Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by JM, Jan 13, 2004.
Is it a sin if your country says it's legal?
A sin? Well, burning CDs itself is not wrong or immoral. Its the information on them. If you do not have the owner's permission to copy his material and have not been granted permission to copy or purchased the data, then it is theft. But the question is too general for me to vote on as it is.
and the can of worms has officially been opened.... :
I vote yes, and I've not a lot of time right now to state why, but in my opinion, it is a sin.....just take the basic definition of stealing..."To take (the property of another) without right or permission"....unless the artist has given their consent, it's stealing. (IMO)
More to follow, when time allows.
But burning CDs in and of itself is not immoral. If you're making copies of your own text documents, or moving your own digital pictures, or anything of that nature, its not theft, not immoral, not sin, and yet its burning CDs. The question is too broad.
True....I was assuming (I know, shame on me : ) that he was referring to music that you yourself did not create based on where he said
just before starting this thread. sorry... :
Who decides who owns the rights on music? If its you government who decides and they decide that it's legal, is it a sin to copy the music? Why wasn't this an issue in the 80's and early 90's when people were making tape copies of music? It's never been an issue in Canada, if you're not making money off it, it's legal. 8)
yes. There are a lot of things that are legal that are still sins....(one example would be same sex marriages in some states, but that's another topic)...
Well, it's probably never been as big of an issue, for a lot of reasons. One being quality. I can burn a cd and it sound almost identical to the original...I can't say the same for most tapes. That makes it a lot more appealing.....which means a lot more people do it...which means the artists and labels are making a lot less money off of their products...that's why it's become such an issue....they're losing money because of it.
Is that your view too, or just that of the canadien govt?
That's like saying..."I'm going to steal this tv and give it to my sister....I'm not making money off it, so it's legal"..... :roll:
Wow you're really bent out of shape on this issue. :-?
No it's not the same thing, it's more like taking a photo copy from a book. That's the way I see it. Have you ever printed something off the internet without paying or took a photo copy? And be sure, if you ever cut and paste an article from the net that you pay them for the rights to post. : :
It's legal in Canada because blank CDs are taxed and money given to the music industry. So, you are paying for the songs you burn, just indirectly. There is nothing immoral with burning music in this case.
You're depriving the record company of the cost of the CD by making a copy, so it's stealing. CDs have copywrites, which state that they can't be copied without permission.
I struggled with this one for a while - but I can't get away from the fact that's it's wrong.
Tobael, see above. : No wonder it's legal, in a way I feel the music industry is ripping me off. Not every CD I buy is used for burning, most of them are used for documents...I upset now. I'm paying all the time for music I'm not getting. : : : : : :roll: :
But that's not the case in the United States (or with blank CDs acquired in the United States). Conversely, if I went to Canada and purchased some blank CDs and used them to store recordings of my own music (and I do mean mine; I'm a musician and do record from time to time), or digital pictures, or PowerPoint presentations, or anything else not involving the music industry, then I am paying the music industry for absolutely nothing.
Getting CDs without payment or permission from peer to peer networks and the like has the same effect as shoplifting the CD right out of a store. You acquired the item without paying for it. The ends are the same as those of shoplifting; the only difference is the means. However, not all uses of blank CDs involve theft.
Oh, and I'm an American, but this thread is very ambiguous. I have hundreds of MP3's on my computer that I legally own. The bulk of them came from CDs that I have copied onto my computer, but recently I've been using iTunes to purchase new music. It is legal and moral for me to burn any of these songs that I own to CD if its for my own personal use.
Thing is, Scofield, I only pay 50 pence for a blank CD and the music I copy is potentially worth about 30X more!! Unless I buy blank CDs by the bucket load, I am definitley in front with this deal!!
Yes, it is. Which adds another layer of complexity to the question and yet another exception to the perceived rule. You're perfectly in the right. Note the use of the phrase "without payment or permission" in my note about P2P and Internet downloads. :
Well, its arguable whether the music is actually worth that much. That's how much they charge for it, but price and value are two separate things.
This thread is funnnnnnyyyyy. It's legal and I pay for it by purchasing CD's, that I might add are not all used for music. Maybe one in 50. So yes, the music industry is getting their moneys worth from me.
Is it a sin to photocopy or cut and pas without paying for the rights? After all it is legal...and you're not paying...is it a sin?
Most cutting and pasting is allowed, if credits are given isn't it? With CDs it's a pretty clear infringement of the record producers rights. That's the way I have settled with the idea, anyway. My conscience wont allow me to change on this one.
How is copying someone's written work different from someone's audio work? You're still not paying for it? If it's a sin with one then why not the other? "Just because your government tells you it's legal to copy print doesn't mean it's not a sin." :roll:
A thin line.
You're right, Scofield, a thin line - but enough of one to make you question it? Many times I've tried to justify it, but playing one sin off against another doesn't really work.
Our priest said to me, 'it's against the law, but not a sin as the prices of CDs aren't justified', but who am I to judge whether someone is charging too much? It's their business.
A controversial issue, I find.
I think it matters how much of something you copy. I do not believe it is legal to copy a book or magazine in its entirity. I think the limit you can legally copy is one chapter of a book or one article from a magazine. You are making use of the authors original words, but you are not aquiring the total value of the work. This is what makes such activities different than illegally downloading songs.
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