Cheap Laptops

[Vince]

No, I'm not selling anything. I recently bought a cheap laptop (they cost about doublé in Mexico as they do in the US) and started reading the Acer Computer forums. I answered a few questions that were posted, and Acer made me a low-level question answerer.

Before buying any computer, before you put down any money, ask yourself "What do I want to use this machine for?" And the second most important question is "Do I want to play high-end games?"

If your answer is "Yes" to question 2, you should buy a desktop. If your answer is "No," I can give you some good free advice.

 

[tim-from-pa]

No, I'm not selling anything. I recently bought a cheap laptop (they cost about doublé in Mexico as they do in the US) and started reading the Acer Computer forums. I answered a few questions that were posted, and Acer made me a low-level question answerer.

Before buying any computer, before you put down any money, ask yourself "What do I want to use this machine for?" And the second most important question is "Do I want to play high-end games?"

If your answer is "Yes" to question 2, you should buy a desktop. If your answer is "No," I can give you some good free advice.

Sure. What sort of cheap laptops and towers do you recommend, just in case this one wheres out? And my old tower is getting slow since it's hardware is working to the limit. And... whatever comes on them, they have to easily install Linux over the OS, because I won't even touch a Microsoft computer any longer. Some of these new fangled laptops and towers no longer have the old BIOS, but the UEFI which some are attitudinal I hear, especially if Microsoft is on the machine won't let you install Linux any longer. I'm getting older, and all I do on computers is surf, emails, forums, watch videos, and personal documents and calculating type programs such as astronomy. No graphically intense gaming stuff.

I know how to build my own towers, and have done so several times, but I don't feel like spending the time lately. But if I can't get a computer any longer and just easily install the OS, I may have to get off my duff and do just that again. I'm waiting because of the money issues as well. I can afford it, but since the computers are working well I don't feel justified right now unless it's cheap.

 

[Vince]

Glad to have you aboard, Tim. Uhm, you are aware that laptops don't have towers?

Anyway, Drivers are software programs that tell the parts of your computer how to work. When you install an operating system (OS), the installation disk will include lots of drivers, so hopefully, you will be all right. But laptops are very specific; an installation disk usually does not have all the drivers.

The tech forums are full of complaints from people who tried to upgrade their laptops from Windows 7 to Windows 8. Somewhere in the process, their laptop would reject the new OS because it didn't have the necessary drivers. Sometimes you can download the drivers from the manufacturer, but then they still won't work because they're designed for Win 7, not Win 8. Some people upgrade smoothly, but then find that their laptop doesn't run as well. And some people have no problems.

Generally, if you buy a laptop, you will not be able to upgrade your OS. Instead of being stuck with an expensive obsolete laptop, you are better off buying a cheap one that can be replaced every few years.

 

[Vince]

Temperature is one of the great killers of laptops. Generally, the insides won't be destroyed until you hit 170F, but the parts will wear out faster at any high temperature. Merely placing some small object under the back of your laptop will raise the bottom off your desk, and that will drop the temperature about 10 degrees. You can buy a cooling fan that sits under your laptop--it will blow cooler air over the bottom, lowering the temperature about ten degrees. (Some critics point out that raising the laptop will accomplish just as much.)

With about 1/6 the inside space of a desktop, a laptop has to struggle to stay cool. Its one exhaust fan is smaller than the exhaust fans on a desktop. Its vents are smaller, and it has less surface area to radiate heat. Start playing high tech games, and you're heading for even more trouble.

But cheap laptops have an advantage over powerful ones. Their CPU (the computer chip) runs at a much lower temperature. With proper care, a cheap laptop can actually last you more than eight years.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Glad to have you aboard, Tim. Uhm, you are aware that laptops don't have towers?

Anyway, Drivers are software programs that tell the parts of your computer how to work. When you install an operating system (OS), the installation disk will include lots of drivers, so hopefully, you will be all right. But laptops are very specific; an installation disk usually does not have all the drivers.

The tech forums are full of complaints from people who tried to upgrade their laptops from Windows 7 to Windows 8. Somewhere in the process, their laptop would reject the new OS because it didn't have the necessary drivers. Sometimes you can download the drivers from the manufacturer, but then they still won't work because they're designed for Win 7, not Win 8. Some people upgrade smoothly, but then find that their laptop doesn't run as well. And some people have no problems.

Generally, if you buy a laptop, you will not be able to upgrade your OS. Instead of being stuck with an expensive obsolete laptop, you are better off buying a cheap one that can be replaced every few years.

I don't think you read my post correctly at all. I have a tower computer AND I have a laptop. I built tower computers already so I know the difference. My laptop is sitting up slightly on a pad with fans underneath, so it is getting proper ventilation. I also have a tower computer that's getting slow, because it is getting old. I believe it's the video card, so I was referring to that tower I'd like to eventually replace. Also, you did not read correctly about the operating system I want to use. Actually, it sounds like a windows 7 computer (be it a tower computer or laptop) is the way to go so that when I bring it home to destroy the Microsoft and load the operating system it won't kick me off because I think these older OS computers have the old BIOS yet. That is to say, I won't have to bypass the UEFI. It's the newer computers with UEFI in place of the BIOS that I'm worried about, because the newer computers with the windows 8 operating system won't allow a user to install another operating system next to it or in lieu of the windows 8 operating system. That was one of the complaints with the newer computers, but there was a work-around that was a big hassle IMO.

But I believe only a few have the UEFI yet, but if it's windows 8 (which I think most sell these days) then that is what comes on the computer and has me worried. This is why I might have to resort to building again (but really don't feel like it --- it would be nice to get a cheap tower and just load on it whatever I want).

I have my operating system burned on a CD AND on a memory stick all ready to load onto an unlimited number of computers --- if I had that many I'd load it on all of them.

 

[Vince]

Besides temperature, another laptop killer is motion. People carry laptops around while they're still running. I've seen people put laptops down roughly, use them on bumpy bus and car trips, and pass them around at all angles. Yes, laptops are designed for this, but they wear out faster if you do it. Try to keep your laptop in one place. If you must move it, either shut it off or at least put it into Sleep mode.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Besides temperature, another laptop killer is motion. People carry laptops around while they're still running. I've seen people put laptops down roughly, use them on bumpy bus and car trips, and pass them around at all angles. Yes, laptops are designed for this, but they wear out faster if you do it. Try to keep your laptop in one place. If you must move it, either shut it off or at least put it into Sleep mode.

I do. My laptop is always here on the sofa arm, propped up like I said with fans running underneath it. The battery's been long dead and I'm too cheap to replace it, so it has to stay here to reach the power for the adaptor. If we go on trips, my wife takes her ipad and I take my B & N nook both which can connect to the hotel's wireless without needing to carry big laptops.

 

[Vince]

Years ago, when RAM was weak and expensive, we were advised to buy as much as we could afford. Today, when RAM is powerful and cheap, we don't need to do that. Only a few graphics-intensive programs (such as high-tech games) require more than 2 gigabytes of RAM. Buying more will not speed up your computer, although it will allow you to multi-task. Even then, it is unusual for a computer to need more than 4 gigs of RAM at the most.

 

[Vince]

How long will a laptop last? Anything is possible, but if you treat your laptop the way most people do, it should last you three years. If you treat it the way I recommend (don't move it while it's on, don't play high-tech games, elevate it or use a cooling fan) it can last you eight years.

The incredible thing is that it doesn't matter how much you paid for the laptop. Cheap laptops last as long as expensive ones. Dell Computer (the only name brand that I recommend you never buy) is notorious for using parts that will wear out shortly after the warranty expires. Off-brands also wear out quickly. But the laptops from reputable companies all last about as long as each other.

The power of computers doubles about every eighteen months. And Windows comes out with a new operating system about every two years. And the cost of computers has been declining for decades. After three years, a cheap laptop is ready to be replaced.

 

[Vince]

Nothing in the world drives people into a greater rage than warranties. So let me explain how laptop warranties work:

1) Warranties are written by legal experts to protect the company, not the buyer.
2) The company will do everything it can possibly do to get out of the warranty.
3) If the company CAN get out of the warranty, then the company IS out of the warranty.
4) If the company is out of the warranty, then it has no legal or moral obligation to help you.

When you buy a laptop, check on the store's return policy. If there is anything wrong with your new device, return it immediately, because getting the company to honor the warranty is going to be a very difficult experience.

 

[Vince]

And now it's time to talk about money.

Back in the 1990's Windows Magazine advised its readers never to buy a top of the line computer. They advised that you buy a middle of the road machine, and eighteen months later, use the money you saved to buy another middle of the road machine. Your second computer would be more powerful than the top of the line model you had planned to buy. I have always seen this to be true. When you buy a top of the line computer, most software doesn't need it. By the time software catches up with you, your machine is obsolete.

About a year ago, another tech writer advised people not to buy laptops. Use the money to buy an equivalent desktop and a cheap netbook instead. Surprised, I looked at prices and found that he was right. Netbooks are hard to find these days, but cheap laptops are not. Rather than an expensive laptop, but a good desktop and a cheap laptop for the same amount of money.

 

[turnorburn]

How about a cheap flash drive and pretend its an expensive Laptop? That's what I've done and its fast as fast can be, its called Puppy Linux Lucid 132 MB ISO you install on a flash drive using the Universal USB Installer, mines on a 4 GB drive.. Shall i continue or start a new thread?

http://puppylinux.org/main/Download Latest Release.htm

tob

 

[Vince]

If you start a new thread, Turnorburn, I'll read it. I can't get Linux onto my current Windows 8 computer no matter what I do.

 

[Vince]

The problem with mid-range laptops.

Loosely speaking, a mid-range laptop costs around $800. When people shell out that kind of money, they expect a laptop that does everything they want. They don't realize that at that price, a laptop can't possibly do everything they want, but the manufacturer can fake it.

On another forum, there were several complaints about a laptop that literally could do everything for $800. The problem was that it was packed with cheap parts and quickly developed hardware problems. Do you want a laptop with a touchscreen? The rest of the machine is cheapened up to absorb the cost. In other words, for $800, something has to go, but then people won't buy the machine. So something has to be cheapened up.

The best mid-range laptops have poor battery life. By saving costs there, the laptop can have better, longer-lasting parts elsewhere. But since you lose mobility, why not buy a much more powerful desktop instead?

 

[tim-from-pa]

If you start a new thread, Turnorburn, I'll read it. I can't get Linux onto my current Windows 8 computer no matter what I do.

Vince, Turnorburn:

Yes, this is what I was saying earlier, and basically Vince did not answer me. I suspect this is because of the UEFI in place of BIOS. It won't let you install another operating system over or next to Microsoft. If I buy a laptop, let me make myself clear:

I do not want windows.
I do not want windows.
I do not want windows.
I do not want windows.
I do not want windows.

I want Linux.
I want Linux.
I want Linux.
I want Linux.
I want Linux.

This new hardware is pairing up with the software companies I noticed, and it gets to the point you can't separate the two any longer. Whatever is loaded is loaded.

Macs are great, but expensive. Linux I jokingly call the "poor man's Mac" since the two operating systems work on the same basics and architecture. So, if I buy a Mac, I won't destroy it since I paid so much already, but some Microsoft's still come cheap, and the idea is to destroy the operating system and install Linux. It's still cheaper than buying a pre-installed Linux directly because you get a discount on the hardware with Microsoft on it.

That means I have to go back to building a computer from raw hardware again --- and I really don't feel like it. It's touchy, and I'm getting to be a shaky old man.

 

[Vince]

Tim, Old Buddy, you're making a valid point. Separating the installed Windows OS from a laptop can be done, but it usually can't be done well, if at all. The laptop's hardware and Windows are designed around each other. Even a different Windows OS will have problems.

Now, throw in the fact that the original OS contains the drivers for that specific laptop, and you're heading for trouble if you change the OS.

Remember, though, that I only recommend cheap laptops, that can't play high-tech games regardless of the OS. Windows does fine if you only want to surf the web, do word processing, and play a few simple games.

 

[Vince]

People don't realize that most mid-range laptops are bought for students. Whether high school or college, they want to play high-end games on their machine. And so you're paying for the ability to play high-end games on a machine that shouldn't be doing that, because the high temperatures will wear it out sooner. The costly graphics card won't do much to improve your web-surfing, but the manufacturer cheapened up other hardware to make up for the cost.

 

[Vince]

In order to do everything that people expect for $800, laptops have to sacrifice something. Often, they use cheap parts to hold their costs down. On another forum, an upset poster told about his desktop replacement laptop (a laptop with a large screen). It was a $500 laptop with a 17.3" screen and four gigs of RAM. Professional reviewers marvelled at how they had fit so much into a low-cost machine. They mentioned that the screen was only mediocre quality, the cheap graphics card couldn't play high-tech games, and it was slow. And then the customer reviews came pouring in. One enraged purchaser after another described different parts that broke down a few months after purchase.

How did the manufacturer do so much for such a low price? He used cheap parts.

 

[Vince]

How about a touchscreen for your mid-range laptop? A few months ago, that would add about $200 to the cost. Today you can buy VERY low-quality tablets for around $100 that have touchscreens. They can only connect to the internet by wireless (no DSL or cables), they have no keyboard, and they cannot use Windows. They only have one screen, and it is fully integrated with the entire tablet. But a laptop touchscreen is different.

Times might have changed, but a touchscreen laptop has two screens. The touchscreen is on top of the regular screen. And the software for the touchscreen is part of the Windows operating system, NOT THE MANUFACTURER'S SYSTEM. If the touchscreen fails, the warranty will not cover it, because it is a Microsoft problem. Microsoft will tell you to re-install Windows, and if that doesn't work, it is not their problem.

My advice? Because a laptop supports a real keyboard, you do not need a touchscreen. An $800 laptop with a touchscreen is a $600 laptop with unnecessary equipment.

 

[Vince]

Despite my best efforts, I cannot define the price level of a high-end laptop. However, I can define the phrase itself. A high-end laptop does everything a laptop can do, plus it has high-quality parts. The rugged keyboard actually feels good, the powerful video card will still be above average years from now, the case is made of high-quality material, you can actually drop it (don't do it) without breaking it, its screen gives bright graphics so powerful that your eye can't see much of it, it has more RAM than it will ever use, and it goes on the internet at the highest possible speed. The more you spend, the more rugged the parts will be, but your computing experience will not improve much. However, the appearance will get steadily better if you spend more.

If you insist on buying such a machine (and I advise you not to), let me give you a word of advice: Get one with a separate installation DVD, and with a separate DVD that contains the drivers. Many desktops include these two DVDs, while many laptops have them on the hard drive. In the next few days, I'll explain why you want these on two separate DVDs.