Could The USA Be Babylon?

[Edward]

I'm reading Revelation and got a little scare this morning. It's talking about end times and Babylon. The OT Babylon was a great city of commerce, but is no more. Read these two chapters with a mind of the USA and how we are and note the similarities.

Revelation 17: 1-18

1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth./

Revelation 18: 1-24

1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth./

The USA's presence is felt all over the world. We have joined with or conquered many other nations. We are in a state of serious moral decay. We have military presence in a lot of different nations. (Sits on many waters and seven mountains), It says Babylon will fall in one hour. Someone is going to nuke us off the map. The only candle that shines in these two chapters for us is 18: 4. Which could hint at rapture for us. What do you all think?

 

[Mitspa]

I must say edward that I have seen the same thing! I have always upheld this country and served with honors in our military. But as I grow in Christ, I see more and more how this country could represent the "babylon" of Revalation? I believe the towers of New York were a sign of this in some way? I have not been granted to understand what it all means? But some of those scriptures seem to speak right to those events?

 

[Sinthesis]

I remember when I was younger how I held similar thoughts, but then I grew up and put away childish things. The USA is not Babylon. They share some characteristics of course, but they are not the same.

 

[digging]

I would like to say the reason we can see this match is because the USA is part of Babylon the Great, but not the whole. Babylon the Great is a global system..... This modern global industrial consumer civilization.

Digging

 

[Mitspa]

i see alot of truth in what you are saying digging!

as far as the other statement? One must bcome a fool to be made wise!

 

[Edward]

ut then I grew up and put away childish things.

I am certainly not saying that I know any of this to be fact. Just wanting to toss it around a little because some of the verses seemed to jump up at me as if they were describing the USA. If this seems childish, it is no surprise as I am as a child in spiritual matters and as unto God. Certainly I am foolish, but this is where I am as a man and a child of God. I can take what you said as a compliment of sorts.

Just doing my homework brother and seeking more understanding as a good student would. Anyway, back on topic. Babylon the Great a Global system? Is not the US Government leading into the NWO? Which is primarily a one world bank and military? Is it's main drive not coming from the US?

 

[digging]

I agree the USA is a large player but what is coming involves the whole world. At this time I see Her as 'civilization' itself. what do I mean by that? Well after looking at that famous early city Babel I began to see her this way. What really IS civilization anyways?? It seems there are two kinds of systems people have live with, one of small villages mixed with nomadic cycles of seasonal living and the other of building large walled or guarded cites for year round living.

The next question to ask ourselves is Why do we want to build cities/civilization in the first place? I have A theory that city building is a collective response by the human race to dealing with the curse from Adams fall. We all are mortal and need shelter, water and food but our sinful nature wants MORE than we ever really NEED. So we have worked together and through this collective work we have been able to create a system that can indulge the flesh completely beyond our basic needs. That is why she shown as a harlot

Look at this vs

Revelation 18:14 NAS

"The fruit you long for has gone from you, and all things that were luxurious and splendid have passed away from you and men will no longer find them.

Recall the first sin was also about 'wanting' a fruit they didn't need!

Also this vs.
Revelation 16:19 NAS

The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. Babylon the great was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of His fierce wrath.

So I fell very strongly that Babylon the Great is the global collective civilization mankind has made that we all clearly see is taking wayyyy more than it needs from the earth, other people and even other life on this planet mainly to just indulge sinful flesh.

History is filled with ruins of past collapsed civilizations. The collapse of this global civiization is going to be the greatest event ever seen and God has fortold us in the book of Revelation.

Digging

 

[King James]

The United States was created for the sole purpose bringing on a one world government. There are documents uncovered from the founding fathers indicating this fact.

 

[Mitspa]

I know as my spiritual senses have learned to decern what is Good and evil. For most of what man sees as good is often that which is most contrary to Gods plans and purpose. One can see this in the system of religion that wanted to destroy Christ. We see it yet today, that in the name of God, religion of man would replace the Holy Spirit in the "church". They will even put the Holy Spirit in a smoking can if they are allowed?
So most of what is done in the name of God is actually at work against His Will. satan always comes and works in the mask of religion and in the name of god.
The free masons, mormons , and others are all good examples of those who cloak themselves in religion and the appearance of good, but are really just about gaining power and control.
Some well known churches are also all part of satans kingdom and attempt to overcome Christ and His people.

Good is basically that which is of the Spirit. evil is basically that which comes from mans desires and satans deceptions.

So my point again is that as I see true and pure good in Christ, I see that which opposes His truth the most, always comes in his name.

"Anti-christ" in the basic sense of the Greek? is that which would "put itself in His place" I think much of what we see, in our own country would do that very thing.

 

[digging]

I have heard of this idea of a one world gov't but I don't see that idea fitting properly with what is said in Daniel.

Daniel 2:44 NAS

[The Divine Kingdom] "In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people ; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.

This is pural as in more than one, so it seems the bible is telling us the world will not have a single gov't at the return of Christ.

Digging

 

[Mitspa]

I dont see your point digging? You almost seem to say two different things in your last two post? satan is the god of this world! although the harlot that rides on the back of the beast may appear to make war? They are still anti-christ. satans only plan is to destroy the annointed of God. How he does that? he dont really care, but it does seem he will have complete control of most of the modern world at some point near the end. I think it is clear that the move towards world government and world religion are clear signs of those things we see in Revelation.
But this is not what I am called to. I am called to the gospel of His Glory. But I can see those things that are clear.

 

[Edward]

Lots of thought provoking material in this thread.

 

[wayseer]

Babylon represents Rome. Rome controlled the then known world. The US does not exactly 'control' the world. China and Europe probably would not let that happen. The US is flat out trying to 'control' its own citizens and I understand some 300 000 drones are earmarked to peek into Americans lives next year.

 

[reba]

There is nothing coming that God is not in control of...

 

[Mitspa]

Yes God is in control! He wrote a book over 2000 years ago telling us to watch and be ready. I do not think that most who call themselves christians, have been watching much but the TV? and I doubt that most are ready for a real trial of their faith. So all who just kinda brush the issue aside are welcome to there own veiws? I heard there was some really good TV shows coming out this year!

 

[Edward]

I have prayed and read and and feel this is my heart that the US must be Babylon. There is too much scripture to back it up already, for it to be wrong. No nation or city has such influence on the world for as the US does. They call New York the financial capital of the world, and everything is there. The NY Stock Exchange, the United Nations, one of if not the largest shipping ports in the world, the lady in the harbor, everyone has offices there, it all fits. Perhaps God has delayed judging the US because up until recently we supported Israel. The US will fall, and in one hour, per Revelation 18: 10,

No other city or nation has such control or reach as the US, and specifically, New York. Rome certainly doesn't. I've heard people joke before that we aren't ruled from Washington D.C., but New York. This is scary stuff folks. The US is arrogant, rejects God as a nation, is moving us toward a NWO and speaks of Global government. They've even began killing Christians. Remember Randy Weaver and Waco? The sad part is that the nation was cheering them on while they did it! This humbles me to think about. It makes me want to get down on my knees and make sure that I am right with God.

Some parallel references to some of what I have been reading are thus:
Isaiah 14:46
Habukkuk 1: 6-10, 2: 4-5
Jeremiah 51:25
Jeremiah 51: 44
Revelation 13: 7-8, 17: 18, 18: 24

 

[reba]

the Waco leaders were not Christian....

 

[Edward]

the Waco leaders were not Christian....

They were purported to be. Whether they were before God or not is not for me to judge. They still killed them and all the children which is more the point.

 

[John 8:32]

The U.S. is not Babylon. The U.S. will feel the wrath of Babylon...

Eze 5:1 And thou, son of Adam, take thee a sharp sword, as a barber's rasor shalt thou take it, and cause it to pass upon thine head and upon thy beard: then take thee balances to weight, and divide the hair.
Eze 5:2 Thou shalt burn with fire a third part in the midst of the city, when the days of the siege are completed: and thou shalt take a third part, and smite about it with the sword: and a third part thou shalt scatter to the wind; and I will draw out a sword after them.
Eze 5:3 Thou shalt also take thereof a few in number, and bind them in thy skirts.
Eze 5:4 Then take of them again, and cast them into the midst of the fire, and burn them in the fire; for thereof shall a fire come forth into all the house of Israel [less Judah].

Eze 5:12 A third part of thee shall die with the pestilence, and with famine shall they be consumed in the midst of thee: and a third part shall fall by the sword round about thee and I will scatter a third part into all quarters, and I will draw out a sword after them.
Eze 5:13 Thus shall Mine anger be accomplished, and I will cause My fury to rest upon them, and I will be comforted: and they shall know that I the LORD have spoken it in My zeal, when I have accomplished My fury in them.
Eze 5:14 Moreover I will make thee waste, and a reproach among the nations that are round about thee, in the sight of all that pass by.
Eze 5:15 So it shall be a reproach and a taunt, an instruction and an astonishment among the nations that are round about thee, when I shall execute judgments in thee in anger and in fury and in furious rebukes. I the LORD have spoken it.
Eze 5:16 When I shall send upon them the evil arrows of famine, who shall be for their destruction, and which I will send to destroy you: and I will increase the famine upon you, and will break your staff of bread:
Eze 5:17 So will I send upon you famine and evil beasts, and they shall bereave thee; and pestilence and blood shall pass through thee; and I will bring the sword upon thee. I the LORD have spoken it.

Isa 6:8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
Isa 6:9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
Isa 6:10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
Isa 6:11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,
Isa 6:12 And the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.
Isa 6:13 But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.

We (U.S., Britain, Canada, Australia and South Africa) will be reduced to one tenth of our population.

 

[Slider]

THe US is not babylon, but is pretty damn close to it. The US is in prophecy, though.... We are a great nation built on freedom of religion. That in itself is both a curse and a blessing.