Can we pray for shortening the days of the Second Coming?

Discussion in 'End Times' started by asker24, Nov 23, 2017.

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Would you be happy if Christ should return today?

  1. Yes

    3 vote(s)
    75.0%
  2. No

    1 vote(s)
    25.0%
  1. asker24

    asker24 Member

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    As Christians, at least some of us are looking forward to the return of Jesus (call it Rapture, Second Coming or any other way and regardless the different interpretations of the intermediate events)

    Now usually, we pray the Lord for good things that we would like in our lives because Jesus has taught us to ASK for good things we want in many passages (Luke 18:1-8, John 14:13-14, Matthew 21:22, John 16:24, and many others)

    It is reasonable to think that asking is an important step in the relationship between men and God.
    And what to ask? In the Lord prayer, there are are many (if not all) passages that will be fulfilled completely only on the Second Coming:

    "your kingdom come,
    your will be done,

    on earth as it is in heaven."

    - The kingdom of the Lord has not completely come, and His will is not completely done on earth, and it will not until His return, and the separation of sheeps and goats.

    "And lead us not into temptation,
    but deliver us from the evil one.’"


    - Same here: the only way in which we will be COMPLETELY freed and delivered from temptation and the evil one, will be on the Last day, by entering his Kingdom, separated from the goats.

    Then curiously, in Matthew 24:22 we find "for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened".

    Now I have 2 QUESTIONS:

    1) As Christian, would you really be happy if the Second Coming would happen in a month? Or in a week? Or today? Or would you prefer to first do some mundane things and you'd rather prefer Him to come later? (Matthew 22: 1-14, Luke 19:14)

    2) Provided that we usually ask for many things never mentioned in the Gospel, and we hope them to be fulfilled, wouldn't it be useful to ask for such thing as the Return of the Lord? At least there is some probability that is a correct prayer. If it's not, it wouldn't have hurt to try, but if it is right, it will means enter into the Kingdom of Heaven and be delivered from evil immediately, not only for us but for everyone living now.

    3) What if the Lord is waiting for people, at least His elects, really wanting and asking for His return, to shorten the days?

    4) Are you aware of some Christians who in their hearts hope that Jesus returns as late as possible because they first want to realize their project, or for fear or other reasons?
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    NOTE
    To a possible objection like "if the day will be shortened, some people will not have time to repent" there are at least 2 answers:
    - Every day new people born in this world full of temptations (Luke 4:6), and there are more people at risk of losing the way, than people who repent.
    - If someone has the seed of repentance in his earth, it's not to exclude that he will be saved in the last day even if he didn't publicly confessed to be Christian because they haven't met Christ yet.
    If it wouldn't be like this, then every population who did not hear of Christ in the past and now would be condemned, and this is not the case, because those who pursued good and searched for the Truth would have listened to the Lord and convert if had the occasion (Romans 2:15) (think about people like Socrates), so they will likely be saved anyway.
     
  2. Eugene

    Eugene Staff Member Moderator

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    Good morning and welcome to these forums of Christian fellowship in Jesus' name.
    How about the words of John in Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Blessings in Christ Jesus. :wave2
     
  3. JLB

    JLB Member

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    Welcome to the Forum.

    God bless you.



    34 “But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. 35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.” Luke 21:34-36



    JLB
     
  4. asker24

    asker24 Member

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    Thanks, Eugene! That is exactly another formulation of this prayer. Let's pray it, then :) Maranatha
    JLB God bless us
     
  5. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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    I think your first 3 questions (wait, weren't there only supposed to be 2 questions?:biggrin2) are addressed here in Matthew:
    Mat 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
    Mat 24:30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    Mat 24:31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
    The Lesson of the Fig Tree
    Mat 24:32 “From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near.
    Mat 24:33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.
    Mat 24:34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
    Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
    No One Knows That Day and Hour
    Mat 24:36 “But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.
    I take that to mean that the day/hour of these things is already fixed and there is nothing we can do to hasten, or for that matter, delay what the Father has already determined. Which brings up question 4 about delaying the 2nd Coming and once more gets answered here:
    2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
    Once more it shows that God is in control of this timeline not us; I don't believe our prayers and supplications will alter His timeline one iota.

    Welcome to CF.net
    Wow, really had to stretch my brain so early in the morning.......
     
  6. asker24

    asker24 Member

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    Thanks for the detailed answer Civilwarbuff :) Actually the questions were supposed to be 2, maybe it's the miracle of multiplication of the questions :biggrin

    Completely true that no one knows the day, and it is wrong to guess predicitions.
    But this doesn't imply that we can't ask to hasten it. We don't know when and if our prayers will be fulfilled, when we ask any other thing like a conversion or a healing, but still we ask.

    Again, not knowing doesn't imply the usefulness of asking. Moreover, the Father knows the future, so we don't know if he decided the date knowing the prayers from his elects too. That could lead to an interpretation of "for the sake of the elect the days will be shortened".

    Many times Jesus wants to actively to actively ask for what is good (Luke 5:12-14, Matthew 15:21-28, Matthew 7:7-12) before giving us it.

    This is interesting, even though this one too doesn't imply anything from our point, it only tells us to not lose the hope in the fulfillment of God's promises.

    PS in the first question I was curious about if you would be personally happy if the Lord should return very soon, theology aside :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
  7. Eugene

    Eugene Staff Member Moderator

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    Morning again Brother asker24. Are you using the above scripture to infer the tribulation to come, and that in conjunction with Jesus coming for us the Church that the elect of this present time must be shortened lest none of us survive? Thanks.
    Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
    Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
     
  8. asker24

    asker24 Member

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    Good morning Brother Eugene.
    I'm using the above scripture to infer that elect's prayer may have a role in the hastening of the return of Christ.
    I'm not entering into details of the return features (some think is a rapture, others is another form, but these details are not relevant in this thread), though as you mentioned it is written about tribulation (that seem already present in a way), and Jesus coming for us.

    I'm not using only the above passage to infer that, but also the many others quoted above too, plus the countless passages that show us that the Lord wants us to actively participate in His plan, and actively ask for what is good before giving us it (Luke 5:12-14, Matthew 15:21-28, Matthew 7:7-12, Job 42:7-8, Jeremiah 29:12-14 etc.) ..
     
  9. whatgoeshere?

    whatgoeshere? Member

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    I think someone could pray for this. But the word says no man knows the time or day , not even the son of man knows when the second coming shall be. It is the father that decides. Why would we ask God to bring the great judgment according to our desires as if those should influence his?
     
  10. Eugene

    Eugene Staff Member Moderator

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    Christian:
    Yes
    Amen, and though you mentioned that tribulation seems present in a way, there will be tribulation at that time worse than any ever since the the beginning of the world, and those elect of Israel entering the millennial kingdom will be spared, and physically allowed to endure until the end of that time. Nice talking to you. :)
     
  11. asker24

    asker24 Member

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    Hi whatgoeshere and thanks for your reply! These points seems similar to civilwarbuff's ones above.
    So you can look there for a reply.
    In short:
    Not knowing doesn't imply the usefulness of asking. Moreover, the Father knows the future, so we don't know if he decided the date knowing the prayers from his elects too.

    In this case, our will and His will would be aligned, but it may be in His will to give influence to our prayers: indeed, many times Jesus wants us to actively ask for what is good (Luke 5:12-14, Matthew 15:21-28, Matthew 7:7-12, Jeremiah 29:12-14, Job 42:78) before giving us it.

    Also, other passages about asking and shortening the days:

    Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,
    waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! -2Pet 3:11-12

    The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” ...
    He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus! -Rev 22:17-20
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
  12. whatgoeshere?

    whatgoeshere? Member

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    I think it useless to ask. Everything in God's own time. Who are we to ask that Armagedon hurry up?
     
  13. asker24

    asker24 Member

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    I see, I understand your position. :)

    For me, I'd rather ask and risk that is useless, than not ask and risk to miss a huge chance.
     
  14. jasonc

    jasonc Member

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    Christian:
    Yes
    God ,I pray that you judge my sinner neighbor.

    Rather then show him mercy?
     
  15. asker24

    asker24 Member

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    Brother whatgoeshere, can you explain why, then, this reasoning couldn't be applied to any other prayer, thus making any prayer useless?

    Dear jasonc, I'm sad that you see the Day of the Lord as something merciless and terrible, that is better to be delayed, but I'm thankful that you openly said that, because this could make us reason about the fact that maybe, there aren't theological reasons not to pray for that Day to come, but more reasons based on fear. So ironically, most Christians fear the day of the Lord more than atheists, instead of looking forward to that.
    Not exactly the spirit of countless Gospel verses, like (Luke 21:28 )
     
  16. jasonc

    jasonc Member

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    Christian:
    Yes
    Sad?no,but because it's a sin I desire the lost to be saved?

    Abraham knew of the sin of Sodom and interceded for lot and the city.he didn't say go ahead and judge the lost. That's the difference. I have jewis kin.
    I'm also not a pre tribber,mid etc,but a partial preterist, amil.I don't see an millenial reign as Jesus warns to be ready at his return and mentions no mercy for those that arent.btw the lost,saved can die this second.
     
  17. whatgoeshere?

    whatgoeshere? Member

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    Good point.
    All those scriptures concerning election, predestination, predetermination, as pertains to the father's will. And for his own glory. Wouldn't prayer then be asking God to alter at our behest the plans he's made for us? That is from scripture too. "For I know the plans I have for you....."

    When I pray I ask that I be in my fathers will. On earth as it is set for me from Heaven. Because he can see my future through the lens of eternity. I'm myopic. I can only see this life and think in matters of my self-ishness if I ask him to do something on my behalf. And according to his word, that's not how he plans things for me. Or anyone of his chosen ones.
     
  18. asker24

    asker24 Member

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    He has taught us the Lord's prayer.
    Peter talks about hastening the days, and the very last prayer in the Bible is Come!.

    In the worst case, as you mentioned, asking this will have at least the effect on us of aligning to His will, because it is in His will to return. But according to the Scriptures, I think that it could be even more powerful than that.

    Now regarding the (uncorrect) implication God knows the future -> we have no influence and he didn't take into account our free will and choices, here it is a way to look at that.

    Since you talk about the future, I hope you have familiarity with logical reasoning.

    Premise: God created men with free will.

    Now, imagine 2 possible different timelines in the history of the world.

    TIMELINE 1 - what is predicted (the events are in order):

    Event A: Jesus preach the Gospel

    Event B: His disciples START to spread the Gospel in the whole world

    Event C: His disciples prepare the bride (the Spiritual Church) by ardently desire the return of the Bridegroom, the Lord

    Event D: one of the events predicted, say, a war

    Event E: one of the events predicted, say, a tribulation

    Event F: one of the events predicted, ecc.

    Event G: The Gospel is finally spread all over the world, and all over the elects cry and shout to the Lord (Luke 18:1-8) for His return

    Event H: The Lord has set the time of the End here (from the very beginning of His creation), by knowing that B, C and G would have happened and by taking into account them too.

    Event I: Something else that may have happened if the Lord didn't cut short the days, but will never happen because the Lord knew that B, C and G will happen before.

    Now the Lord, by knowing this timeline, have told us some things that will happen in the last days, like D, E and F that you can find forecasted in the Bible. It doesn't mean that when setting the time for H, he didn't take into account B, C and G, on the contrary, he gave importance to His people in cooperating in His salvation plan, and to their actions and prayers, and decided the date for H by taking into account them too!

    Now imagine another timeline (that luckily will not happen, because the Lord has predicted that the Timeline 1 will happen)

    TIMELINE 2 - what could have happened if nobody cared about the Gospel (the events are in order):

    Event A: Jesus preach the Gospel

    Event B: Nobody care

    Event C: The few that care, think that they'd be better off to hope the Lord to return very late

    Event D: one of the events predicted, say, a war

    Event E: one of the events predicted, say, a tribulation

    Event F: one of the events predicted, ecc.

    Event G: The Gospel is still almost unknown

    Event (here is where in the other timeline Jesus Return) H : The Lord could have set the time here if his Bride should have cooperated, but since nobody cared and nobody wanted His return, He delayed His return. So nothing happens here

    Event I: other events that in Timeline 1 wouldn't have happen, but in this timeline happen

    Event J: other events that in Timeline 1 wouldn't have happen, but in this timeline happen

    Event K: other events that in Timeline 1 wouldn't have happen, but in this timeline happen (etc.)

    [...]

    Event V: FInally someone wake up, understand the Good News of the Kingdom, spread it and pray "Come"

    Event Z: The Lord by knowing the timeline, has set the date here (from the very beginning).

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In timeline 2, More events happen, so more events would have been predicted if it was what the Lord forecasted. But luckily, we are in timeline 1, because from the beginning people started to spread the Gospel;
    by taking a quick look on Google by typing "Hastening the return of Jesus", looks like there are many pastors from different denominations (and non-denominational) who understood the Lord's prayer Peter and Revelation, and are teaching to hastening the Return, so the question is: who will join?
     
  19. eddif

    eddif Member

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    Revelation 2:10 KJV
    Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

    This is a place that seems to be a fairly short time of suffering.

    It could have been 2 years of suffering. In the case of suffering to death; a short 10 days rather than years would be something to agree with in prayer.

    eddif
     
  20. eddif

    eddif Member

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    Tribulation was mentioned by others, and I just gave an example.

    eddif
     

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