Cigarette Smoking Christians

[Pizzaguy]

Can anyone deny that we are responsible for much of the air pollution that exists today? Can anyone deny that we are responsible for much of the reason we can't safely drink water from most lakes, streams, and rivers today without boiling it or chemically treating it first?

So with that said, I can't help but wonder if we've created a double-standard where we look down on someone that smokes and claim they are not taking care of their bodies and yet take deep breathes of air that we continue to pollute more and more.

You do make a good point here, WIP.

 

[Mike]

I doubt it - what possible reason is there to pick up a cigarette and smoke it that is not sinful? I have great sympathy for the addictive character of cigarrettes, and I do not think smokers should be ostracized. But we need to face facts - smoking is an exceeding self-destructive behaviour that does nothing but bring ruin on individuals, families, and society.

The fact that something is hard to give up does not mean its not sin. Some people have powerful sex drives that are difficult to resist. Does that mean it is not sin when they have promiscuous sex?

We're going to have to agree to disagree. I don't see them as parallel, since I see sex outside of marriage as inherently sinful and smoking not. I'm not old enough to personally remember a time when cigarettes were considered perfectly acceptable, but there was a time when it was quite typical for most people to do it, and the notion of it being sinful was unheard of. From what I can see, the only time it became connected with sin for some people is when the hazardous health effects became known.

As I've said, I'm against smoking and have never done it myself, but I could see how someone might do it casually without a sinful component.

 

[Drew]

We're going to have to agree to disagree. I don't see them as parallel, since I see sex outside of marriage as inherently sinful and smoking not.

How can smoking not be sin? Is creation, including our bodies important to God? Of course! Does smoking cause horrible illness, suffering, early death, and needless expense? Of course.

How can it not be sin?

I really hope that your reasoning is not "its not prohibited in some specific rule" in the Bible.

I'm not old enough to personally remember a time when cigarettes were considered perfectly acceptable, but there was a time when it was quite typical for most people to do it, and the notion of it being sinful was unheard of. From what I can see, the only time it became connected with sin for some people is when the hazardous health effects became known.

Well of course. I would have no trouble with smoking if it wasn't unhealthy. But it is deadly! How can we not say that damaging the temple of the Holy Spirit is not sin?

 

[jasoncran]

well eating processed foods is a sin as those arent the greatest in large amounts albiet non-addictive

so then is lack of exercise. poor diet

also. pollution.

 

[mrroy1937]

Our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, so don't we need to take care of it? Smoking injurs it. Does that sound like caring for the temple of the Holy Spirit? Smoking is an addiction of the flesh. Are we not to walk in the Spirit and not the lure of the flesh?

 

[Mike]

How can smoking not be sin? Is creation, including our bodies important to God? Of course! Does smoking cause horrible illness, suffering, early death, and needless expense? Of course.

How can it not be sin?

I really hope that your reasoning is not "its not prohibited in some specific rule" in the Bible.


Well of course. I would have no trouble with smoking if it wasn't unhealthy. But it is deadly! How can we not say that damaging the temple of the Holy Spirit is not sin?

Our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, so don't we need to take care of it? Smoking injurs it. Does that sound like caring for the temple of the Holy Spirit? Smoking is an addiction of the flesh. Are we not to walk in the Spirit and not the lure of the flesh?

Can we not agree to disagree? I'm not a smoker, so I'm not trying to justify smoking for my own benefit. I believe if we're going to call this a sin because it's unhealthy, it can lead to a huge list of do's and don'ts, because many things we do or consume are not good for our health, and I'm just not legalistic enough to start checking them off.

You may not agree to disagree with me, but I'm going to agree to disagree with you.

 

[WIP]

well eating processed foods is a sin as those arent the greatest in large amounts albiet non-addictive

so then is lack of exercise. poor diet

also. pollution.

I believe if we're going to call this a sin because it's unhealthy, it can lead to a huge list of do's and don'ts, because many things we do or consume are not good for our health, and I'm just not legalistic enough to start checking them off.

This discussion is finally getting around to where my questions were pointing and I have to agree with Mike.

 

[jasoncran]

This discussion is finally getting around to where my questions were pointing and I have to agree with Mike.

you totally misunderstood me.

i was stated that if we do that then these things must also be a sin and hinting that where do we stop?

each of us me must be free enough to decide if we should eat something that may be bad for us if we dont watch it or if we like it is it a sin?

think about it

in paul's day pork like today without treating the animal prior to consumption is full of parasites

yet the gentiles had no such command from the church not to eat pork. and i'm sure they got parasites all the time and didnt know why.

were they sinning?

 

[Bonairos]

Bonairos - Seems to me that you made this question more difficult to answer by not stating why you are asking?

Riverwolf -

HAHA! And at post #35 nonetheless. First, I appreciate you asking questions in hopes of clarity (perhaps you read an earlier post I made on another thread). Asking questions reveals your desire to reply effectively.

Having said that, I purposely worded my OP as an open, ‘in general’ type of way. It’s not intended to solicit advice on a personal stance or action I may or may not have (tho, I thank you for asking). At least not at this time. LOL

As with any community (virtual or not) that I associate myself with, I tend to look around and see who passes through and what type of person they express themselves to be. Not in a judging sense of course, but more so in hopes of establishing a meaningful, effective relationship. (i.e. how to relate in hopes of finding common ground, how deep, how cordial, etc.)

Hence I ended the post with, “I'm interested to hear your opinion AND the manner in which you express them.†After all, it’s not only hearing what is said that we must take into account to be wise, but also what is NOT said; Let alone the passion (or lack thereof) and the attitude (spirit?) in which it is relayed.

I must admit, I enjoy monitoring this thread (as well as others). I’m learning who’s who and how I might better relate with them.

I intend to follow some of your postings.


Be blessed, Stay blessed!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

 

[Drew]

well eating processed foods is a sin as those arent the greatest in large amounts albiet non-addictive

so then is lack of exercise. poor diet

also. pollution.

I agree.

 

[Drew]

Can we not agree to disagree? I'm not a smoker, so I'm not trying to justify smoking for my own benefit. I believe if we're going to call this a sin because it's unhealthy, it can lead to a huge list of do's and don'ts, because many things we do or consume are not good for our health, and I'm just not legalistic enough to start checking them off.

You may not agree to disagree with me, but I'm going to agree to disagree with you.

You appear to believe that its "OK" for people to disagree on what sin is. Well, its not, really. Yes, we all the right to our opinions, but surely you realize that you don't have "your truth" and I do not have "my truth".

Also your line of argument seems to be that its legalism to have a list of "do's and don'ts". Well how does that work? Do you not have a "list" of do's and don'ts? I do. Here are some of the things on my "don't" list:

Murder
Adultery
Lying
Theft

Do you not also have a "list" with these things (if not others)?

Obviously, well-meaning Christians are going to disagree on whether certain things are sinful - such as smoking. And, in a sense, we should create an environment where we can disagree - all reasonable people want to be free to "disagree".

But this does not mean that both parties are "right". One is right, and one is wrong - and we accept that, at least until the one in the wrong (hopefully) comes around.

Smoking is injurious to one of God's greatest creation - the human being who smokes. It also injures the loved ones and the larger society. We must never fall into the error of thinking that sins against "the physical" are any less sins than sins that we call "spiritual". There simply is no such taxonomy of sin - its all sin.

 

[Pizzaguy]

Good logic, Drew - but just the same...

May I ask: How is your diet? What I mean is, what are YOU putting in your mouth that is harmful to your body and health?


(Not defending smokers or smoking. Not at all - but if I am jumped on for being "judgmental" then so should everyone else be! )

 

[reba]

Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.


In light of the above verse do we sin when posting?

Not everything is black or white. The gray parts of life change with our maturity, and other influences.

 

[Drew]

Good logic, Drew - but just the same...

May I ask: How is your diet? What I mean is, what are YOU putting in your mouth that is harmful to your body and health?


(Not defending smokers or smoking. Not at all - but if I am jumped on for being "judgmental" then so should everyone else be! )

My diet is extremely healthy - and I can say this with confidence. It has not always been that way, but it is now. Once I fully realized that my body is a temple, I started to take very good care of it.

No junk food (none) - no candy, no cake, no soda pop (except perhaps one diet pop in a month). No white bread. No caffeine. Almost no red meat (maybe once a month). Very low sugar intake - no sugar added to anything. No processed foods, no fast food.

I eat mountains of green stuff - at dinner I have a salad the size of half a basketball (with a tiny amount of dressing).

I am 5 feet 11 and weigh 165 pounds. If Free reads this (he has met me in person), yes I have lost weight since we met.

In short, while I cannot say this about all areas of my life, I am willing to claim that my diet is about as healthy as it possibly can be. And even though I have some health issues that may have some connection to past dietary indiscretions, I can confidently say that I feel better as a result of the healthy eating (most likely due to having a very good body weight for my age (52)).

Oh yes, no pizza.

 

[Drew]

Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.


In light of the above verse do we sin when posting?

Not everything is black or white. The gray parts of life change with our maturity, and other influences.

Not sure what your point is. Do you see "grey" in smoking? If so, what does that "grey" consist of? In what way is smoking anything but dreadfully damaging?

 

[reba]

Was smoking a sin 150 years ago? when no one thought there was any harm in it?
Some folks say a sip of alcohol is a sin yet i believe the scriptures say other wise.

I hate smoking very glad i quit. (quit June 17 1971) I know for me it would be sinful.

But we don't all learn or grow at the same pace.

You say in your post a diet soda maybe once a month. If diet soda is unhealthy like smoking is it ok to sin just a little bit? That is what i mean by gray. Your once in while soda is not sin nor does the other guys once in while smoke.
Does diet soda glorify the Lord? what good does it do? Just as Paul said to Tim have a little wine.



Drew sure sorry you don't have pizza at least once in a while maybe home made with olive oil, sundried tomatoes, peppers, onions, real cheese. Some of those spices are loaded with antioxidants.

 

[Drew]

Was smoking a sin 150 years ago? when no one thought there was any harm in it?

Of course not - if you do not know that something is bad for you, I do not see how it can be seen as "sin" (at least in the sense we normally ascribe to the concept of sin).

Some folks say a sip of alcohol is a sin yet i believe the scriptures say other wise.

Well, alchohol is an entirely different matter, and we are not talking about alchohol.

But we don't all learn or grow at the same pace.

What kind of argument is this? What if I were to say "I have not grown enough to know that banging another's man wife is sin?". I trust you see my point, even if the example is a little dramatic. Its simple:

1. We now know that smoking harms the body, wreaks pre-mature death and suffering, and costs health care dollars;

2. The human body is the temple of the Holy Spirit;

3. Therefore smoking is sin.

You say in your post a diet soda maybe once a month. If diet soda is unhealthy like smoking is it ok to sin just a little bit?

It is not right to sin "a little bit". To the extent that diet soda is bad for you (I am not sure that it is, but that's not the point), I am indeed sinning when I drink a diet soda.

Drew sure sorry you don't have pizza at least once in a while maybe home made with olive oil, sundried tomatoes, peppers, onions, real cheese. Some of those spices are loaded with antioxidants.

I am fully aware of this. But the point is that I can get all these anti-oxidants from other sources. This argument is not about pizza - I can fully understand that pizza is "healthy" for some people. I was just answering PizzaGuy's question and trying to make a joke.

The issue here is smoking, not soda pop or pizza. There is presently no doubt - smoking has no health benefits, and only causes harm (and serious harm at that). It is clearly sin.

 

[Lehigh3]

Really. Sure our bodies are holy temples & we shouldn't pollute them. But that's a health issue. What about gluttony? Do we sure look like sinners if we are overweight? I think we are acting prideful if we start point fingers instead of trying to help or understand others problems.

I didn't quit smoking bc it was a sin. I quit 2 yrs. ago bc it was a health hazard.

Didn't gain any weight either. Ask me how I did it @ ...justkidding.com! lol.

 

[Bonairos]

The issue here is smoking, not soda pop or pizza. There is presently no doubt - smoking has no health benefits, and only causes harm (and serious harm at that). It is clearly sin.

Drew -

Just for clarity, could one conclude you are saying that if something has no health benefits and only causes harm, it is clearly sin? Or does this just apply to smoking cigarettes?

I am enjoying the dialog on this thread.


Be blessed, Stay blessed!

 

[Pizzaguy]

My diet is extremely healthy - and I can say this with confidence. It has not always been that way, but it is now. Once I fully realized that my body is a temple, I started to take very good care of it.

No junk food (none) - no candy, no cake, no soda pop (except perhaps one diet pop in a month). No white bread. No caffeine. Almost no red meat (maybe once a month). Very low sugar intake - no sugar added to anything. No processed foods, no fast food.

I"m not doing as well as you, but then, I'm two years younger so I have more time!

I have about 20 pound on you, not sure I want to loose anymore.

I am not as fanatical as you, I like coffee when it's cold outside and I drink colas (but NO diet drinks - don't get me started about that...) - but I also eat way more greens and fruits/veggies than I once did. I also exercise regularly - that is, almost daily.

Seriously, smoking is just bad, bad, bad, bad and bad. It is undeniable what it does to your last few years on earth - makes them very uncomfortable and un-enjoyable. My mother and to some extent, my father voiced this truth before she (they) died.