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Casual talk

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#1
Just sitting here in the Lounge having casual conversation and fellowship.....with myself.
Care to join in?

I was sitting here thinking about faith, belief, and hope.
What is the difference?
Does one have more power than the other?
Can we distinguish between them?
I wonder...I wonder...I wonder...

I hope I have the faith to believe...
I hope I can believe in my faith...
My faith allows me to believe in the hopes I have...
My faith gives me hope to believe...
I believe in my faith to have hope...
I believe ....
Does believe and hope are capatable?
Does one hope stronger than they believe?
Does one believe stronger than they hope?

Is believing in the Blessed Hope brought on by our faith?

So many questions.
What are the answers?

So I sit here having this casual conversation with myself and fellowship with myself, wondering if a truth can be found in these statements.
Would to join in the conversation?
 
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#2
Hi Allen,

Some think that belief and faith are two different concepts in Christianity.

As far as I'm concerned they are intertwined and basically the same.
Here's why:

BELIEVE in the Greek means:
To trust
To adhere to
To follow
To learn from
To believe with the heart AND mind

When we say that a person is a "believer" it means all of the above.

Now, if you believe, or have belief, in a person, wouldn't you also have faith in him based on the above?

Here's the meaning for Faith:

Freebase(4.50 / 2 votes)Rate this definition:
  1. Faith

    Faith is confidence or trust in a person, thing, deity, or in the doctrines or teachings of a religion. It is also belief that is not based on proof. In religion, faith often involves accepting claims about the character of a deity, nature, or the universe. While some have argued that faith is opposed to reason, proponents of faith argue that the proper domain of faith concerns questions which cannot be settled by evidence. For example, faith can be applied to predictions of the future, which has not yet occurred. The word faith is often used as a substitute for hope, trust or belief.

We can see that the explanation for Believe, Belief, overlaps the explanation for Faith,
and it even states that they can be interchanged.

If I believe in Jesus, I have faith in Him.
If I have faith in Jesus, I believe in Him.

I don't see any difference...the outcome is the same.
 
Joined
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#3
Hi Allen,

Some think that belief and faith are two different concepts in Christianity.

As far as I'm concerned they are intertwined and basically the same.
Here's why:

BELIEVE in the Greek means:
To trust
To adhere to
To follow
To learn from
To believe with the heart AND mind

When we say that a person is a "believer" it means all of the above.

Now, if you believe, or have belief, in a person, wouldn't you also have faith in him based on the above?

Here's the meaning for Faith:

Freebase(4.50 / 2 votes)Rate this definition:
  1. Faith

    Faith is confidence or trust in a person, thing, deity, or in the doctrines or teachings of a religion. It is also belief that is not based on proof. In religion, faith often involves accepting claims about the character of a deity, nature, or the universe. While some have argued that faith is opposed to reason, proponents of faith argue that the proper domain of faith concerns questions which cannot be settled by evidence. For example, faith can be applied to predictions of the future, which has not yet occurred. The word faith is often used as a substitute for hope, trust or belief.

We can see that the explanation for Believe, Belief, overlaps the explanation for Faith,
and it even states that they can be interchanged.

If I believe in Jesus, I have faith in Him.
If I have faith in Jesus, I believe in Him.

I don't see any difference...the outcome is the same.
Well, I hope so.
Do you also hope so?
 
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#4
Well, I hope so.
Do you also hope so?
Ooops. Forgot about hope.
Hope is different.

The only thing I know about hope just offhand is that it will not be needed in heaven.
Hope
Faith
Charity

Hope and Faith will fade away and will not be necessary in heaven.
Only Charity (love) will remain.

!!

I'd like to hear some explanations of hope besides Hebrews.
 
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#5
Well, if you are hoping in your faith and beliefs being correct, then hope must be stronger than both of them.
Don't you agree?
 
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#6
Well, if you are hoping in your faith and beliefs being correct, then hope must be stronger than both of them.
Don't you agree?
I don't agree with that.

What I believe goes beyond hope.
Hebrews says that faith is being sure of what we hope for.
To me it sounds like FAITH is stronger than HOPE.

If I have faith in someone, it goes beyond just hoping that they would do what they said.
If I only hope, how much faith do I have? Not much it would seem to me.
 
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#7
Are you looking forward to your blessed hope, or your blessed faith?
The truth is, your faith and belief better be in place if you expect to get what you hope for
You are the one that didn't want to go into Hebrews and then you use it
Why may I ask?
 
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#8
Are you looking forward to your blessed hope, or your blessed faith?
The truth is, your faith and belief better be in place if you expect to get what you hope for
You are the one that didn't want to go into Hebrews and then you use it
Why may I ask?
There's a lot of scripture on hope. I never studied this. Also, it depends what one means by hope.

I'm looking forward to my blessed hope.
But I don't HOPE I'm going to heaven, I'm expecting Jesus to get me there.
How are these 3 sentences different?
I hope to meet you someday.
I believe I will meet you someday.
I have faith that I'll meet you one day.

Which one gives the stronger impression that I'll meet the person one day?
Is this the hope we're talking about?
 
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#9
There's a lot of scripture on hope. I never studied this. Also, it depends what one means by hope.

I'm looking forward to my blessed hope.
But I don't HOPE I'm going to heaven, I'm expecting Jesus to get me there.
How are these 3 sentences different?
I hope to meet you someday.
I believe I will meet you someday.
I have faith that I'll meet you one day.

Which one gives the stronger impression that I'll meet the person one day?
Is this the hope we're talking about?
Oh I'm confused, I'm just so confused.....


 
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#10
LOL
Yeah. Let me think on this a bit.

Bump.
Just sitting here in the Lounge having casual conversation and fellowship.....with myself.
Care to join in?

I was sitting here thinking about faith, belief, and hope.
What is the difference?
Does one have more power than the other?
Can we distinguish between them?
I wonder...I wonder...I wonder...

I hope I have the faith to believe...
I hope I can believe in my faith...
My faith allows me to believe in the hopes I have...
My faith gives me hope to believe...
I believe in my faith to have hope...
I believe ....
Does believe and hope are capatable?
Does one hope stronger than they believe?
Does one believe stronger than they hope?

Is believing in the Blessed Hope brought on by our faith?

So many questions.
What are the answers?

So I sit here having this casual conversation with myself and fellowship with myself, wondering if a truth can be found in these statements.
Would to join in the conversation?
I think I need to redo this...
These are my opinions, worth about :twocents

1. Faith and belief is the same. Hope is different.
For explanation of difference, please attend next week's lesson.

2. I believe faith has the most power.

3. I find it difficult too distinguish between faith and belief.

4. My belief goes beyond hoping in it --- I'm sure of it.

5. Our faith DOES allow us to have hope in all things.

6. I believe stronger than I hope.

7. Yes. Believing in the Blessed Hope is brought on by my faith.

This is better, I HOPE !
I BELIEVE the above is easier to understand.
I have FAITH that you'll understand my answers.

But I fear you may be looking for much deeper explanations...
 
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#11
LOL
Yeah. Let me think on this a bit.

Bump.

I think I need to redo this...
These are my opinions, worth about :twocents

1. Faith and belief is the same. Hope is different.
For explanation of difference, please attend next week's lesson.

2. I believe faith has the most power.

3. I find it difficult too distinguish between faith and belief.

4. My belief goes beyond hoping in it --- I'm sure of it.

5. Our faith DOES allow us to have hope in all things.

6. I believe stronger than I hope.

7. Yes. Believing in the Blessed Hope is brought on by my faith.

This is better, I HOPE !
I BELIEVE the above is easier to understand.
I have FAITH that you'll understand my answers.

But I fear you may be looking for much deeper explanations...
The deeper explanations lie in our hope.
We can have all the faith and belief in the world, but in the end, it is our hope that we are looking after.
 
R

Runner

Guest
#13
  • I hope my car will be in my garage in the morning, that thieves will not have stolen it during the night.
  • Because I live in a low-crime area, I locked my garage, and my car has an anti-theft security system, I believe my car will be in my garage in the morning. When the foundation for my belief is strong, the need for mere hope becomes correspondingly less.
  • I demonstrate my faith that my car is in my garage in the morning when I grab my keys and tell my wife to put on her coat because we're going for a drive. The depth of my faith hinges to a large extent on the strength of the foundation for my belief. If I live in a low-crime area, I locked my garage, and my car has an anti-theft system, my faith will be strong.
  • I know my car is in my garage when I open the door and see it. At this point, my hope, belief and faith become irrelevant.
I really don't think these concepts operate any differently in the religious sphere.

The interesting question is whether, since we are dealing with the unseen spiritual realm, we can ever really say we know. Some people would say they know because of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit or other religious experiences. Others would say that even these sorts of experiences do not rise to the level of knowing but do make the foundation for belief stronger. When the foundation for belief is stronger, one should be able to act with greater faith.
 

for_his_glory

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#14
I think belief, faith and hope go hand in hand as one has to believe first then build upon that faith that is Christ Jesus who is our hope of eternal salvation with the Father.

We know faith is the substance of things hoped for (Jesus), the evidence of things not seen, (Jesus), Hebrews 11:1. It takes belief first, John 3:16, as we believe Christ is who He said He is as faith that is our hope, (Jesus) will reveal Himself to us as we seek Him, Colossians 3:1-4.
 
R

Runner

Guest
#15
The deeper explanations lie in our hope.
We can have all the faith and belief in the world, but in the end, it is our hope that we are looking after.
As I set forth above, if you have a strong foundation for belief, there is correspondingly little need for hope. In one sense, however, you are correct. As long as you don't know, then some element of hope must be present. Even if I have an extremely strong foundation for belief, and thus a very deep and strong faith that what I believe is true, as long as I don't actually know it is true there will be an element of uncertainty and thus the hope that what I am convinced is true actually is true. This element of uncertainty doesn't necessarily mean that I have "doubts," a term that seems to be a hot-button for many Christians, but merely that I acknowledge the reality that when it comes to spiritual truths I cannot really know in the same way I can know that my car is in my garage.
 
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#16
  • I hope my car will be in my garage in the morning, that thieves will not have stolen it during the night.
  • Because I live in a low-crime area, I locked my garage, and my car has an anti-theft security system, I believe my car will be in my garage in the morning. When the foundation for my belief is strong, the need for mere hope becomes correspondingly less.
  • I demonstrate my faith that my car is in my garage in the morning when I grab my keys and tell my wife to put on her coat because we're going for a drive. The depth of my faith hinges to a large extent on the strength of the foundation for my belief. If I live in a low-crime area, I locked my garage, and my car has an anti-theft system, my faith will be strong.
  • I know my car is in my garage when I open the door and see it. At this point, my hope, belief and faith become irrelevant.
I really don't think these concepts operate any differently in the religious sphere.

The interesting question is whether, since we are dealing with the unseen spiritual realm, we can ever really say we know. Some people would say they know because of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit or other religious experiences. Others would say that even these sorts of experiences do not rise to the level of knowing but do make the foundation for belief stronger. When the foundation for belief is stronger, one should be able to act with greater faith.
Agreed 100%

If I need hope that I'm right in believing and having faith, certainly it means I'm not sure.
But I can be sure because I trust Jesus and the apostles spoke!e the truth and we're not speaking lies, or were suffering from dementia.

Well said.
 
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#17
I think belief, faith and hope go hand in hand as one has to believe first then build upon that faith that is Christ Jesus who is our hope of eternal salvation with the Father.

We know faith is the substance of things hoped for (Jesus), the evidence of things not seen, (Jesus), Hebrews 11:1. It takes belief first, John 3:16, as we believe Christ is who He said He is as faith that is our hope, (Jesus) will reveal Himself to us as we seek Him, Colossians 3:1-4.
Is believing in Christ first....then comes faith,
The same as belief in Christ?
 
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#19
As I set forth above, if you have a strong foundation for belief, there is correspondingly little need for hope. In one sense, however, you are correct. As long as you don't know, then some element of hope must be present. Even if I have an extremely strong foundation for belief, and thus a very deep and strong faith that what I believe is true, as long as I don't actually know it is true there will be an element of uncertainty and thus the hope that what I am convinced is true actually is true. This element of uncertainty doesn't necessarily mean that I have "doubts," a term that seems to be a hot-button for many Christians, but merely that I acknowledge the reality that when it comes to spiritual truths I cannot really know in the same way I can know that my car is in my garage.
that's okay, just think about it casually
no stress that way
 

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