more value in the pocket than Dilfer because he can move around. Most importantly we were getting the ball to Edwards. Its time for him to be the #2 guy regardless of how Northcutt takes it. He needs to be on the field as much as possible and I'm pretty excited about the possibility of KW2, Edwards, Bryant, Droughns and Frye all being on the field at the same time next season. If we get Frye 2 or 3 games under his belt we can most definitely get an OL in that first round.
Yeah, Charlie is looking like the franchise QB we've been looking for so far. However, he's been taking a lot of shots and durability could eventually become a concern. Offensive line, LB's, Nose Tackle, & CB's are our biggest needs.
I was pretty sure we'd go into Oakland this week and win but now the Raiders have said Collins is back in the lineup which will make the game more competitive. I know we need to lose a few more games but I think we're playing well enough to win a couple (Raiders and Ravens) and hopefully play the Steelers tough. I'd like to see Frisman Jackson on the field a little more because I think he's a better complimant to Bryant than Northcutt is. I don't expect the team to lay down like Kris Brown and the Texans did.
I was pretty sure we'd go into Oakland this week and win but now the Raiders have said Collins is back in the lineup which will make the game more competitive. I know we need to lose a few more games but I think we're playing well enough to win a couple (Raiders and Ravens) and hopefully play the Steelers tough. I'd like to see Frisman Jackson on the field a little more because I think he's a better complimant to Bryant than Northcutt is. I don't expect the team to lay down like Kris Brown and the Texans did.
As hard as it is for me to admit it, Sean Salsbury was right when he said in 2003 that this franchise is going to pick up where the Bungals left off before Marvin Lewis. All the signs are there, number #1 draft pick bombs (injuries and busts), and constant controversies coming into every season. The Bucs of the 80's, Bengals of the 90's and the Browns of the New Millenium. Is there any end in sight?
Now compare the job Nick Saban has done with the Dolphins. They really didn't make any big upgrades playerwise in the off-season. They really don't have a franchise QB. Ricky Williams didn't pick up where he left off. Their secondary lost some key guys and yet they are finishing off this season on fire. Here we can't even show up against our biggest rival at home. I knew we'd lose to the Steelers because they had to win that game but I atleast thought we'd push them a little bit. With the way the Ravens have been playing lately I'm wondering if we'll put any points on the board this week either. I'm thinking the only thing thats going to make me smile during tomorrow's game is news that Billick is going to be back to wreck another season for the them next year. I'm hearing the "mistake by the lake" insults again... :x
Now compare the job Nick Saban has done with the Dolphins. They really didn't make any big upgrades playerwise in the off-season. They really don't have a franchise QB. Ricky Williams didn't pick up where he left off. Their secondary lost some key guys and yet they are finishing off this season on fire. Here we can't even show up against our biggest rival at home. I knew we'd lose to the Steelers because they had to win that game but I atleast thought we'd push them a little bit. With the way the Ravens have been playing lately I'm wondering if we'll put any points on the board this week either. I'm thinking the only thing thats going to make me smile during tomorrow's game is news that Billick is going to be back to wreck another season for the them next year. I'm hearing the "mistake by the lake" insults again... :x