Bazz1040
Member
Women are equal to men; we have different position of authority but all are equal in God's eyes. <O
</OChristian Forums
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Can Women Be Pastors & Preachers ?
- Thread starter Lewis
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Women are equal to men; we have different position of authority but all are equal in God's eyes. <O
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Bazz1040
Member
Certain physical advantage or disadvantage does not make one less equal or better than another. If the physical is what determines one’s equality then one could argue that human beings are inferior to many animals since we are not as strong as an ape, fast as a cheetah or able to see in the dark like a bat. Even a computer is able to process data faster than a human being.<O
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Bazz1040
Member
That is not what it is saying. It is saying that a woman should not wear clothing designed for a man, nor should a man wear clothing that is designed for a woman. Back in those days the vast majority of men did not wear what we would call pants today. What they wore would look more like a woman's dress, but designed for a man.<O
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That's what I call changing the subject. Listen, I don't expect many man in the U.S, even Christian men to be men.......I have seen very few. I have live here long enough and have seen how they have failed as leaders in the home and outside of it. I have seen male managers tolerate things done by women that if a man did it he would be fired. They can't even tell their wives in person that they (the husband) are the head of the home, for fear of repercussion.
I can never see myself in a relationship where I have to keep my mouth shut in speaking the truth, and at the same time my wife speaks her mind all the time, even when it is against me.<O
If that is the case (you're the only man you know) then why seek approval here?
That is not what it is saying. It is saying that a woman should not wear clothing designed for a man, nor should a man wear clothing that is designed for a woman. Back in those days the vast majority of men did not wear what we would call pants today. What they wore would look more like a woman's dress, but designed for a man.<O
Let's not stop there. Look at the general - I wonder how many "clothing designers" are male and of those that are, how many are what you would call "real men".
Look in your own closet, please?
Bazz1040
Member
I never said that I was seeking anyone's approval........I say what I have to say whether anyone likes it or not.<O
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Pebbles
Guest
Bazz I'm curious on how you apply those views to someone like me. I'm familiar with the Grey matter stuff and I have more to say on that later.
FYI I was born male and raised as such but the idea never felt right and became tortuously sad and painful when I went through puberty and became a man So at age 22 I took female hormones and my body morphologically changed along female lines over a period of months I now live as a female.
I can tell you my intellect has not changed but my grades have gone up due to me begin happier.
Admittedly yes I'm physically weaker in terms of raw strength I'm smaller too but my physical endurance and stamina is better than it was before.
I actually have boobs gotten the same way as any other female thus I need to wear a bra out of practical necessity is that a sin in your mind are all sins equal? Otherwise running would be very painful and possibly vulgar to onlookers, Not to mention the stares people would give me as if I pushed it too far and wore only male clothing as I'd look like a young woman posing as a man.
The differences you cite in terms of intellect are cultural and defined by teaching methods and only applicable to the USA other countries have different stats, here in the UK the worry is poor performance by males in intellectual studies.
FYI I was born male and raised as such but the idea never felt right and became tortuously sad and painful when I went through puberty and became a man So at age 22 I took female hormones and my body morphologically changed along female lines over a period of months I now live as a female.
I can tell you my intellect has not changed but my grades have gone up due to me begin happier.
Admittedly yes I'm physically weaker in terms of raw strength I'm smaller too but my physical endurance and stamina is better than it was before.
I actually have boobs gotten the same way as any other female thus I need to wear a bra out of practical necessity is that a sin in your mind are all sins equal? Otherwise running would be very painful and possibly vulgar to onlookers, Not to mention the stares people would give me as if I pushed it too far and wore only male clothing as I'd look like a young woman posing as a man.
The differences you cite in terms of intellect are cultural and defined by teaching methods and only applicable to the USA other countries have different stats, here in the UK the worry is poor performance by males in intellectual studies.
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Bazz1040
Member
I have heard of similar cases like yours here in the U.S. I would not necessarily call it a sin if a person who for some reason did not feel comfortable being raised a male or a female........they would know their body more than anyone else.
Unfortunately, we live in a world because of sin we are reaping many of the unforeseen consequences, not to mention the fact that some manmade products can and do affect hormones and how a fetus develops in the womb. So if a person like yourself did what you did, I see no problem or sin in that as long as that person does not keep going back and forth from one gender to another.
I see your situation different than a person who is a homosexual or lesbian.<O
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Bazz1040
Member
You think the truth has anything to do with what a culture believe's? Or that just because people's attitude has change means that what they now believe is correct? If that is the case we don't need that Bible, just do and believe whatever people believe or go along with the every changing morale value of society.<O
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I'm no longer interested in validating ignorance. Bye for now, this seems pointless. Find your much needed approval elsewhere, O man, not from me. If you are in fact interested in listening to alternate concepts (those other than your own) - I would suggest reading again what Handy has said in thread. She's earned my respect in many cases.
Bazz1040
Member
Your insistence on making false statement like that about me then it only shows that you have a habit of twisting anything you read (this would include the Bible) for your own purpose. Because of this I can’t say whether or not I will engage you in any other discussion. Adios.<O
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Bazz1040
Member
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coffeeelover
Guest
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Culture plays a huge role. Ever hear of a kilt?
You think the truth has anything to do with what a culture believe's? Or that just because people's attitude has change means that what they now believe is correct? If that is the case we don't need that Bible, just do and believe whatever people believe or go along with the every changing morale value of society.<O
Culture plays a huge role. Ever hear of a kilt?
jasoncran
Member
the only time i can agree with coffeelover. the identification of what is considered male and female clothing and or acceptable for them to do varies from culture to culture greatly.
in afghanistan men are seamstress and plan weddings not women. and they also paint nails and toenails.
call them a girl and see what happens.
Bazz1040
Member
What is right is not subjected to culture but people that are confused and has no redeeming principle will conform to whatever a culture deem as right. I am not talking about what one puts on on the outside, but right principle that helps to build a decent society and not contribute to gender role confustion.
Here is a scripture that could well describe our modern-day western world.<O
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</OIsaiah 3:12 (ASV)
<SUP>12 </SUP>As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they that lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths. <O
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jasoncran
Member
What is right is not subjected to culture but people that are confused and has no redeeming principle will conform to whatever a culture deem as right.<O
true but that role model to a degree of what a man is way different per culture and if you americanas definition of manhood from the 50's you will be way off on what the bible does say or doenst say.
ie long hair, men can have long hair in the bible, women can have short hair as well
read the the whole part of 1 corinthians 7. some of the older churches preached that men cant do this or that and be a christian as they preached certian attrubitutes of men that werent in the bible but a cultural thing that has changed over time.
Bazz1040
Member
The Bible is that standard regardless of what a culture does modern or old.
And the Bible does say that a man that has long hair that it dishonors him but if a woman does it is to her glory.
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</O1 Corinthians 11:14-16 (ASV) <SUP>14 </SUP>Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a dishonor to him?
<SUP>15 </SUP>But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
<SUP>16 </SUP>But if any man seemeth to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
We live in a today of gender role confusion world; where many men act like they are women (they think they are men because they believe that they can take on any guy in a fight, as if that is what it means to be a man) and some women that act as if they are a man (acting in an aggressive way towards men like another man would towards another man in an argument). <O
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jasoncran
Member
16 But if any man seemeth to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
learn the context of what when on in corinth at that time
the women then were in rebellion and wanted to show that they didnt have to be under a man
vs 16 just negated your whole logic
no church has that custom according to paul, he recommend that they do that but other churches men did have long hair and women have short
a pastor in maine preached on that and he btw is agianst women pastors.
that is his view, as the short haired women were cultic whores that would sell their bodies.
big difference from some like my wife who has headaches from long hair to her knees!
so she keeps to her ears or at the most shoulders.
learn the context of what when on in corinth at that time
the women then were in rebellion and wanted to show that they didnt have to be under a man
vs 16 just negated your whole logic
no church has that custom according to paul, he recommend that they do that but other churches men did have long hair and women have short
a pastor in maine preached on that and he btw is agianst women pastors.
that is his view, as the short haired women were cultic whores that would sell their bodies.
big difference from some like my wife who has headaches from long hair to her knees!
so she keeps to her ears or at the most shoulders.
Bazz1040
Member
Nope, it does not. Because verse 16 is not talking about what came before it but what is said in verse 16. In other words the Church does not have as its custom of going against what is right.<O
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</ORead all of what comes before verse 16 and you will see if Paul was saying what you are claiming, then it would mean that he would have contradicted himself.<O
</O1 Corinthians 11:1-15 (KJV)
<SUP>1 </SUP>Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
<SUP>2 </SUP>Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
<SUP>3 </SUP>But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
<SUP>4</SUP>Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
<SUP>5</SUP>But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
<SUP>6 </SUP>For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
<SUP>7 </SUP>For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
<SUP>8 </SUP>For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
<SUP>9 </SUP>Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
<SUP>10 </SUP>For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
<SUP>11 </SUP>Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
<SUP>12 </SUP>For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
<SUP>13 </SUP>Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
<SUP>14 </SUP>Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
<SUP>15 </SUP>But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
Verse 4: If a man that covers/has long hair it dishonors his Head and his Head is Jesus. Verse 5: And the women that has short hair like a man dishonors her head, and her head is the man.<O
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