"clobber verses"

[Christ_empowered]

Its a term gay-affirming Christian groups have used, now and then, to describe Scripture's (fairly clear...) prohibition on sodomy. I don't agree with calling verses "clobber verses" in -that- context (Scripture is, after all, fairly clear about same-sex stuff being a no-go...), --but--...

I -do- see merit in the -concept- behind "clobber verses." When I was down and out, -some- (note: not all, but some) church people threw judgment my way, armed with carefully selected Bible verses. The effect was...well, if they were trying to shame me into going to Jesus, then the effect was the exact opposite of what they were going for. If they were just trying to cut me down so they could feel (self) righteous, then...well done.

So...clearly, Scripture -is- there for exhortation, for admonishment, for encouragement, for rebuke (when necessary...). I'm not questioning that. What I'm trying to start a discussion on is...how do we deal with those in darkness, when its time to "speak the truth in love" ? And...how do we deal with errant Christians?

What do y'all think? I've personally found that sharing -any- Scripture with many unbelievers can kill conversations. Seriously. One of my acquaintances, semi-friends...she was telling me about this intensive new talk therapy she was in. So, she said something like "my therapist said that if we're judgmental towards others, we'll end up being judgmental towards ourselves," to which I responded "judge not lest ye yourselves be judged," because it seemed appropriate, at the time. Her face flushed, and that was pretty much the end of that conversation. I walked away...not sure what to think, how to feel, about the situation.

OK. Thanks.

 

[for_his_glory]

The old saying says you can can catch more with honey. Many things people do they do not realize it is an abomination to God because they do not know them. Another saying is that people want to clean the fish before they catch them. If people were to clean themselves up before coming to the Lord then no one could come to Him.

We are to be seed planters as we take the Gospel message out to the world and to take it out with love for others no matter who they are. Who of us are without sin or who of us were perfect before we came to Christ. Judge not lest ye be judged. Truth is found in Christ whether we want to hear it or not. Change comes through Christ, but we have to be willing to conform ourselves to all truth in order to make a change that we are pleasing to the Father.

 

[for_his_glory]

duplicate

 

[Christ_empowered]

thanks for the response, FHG.

Its just...well, I think bringing up Scripture and Truth can be rough going w/ people in and of the world. The incident I shared in my 1st post wasn't even confrontational. I just thought of the verse, said it, and that shut the conversation down. Boom. I cannot imagine what would have happened if I'd brought up Scripture that condemned certain sins ((shudder)).

To be fair to those "church people" who condemned me, I -was- living a life of unrepentant sin and darkness. I was also very sick and desperately in need of care and guidance. The world (which, to me, includes a lot of "church people") doesn't offer those damaged by sin much of anything, except punishment and condemnation. Thankfully...

in addition to my parents, I have --1-- real Christian friend I talk to almost daily. Its...crazy. I think every Christian needs at least 1 close, Christian friend who is more seasoned in the faith. Building disciples just doesn't seem to be happening as much, and I think a lot of it is because of -social factors-, not necessarily moral failings of people in the church.

Anyway...I just...don't know how Christians should "deal" with people in darkness. I pray for the people I can think of still existing in darkness, even though most of them may never see me, ever again. I doubt Bible verses would mean much to them, especially coming from me.

"Church people" are a fact of life...another part of what -was- my crash course in "the real world," lol.

Thanks again for your reply.

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

I do find it amazing Christ died for sinners to cover sin, and people think lecturing people on sin is greater. Cast the first stone. Who can hold Jesus code of conduct perfect. No one, he just spoke the truth and would have known no one can live up to Gods standard but he's not going to lie. He gave a perfect code of conduct for all his followers to live up to. Who can do it. Who can live up to Gods standard even to the lust of an eye.