Christianity, American style

[civilwarbuff]

You still do have slaves in the US. There are most slaves now worldwide than during the entire Atlantic slave trade.

The question was: "What is the biblical injunction against the affordable care act?"

How does, "The bible says to obey the laws made by those over us but it does not say we cannot work to have those laws changed," answer that question?

Why don't you point out to me where in the bible it says that we are not allowed to work to change laws made by those appointed over us? We still have to obey them but no reason we can't work to change them. Now, I can't prove a negative (and won't even try) but if I am wrong then you should have no problem pointing out in scripture where I am wrong.

You still do have slaves in the US.

I don't know where you have been hiding since 1865 but it obviously has not been in the US.

On December 2, 1865, Alabama became the 27th state to ratify the 13th Amendment, thus giving it the requisite three-fourths majority of states’ approval necessary to make it the law of the land. Alabama, a former Confederate state, was forced to ratify the amendment as a condition for re-admission into the Union. On December 18, the 13th Amendment was officially adopted into the Constitution–246 years after the first shipload of captive Africans landed at Jamestown, Virginia, and were bought as slaves. History.com

 

[jasonc]

Don't have such a narrow view of slavery.

https://www.state.gov/j/tip/what/

https://www.freetheslaves.net/about-slavery/slavery-today/

https://www.ted.com/talks/kevin_bales_how_to_combat_modern_slavery#t-82751

All illegal.old news and the border wall reduce that .I have seen there rings busted here.

Also not the subject of what civilwarbuff was saying.we don't have to worry about being jailed for freeing sex, anf labor traffic victims.

In the south you could see jail for helping a slave escape.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Also not the subject of what civilwarbuff was saying.we don't have to worry about being jailed for freeing sex, anf labor traffic victims.

In the south you could see jail for helping a slave escape.

The federal fugitive slave acts of 1793 and 1850 comes to mind where a public official could be forced to assist in the apprehension of a runaway slave. Refusal to do so could result in fines and jail. Citizens could also be fined and jailed for assisting a runaway slave.

In response to the weakening of the original fugitive slave act, the Fugitive Slave Law of 1850 penalized officials who did not arrest an alleged runaway slave, and made them liable to a fine of $1,000 (about $29,000 in present-day value). Law-enforcement officials everywhere were required to arrest people suspected of being a runaway slave on as little as a claimant's sworn testimony of ownership. The suspected slave could not ask for a jury trial or testify on his or her own behalf.[6] In addition, any person aiding a runaway slave by providing food or shelter was subject to six months' imprisonment and a $1,000 fine. Officers who captured a fugitive slave were entitled to a bonus or promotion for their work. wiki

 

[Free]

Why don't you point out to me where in the bible it says that we are not allowed to work to change laws made by those appointed over us? We still have to obey them but no reason we can't work to change them. Now, I can't prove a negative (and won't even try) but if I am wrong then you should have no problem pointing out in scripture where I am wrong.

I just don't see where you answered the question. You wanted a direct answer, yet I just don't see yours.

I don't know where you have been hiding since 1865 but it obviously has not been in the US.

On December 2, 1865, Alabama became the 27th state to ratify the 13th Amendment, thus giving it the requisite three-fourths majority of states’ approval necessary to make it the law of the land. Alabama, a former Confederate state, was forced to ratify the amendment as a condition for re-admission into the Union. On December 18, the 13th Amendment was officially adopted into the Constitution–246 years after the first shipload of captive Africans landed at Jamestown, Virginia, and were bought as slaves. History.com

Do you always so easily dismiss facts that are inconvenient for you? Did you bother looking at the sources? Do I need to post more? If you desire to remain ignorant, that is your prerogative. That I am not American is completely, entirely, utterly irrelevant, especially when all three sources are American. If you want me to post more, let me know. Just because you don't see it and just because it is illegal, doesn't mean slavery doesn't exist in the US.

 

[Honey]

I just don't see where you answered the question. You wanted a direct answer, yet I just don't see yours.


Do you always so easily dismiss facts that are inconvenient for you? Did you bother looking at the sources? Do I need to post more? If you desire to remain ignorant, that is your prerogative. That I am not American is completely, entirely, utterly irrelevant, especially when all three sources are American. If you want me to post more, let me know. Just because you don't see it and just because it is illegal, doesn't mean slavery doesn't exist in the US.

CWB is correct that legal slavery does not exist in America. Most everyone knows slavery exists all over the world however. Including in Canada.

I think if people want to live their lives strictly adhering to the scriptures, we'd be in a lot of trouble as a nation because legalized slavery would not have been overturned by Christian activists in power.

"Increasing numbers of Christians are engaging in social and political activism for the astonishing purpose of attempting to coerce an ungodly society into adopting Christian standards of conduct. "Operation Rescue" is one example. Its founder, Randall Terry, explains that its purpose is to create social upheaval and thereby pressure government into changing the abortion laws. A typical brochure declares, "Rescues help produce the social tension necessary for political change...whether for good or bad, political change comes after groups of Americans bring enough tension to the nation and pressure on politicians that the laws are changed."

No matter how commendable the goal of such tactics, there is not one example in the entire Bible of political or social activism ever being advocated or used by God's people. That fact must weigh heavily upon any consideration of this important topic. There are numerous cases of civil disobedience in Scripture, but it was never engaged in for the purpose of forcing an ungodly society to obey biblical principles. The Hebrew midwives, for example, disobeyed Pharaoh's edict and spared the lives of the male babies, even lying to cover up their "rescue operation." God was so pleased with their obedience to Him that their names, Shiphrah and Puah, have been preserved for us (Ex 1:15-22). This was, however, a matter of individual conscience before God, not an organized attempt to pressure the pagan Egyptians by mass demonstrations into adopting Israel's God-given morals."
Source and complete article:CHRISTIAN ACTIVISM: IS IT BIBLICAL?
November 1, 1989

 

[jasonc]

I just don't see where you answered the question. You wanted a direct answer, yet I just don't see yours.


Do you always so easily dismiss facts that are inconvenient for you? Did you bother looking at the sources? Do I need to post more? If you desire to remain ignorant, that is your prerogative. That I am not American is completely, entirely, utterly irrelevant, especially when all three sources are American. If you want me to post more, let me know. Just because you don't see it and just because it is illegal, doesn't mean slavery doesn't exist in the US.

I'm fully aware that's not gone but the point was he was talking about the institutiion of
Slavery supported,and encouraged by the government and culture. Sex and labor traffic isn't openly by culture and the police bust those rings up.

In fact one a suggested possible way to reduce sex slavery is too legalize prostitution.I don't think that will work but we digress.

As far as labor traffic,hmm border walls,visa and limiting entry to certain points making it easier to control that.of course a boat ,bird can land elsewhere but it's a lot harder then crossing an open border.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I just don't see where you answered the question. You wanted a direct answer, yet I just don't see yours.

As I pointed out to you I cannot prove a negative. If you believe I am wrong please show the scripture; I am happy to acknowledge my error.

Do you always so easily dismiss facts that are inconvenient for you? Did you bother looking at the sources? Do I need to post more? If you desire to remain ignorant, that is your prerogative. That I am not American is completely, entirely, utterly irrelevant, especially when all three sources are American. If you want me to post more, let me know. Just because you don't see it and just because it is illegal, doesn't mean slavery doesn't exist in the US.

As jasonc pointed out to you what you are describing is criminal activity that is forbidden by federal, state, and local law. What I was talking about, slavery as existed before the end of the CW was legal and supported by federal, state, local law as well as state and the US Supreme Court. At that time a person could publicly in many states:
Buy or sell slaves at auction
Beat, whip, maim or kill a slave with impunity and frequently without fear of state interference
Force public officials to assist in the apprehension of runaways through fines and jail time
Fine or jail individuals who assisted runaway slaves
All children born by slaves were also considered slaves
And the biggest insult was the Dred Scott Decision:
Dred Scott decision, formally Dred Scott v. John F.A. Sandford, legal case in which the U.S. Supreme Court on March 6, 1857, ruled (7–2) that a slave (Dred Scott) who had resided in a free state and territory (where slavery was prohibited) was not thereby entitled to his freedom; that African Americans were not and could never be citizens of the United States; and that the Missouri Compromise (1820), which had declared free all territories west of Missouri and north of latitude 36°30′, was unconstitutional. The decision added fuel to the sectional controversy and pushed the country closer to civil war.
[Chief Justice Roger] Taney relied on historical analysis to support the Court's decision that Scott was not an Article-III citizen, and summarized the historical attitudes thusly:

[Black Africans imported as slaves] had for more than a century before been regarded as beings of an inferior order, and altogether unfit to associate with the white race, either in social or political relations; and so far inferior, that they had no rights which the white man was bound to respect; and that the negro might justly and lawfully be reduced to slavery for his benefit. He was bought and sold, and treated as an ordinary article of merchandise and traffic, whenever a profit could be made by it. This opinion was at that time fixed and universal in the civilized portion of the white race. It was regarded as an axiom in morals as well as in politics, which no one thought of disputing, or supposed to be open to dispute; and men in every grade and position in society daily and habitually acted upon it in their private pursuits, as well as in matters of public concern, without doubting for a moment the correctness of this opinion. wiki​

Sorry Free but you seem to fail to understand what we were discussing here.......

 

[Free]

CWB is correct that legal slavery does not exist in America. Most everyone knows slavery exists all over the world however. Including in Canada.

The initial statement and argument thus far had no mention of whether or not slavery was legal, only that it didn’t exist in America. Please review the discussion before jumping in the middle.

I think if people want to live their lives strictly adhering to the scriptures, we'd be in a lot of trouble as a nation because legalized slavery would not have been overturned by Christian activists in power.

"Increasing numbers of Christians are engaging in social and political activism for the astonishing purpose of attempting to coerce an ungodly society into adopting Christian standards of conduct. "Operation Rescue" is one example. Its founder, Randall Terry, explains that its purpose is to create social upheaval and thereby pressure government into changing the abortion laws. A typical brochure declares, "Rescues help produce the social tension necessary for political change...whether for good or bad, political change comes after groups of Americans bring enough tension to the nation and pressure on politicians that the laws are changed."

No matter how commendable the goal of such tactics, there is not one example in the entire Bible of political or social activism ever being advocated or used by God's people. That fact must weigh heavily upon any consideration of this important topic. There are numerous cases of civil disobedience in Scripture, but it was never engaged in for the purpose of forcing an ungodly society to obey biblical principles. The Hebrew midwives, for example, disobeyed Pharaoh's edict and spared the lives of the male babies, even lying to cover up their "rescue operation." God was so pleased with their obedience to Him that their names, Shiphrah and Puah, have been preserved for us (Ex 1:15-22). This was, however, a matter of individual conscience before God, not an organized attempt to pressure the pagan Egyptians by mass demonstrations into adopting Israel's God-given morals."
Source and complete article:CHRISTIAN ACTIVISM: IS IT BIBLICAL?
November 1, 1989

“Increasing numbers”? The likely problem is that the numbers decreased from the early Christians who, because of their faith, engaged highly in social activism.

Jas 1:27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world. (ESV)

Just one passage that supports social activism by Christians.

 

[Honey]

The initial statement and argument thus far had no mention of whether or not slavery was legal, only that it didn’t exist in America. Please review the discussion before jumping in the middle.

Please realize that it is presumptuous to imagine I didn't read the thread first. Also realize that your remarks there demonstrate you are unaware of Civil WarB's post otherwise I think in your haste to chastise me you would have reconsidered those first words,in bold so there is no mistaking that to which I refer.

"As jasonc pointed out to you what you are describing is criminal activity that is forbidden by federal, state, and local law. What I was talking about, slavery as existed before the end of the CW was legal and supported by federal, state, local law as well as state and the US Supreme Court. At that time a person could publicly in many states..."

 

[SytheF]

Churches grow out of communities. There's a give-and-take between churches and the surrounding culture. From what I've seen, --some-- branches of Protestantism are -much- too accommodating to the surrounding culture. To be fair, I don't think its a recent development; things just went a bit over the top w/ gay rights, abortion rights, gender deconstruction, etc.

So...it begs the question....how is Christianity different in America than elsewhere? I'm hoping that members here from other countries will chime in and share their observations.

Thanks.

The faith is being reformed yet again. Only this time it appears to be along the lines of materialist Humanist doctrines manipulating the scriptures to accommodate those who would like to have it all while having no morals.
And if someone seeking the faith turns on the television and happens on a mega-church congregation , or one that has a veritable rock concert playing before the sermon or in lieu of, that person with no experience in the faith thinks that is what it looks like to be in the faith.
It all stems from the warnings in the Bible. Even Satan can quote scripture. Now that he has media resources to expand his wordly reach and temporary kingdom he's going to exploit impressionable minds already being corrupted to his service by secular entities like school, higher and lower rung. Cultural norms arriving with liberal legislative permissions that concede to vulgar sins while punishing righteous indignation.
And of course the caps that are coming down on free speech. Which by proxy aligns with curbing free thought.

It's a repeat of the old testament world using contemporary verbiage and actors in a new testament atmosphere.
Repeating history till we get it righteous.

Writers disclaimer. The above is a personal Christian persons opinion and does not intend to insult nor be interpreted to lead anyone to believe I am right.