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Cessationism- have tongues and prophecy ceased, or are they still active?

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2 Pet~~ 3Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4and saying(the mockers), “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.”


Notice In 2 Peter 3....... that is what the MOCKERS were saying. And the mockers were essentially saying," Hey Peter, all the OT prophets are dead and He Has not come yet. How can YOU stoopid Christians be saying this stuff!!!"

I don't know of ONE scholar or even a diligent student of the Word......that interprets that verse as Peter, personally saying, that all the apostles are dead at the time of writing His Epistle.
How many scholars do you know personally?
 
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So, are you and 1Genesis the same person?
No. I saw you ask her about her earlier statement concerning Peter's authenticity. Genesis doesn't appear to be on-line so I thought after I commented on her remarks concerning her observations about 2nd Peters authenticity that that I'd start a proper thread to get this going since you asked for that.
 
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How many scholars do you know personally?
Did you notice that it was the mocker's that Peter was quoting? And not himself. Peter was not saying." I am telling you that all the Apostles are dead."

2 Pet 3~~ 3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying,(the mockers) “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.”
 
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Can you please name a few scholars that reject the authenticity of 2nd Peter? ..........And That state their proof?

If you would like.......start a thread on all these scholars that reject 2nd Peters authenticity, with their proof. That would be a good debate.
Someone kindly beat me to it. :) Oh, and no, they're not me. At least I hope not. Otherwise, I have to have a serious talk with my dad. :squint
 
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Did you notice that it was the mocker's that Peter was quoting? And not himself. Peter was not saying." I am telling you that all the Apostles are dead."

2 Pet 3~~ 3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying,(the mockers) “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.”

Are you and Jim Parker the same person?
 
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I really don't think anyone can state that God the Father obeys the writings of men and contains his will according to the parameters set forth in a man made canon.
Though that seems to be what is argued here for the large part.
 
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And as I have just pointed out, that is a straw man. That is not the argument I am making, nor that some others are making.
So the convent of the law had shadows of things to come.
Colossians 2:16 KJV
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The new covenant had better promises.

How does a word study work with that statement?

eddif
 
W

whatgoeshere?

Guest
This is split off from another thread due to being more on topic. Have miracles ceased when the canon of scripture was closed? Prophecy, Tongues, Word of Knowledge, Word of wisdom, have these gifts of the Holy Spirit ceased? Well this is a huge topic, but I believe we can all agree that the key scripture is 1 Corinthians 13:8-10. Well we can all have opinions on this passage, and I am sure we all do. However it is important to study as well what other theologians say. Wayne Grudem received his A.B. from Harvard, his honorary D.D. from Westminster Seminary, and his PhD. in New testament from Cambridge. So I think we can all agree he is definitely a modern day scholar. For my evidence against cessationism I wish to post a document to a section of his work. That we can all learn from and discuss freely. God Bless you.

This systematic theology reference by wayne grudem received nearly 5 stars on amazon with over 700 reviews.

Here you can view
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fdEaJ-JbQBEAVpPEmOhvHGsX69ut46YcGEEHbclDtFA/edit?usp=sharing
I hope to understand.
The gift of prophecy and that of the office of a prophet are two different things. Are you agreed?

 
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I Corinthians 14:5 KJV
I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater ishe that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Need the last part of the verse.

Tongues plus interpretation equals prophecy.

As long as the meaning is transferred:
Tongues plus interpretation
Or
Prophecy

eddif
 
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Yes, Elijah was a prophet. Buy we can and do have occasional gifting where we prophesy.
Just the prophets basically prophesied in the old covenant.

Sons and daughters prophesied on the day of Pentecost. In Christ there is neither male or female etc.

Galatians 3:28 KJV
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

eddif
 
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Acts 1:15 KJV
And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

The next few verses have the 11 electing a replacement for Judas.

Then
Acts 2:17 KJV
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

So we must be back to the 120 if daughters are involved in tongues and interpretation (not drunk comments by Peter about Joel).

But the dreams and visions are left to men (something I do not yet totally understand). I do notice female visions do get wild over history). Today stable visions seem more men oriented. I just usually read scripture ( very few visions and I usually have the few of them on the back burner).

Speaking forth the mighty works of God do include daughters. And there is a difference in female calling ( that I can not put into words yet).

What have just done? Limited my own discussion.

Redneck
eddif
 
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I Corinthians 14:5 KJV
I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater ishe that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Need the last part of the verse.

Tongues plus interpretation equals prophecy.

As long as the meaning is transferred:
Tongues plus interpretation
Or
Prophecy

eddif
What kind of things of prophecy are given that go beyond what we have in the completed canon?
 
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What kind of things of prophecy are given that go beyond what we have in the completed canon?
II Peter 1:3 KJV
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

All of the New Covenant is described in the New Testament. I would presume the explanation of spiritual gifts would be in that cannon.

Prophecy as an example.
I Corinthians 14:25 KJV
And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

You check context. Just remember an ox context relates to a preacher context.

Redneck
eddif
 
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What kind of things of prophecy are given that go beyond what we have in the completed canon?
That is a key question.


No prophecy goes beyond what he has revealed to us in His written word. So His written word is enough. And it reveals to us who is adding or subtracting.
 
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That is a key question.

No prophecy goes beyond what he has revealed to us in His written word. So His written word is enough. And it reveals to us who is adding or subtracting.
I am wearing out this passage
I Corinthians 14:24 KJV
But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

The service can be planned as to hymns, sermon, testimony.
Or
Things can turn toward a visitors need.

If you get on the right / correct unknown information in a persons life, it makes an impact.

Telling King Saul his donkeys were found is an example.
I Samuel 9:20 KJV
And as for thine asses that were lost three days ago, set not thy mind on them; for they are found. And on whom is all the desire of Israel? Is itnot on thee, and on all thy father's house?

I do not think this wea chit chat.

eddif