Bible Study Did God intend the Temple to be built?

[JohnD]

2 Samuel 7:1-13 (KJV)
1 And it came to pass, when the king sat in his house, and the LORD had given him rest round about from all his enemies;
2 That the king said unto Nathan the prophet, See now, I dwell in an house of cedar, but the ark of God dwelleth within curtains.
3 And Nathan said to the king, Go, do all that is in thine heart; for the LORD is with thee.
4 And it came to pass that night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan, saying,
5 Go and tell my servant David, Thus saith the LORD, Shalt thou build me an house for me to dwell in?
6 Whereas I have not dwelt in any house since the time that I brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt, even to this day, but have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle.
7 In all the places wherein I have walked with all the children of Israel spake I a word with any of the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people Israel, saying, Why build ye not me an house of cedar?
8 Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel:
9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth.
10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,
11 And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house.
12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

Zechariah 6:12-13 (KJV)
12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Or did God compromise with the Jews the way he did with the monarchy (1 Samuel 8)?

Clearly David and Solomon claim their interpretation of 2 Samuel 12-13 as a "yes, God did." But when you study it in detail you come across scriptures that merely record what David and Solomon said... without confirming their claims anywhere else in scripture. The Bible does record what people say that is not actually true but the biblical record is only the historic quoting of the person. The letter of Claudias Lysias (Acts 23) for example. And the interpretations of the Syrians in 1 Kings 20 who believed the Lord was the God of the hills only and not the valleys.

In fact Zechariah 6:12-13 speaks of the builder of God's temple which could only be Jesus Christ.

1. whose name is The BRANCH
2. he shall bear the glory
3. and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne

The only Levitical ruler that even came close to being like the ruler Jesus was Moses, and he was never coronated and never reigned. Furthermore, Moses was never actually a priest.

The temple of God unlike the dead stone buildings of the Jewish temples was always intended to be of living stones:

Matthew 16:18 (KJV)
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

1 Corinthians 3:16-18 (KJV)
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

1 Peter 2:3-9 (KJV)
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Further...

Hebrews 8:5 (KJV)
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Tabernacle. No temple mentioned.

Acts 7:46-50 (KJV)
46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob.
47 But Solomon built him an house.
48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
50 Hath not my hand made all these things?

Once Israel went down the path of the monarchy and the temple, they were seldom in God's good graces for any length of time until both were vanquished.

Lastly, on this and most things biblical that runs afoul of the traditions of men prepare for antagonism, unbelief, nasty behavior toward you, endless arguments, people devoting their lives to oppose you in anything you say or do... but the truth is always worth it. Jesus is worth it.

 

[JLB]

2 Samuel 7:1-13 (KJV)
1 And it came to pass, when the king sat in his house, and the LORD had given him rest round about from all his enemies;
2 That the king said unto Nathan the prophet, See now, I dwell in an house of cedar, but the ark of God dwelleth within curtains.
3 And Nathan said to the king, Go, do all that is in thine heart; for the LORD is with thee.
4 And it came to pass that night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan, saying,
5 Go and tell my servant David, Thus saith the LORD, Shalt thou build me an house for me to dwell in?
6 Whereas I have not dwelt in any house since the time that I brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt, even to this day, but have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle.
7 In all the places wherein I have walked with all the children of Israel spake I a word with any of the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people Israel, saying, Why build ye not me an house of cedar?
8 Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel:
9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth.
10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,
11 And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house.
12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

Zechariah 6:12-13 (KJV)
12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Or did God compromise with the Jews the way he did with the monarchy (1 Samuel 8)?

Clearly David and Solomon claim their interpretation of 2 Samuel 12-13 as a "yes, God did." But when you study it in detail you come across scriptures that merely record what David and Solomon said... without confirming their claims anywhere else in scripture. The Bible does record what people say that is not actually true but the biblical record is only the historic quoting of the person. The letter of Claudias Lysias (Acts 23) for example. And the interpretations of the Syrians in 1 Kings 20 who believed the Lord was the God of the hills only and not the valleys.

In fact Zechariah 6:12-13 speaks of the builder of God's temple which could only be Jesus Christ.

1. whose name is The BRANCH
2. he shall bear the glory
3. and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne

The only Levitical ruler that even came close to being like the ruler Jesus was Moses, and he was never coronated and never reigned. Furthermore, Moses was never actually a priest.

The temple of God unlike the dead stone buildings of the Jewish temples was always intended to be of living stones:

Matthew 16:18 (KJV)
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

1 Corinthians 3:16-18 (KJV)
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

1 Peter 2:3-9 (KJV)
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Further...

Hebrews 8:5 (KJV)
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Tabernacle. No temple mentioned.

Acts 7:46-50 (KJV)
46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob.
47 But Solomon built him an house.
48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
50 Hath not my hand made all these things?

Once Israel went down the path of the monarchy and the temple, they were seldom in God's good graces for any length of time until both were vanquished.

Lastly, on this and most things biblical that runs afoul of the traditions of men prepare for antagonism, unbelief, nasty behavior toward you, endless arguments, people devoting their lives to oppose you in anything you say or do... but the truth is always worth it. Jesus is worth it.

The Tabernacle contained many shadows of Christ.

For a tabernacle was prepared: the first part, in which was the lampstand, the table, and the showbread, which is called the sanctuary; 3 and behind the second veil, the part of the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of All, 4 which had the golden censer and the ark of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, Aaron's rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant; 5 and above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat. Of these things we cannot now speak in detail. Hebrews 9:2-5


JLB

 

[reba]

Are the tabernacle and the temple the same?

 

[Willie T]

2 Samuel 7:1-13 (KJV)
1 And it came to pass, when the king sat in his house, and the LORD had given him rest round about from all his enemies;
2 That the king said unto Nathan the prophet, See now, I dwell in an house of cedar, but the ark of God dwelleth within curtains.
3 And Nathan said to the king, Go, do all that is in thine heart; for the LORD is with thee.
4 And it came to pass that night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan, saying,
5 Go and tell my servant David, Thus saith the LORD, Shalt thou build me an house for me to dwell in?
6 Whereas I have not dwelt in any house since the time that I brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt, even to this day, but have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle.
7 In all the places wherein I have walked with all the children of Israel spake I a word with any of the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people Israel, saying, Why build ye not me an house of cedar?
8 Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel:
9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth.
10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,
11 And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house.
12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

Zechariah 6:12-13 (KJV)
12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Or did God compromise with the Jews the way he did with the monarchy (1 Samuel 8)?

Clearly David and Solomon claim their interpretation of 2 Samuel 12-13 as a "yes, God did." But when you study it in detail you come across scriptures that merely record what David and Solomon said... without confirming their claims anywhere else in scripture. The Bible does record what people say that is not actually true but the biblical record is only the historic quoting of the person. The letter of Claudias Lysias (Acts 23) for example. And the interpretations of the Syrians in 1 Kings 20 who believed the Lord was the God of the hills only and not the valleys.

In fact Zechariah 6:12-13 speaks of the builder of God's temple which could only be Jesus Christ.

1. whose name is The BRANCH
2. he shall bear the glory
3. and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne

The only Levitical ruler that even came close to being like the ruler Jesus was Moses, and he was never coronated and never reigned. Furthermore, Moses was never actually a priest.

The temple of God unlike the dead stone buildings of the Jewish temples was always intended to be of living stones:

Matthew 16:18 (KJV)
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

1 Corinthians 3:16-18 (KJV)
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

1 Peter 2:3-9 (KJV)
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Further...

Hebrews 8:5 (KJV)
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Tabernacle. No temple mentioned.

Acts 7:46-50 (KJV)
46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob.
47 But Solomon built him an house.
48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
50 Hath not my hand made all these things?

Once Israel went down the path of the monarchy and the temple, they were seldom in God's good graces for any length of time until both were vanquished.

Lastly, on this and most things biblical that runs afoul of the traditions of men prepare for antagonism, unbelief, nasty behavior toward you, endless arguments, people devoting their lives to oppose you in anything you say or do... but the truth is always worth it. Jesus is worth it.

I quit reading most of your posts quite some time ago. But maybe I'll have to begin checking them out again. This one sounds like you are discovering some of the truths many of us miss.

 

[Malachi]

Did God intend the Temple to be built?

Of course He did. He gave Solomon the exact design of the first Temple, and He gave Ezekiel the exact design of the final Temple.
That Temple will be in Jerusalem for eternity.

To answer Reba's question, the Tabernacle was a prototype of the Temple. The tabernacle was designed to be moved as the Israelites moved. David purposed to build a permanent "dwelling place" for the Tabernacle, but Solomon was given that privilege. Thus the Tabernacle became the Temple.

At the same time, God has built His Church. This too is God's spiritual Building, and every Christian's body is "the temple of the Holy Ghost".

At the same time there is presently a Temple in Heaven, and the heavenly pattern was reproduced on earth. An actual heavenly sanctuary exists in Heaven. One day there will be no need for this Temple according to Scripture.

Why do Christians try to limit God and focus exclusively on the Church? We are not to limit the Holy One of Israel.

 

[Deborah13]

Does anyone know what was behind the veil in the second temple? They didn't have the ark any longer when it was built, correct?

 

[Willie T]

Does anyone know what was behind the veil in the second temple? They didn't have the ark any longer when it was built, correct?

The veil was the Jewish understanding of the boundary between earth and heaven.

 

[Deborah13]

The veil was the Jewish understanding of the boundary between earth and heaven.

Thank you, I do understand that.
What I was asking is what physically, literally was behind the veil, seeing that they no longer had the ark that used to be placed there in the tabernacle and in the first temple?

I'm thinking that God removing the ark from their possession was almost a prophecy in itself or something to prepare them for a new understanding of what/who the real ark was. Like a stepping stone.

 

[Willie T]

Is there a reason some item or article would have to be back there?

 

[Malachi]

Does anyone know what was behind the veil in the second temple? They didn't have the ark any longer when it was built, correct?

According to Unger's Bible Dictionary and his reading of the Talmud, a stone was set up "where the ark should have stood". Since there is nothing in Ezra-Nehemiah to confirm this, it could be just a legend.

 

[reba]

What a violation to the laws given to the Moses..

 

[Willie T]

What a violation to the laws given to the Moses..

But, like Deb said, a definite foretelling of Jesus. God never, originally, intended to give those laws.

 

[reba]

I agree... God laid out the tabernacle plans .. said to put the ark where He said leave it to mankind to FIX it..

 

[Deborah13]

According to Unger's Bible Dictionary and his reading of the Talmud, a stone was set up "where the ark should have stood". Since there is nothing in Ezra-Nehemiah to confirm this, it could be just a legend.

I have an Unger's and didn't even think to look there, thanks. I'll look it up, I'm curious to see if they claim God told them to do this or if they just couldn't let go of the physical. If God's holy presence was not enough for them.

 

[Sinthesis]

Yes, God intended the Jewish temple to be built under Solomon (1Ch 28:5,6), and even rebuilt under Cyrus (2Ch 36:22,23). Yet the temple, much like the tabernacle, was only ever meant to be a temporary physical shadow of the eternal spiritual temple to come, which we know today as the Body of Christ. The Jewish temple served its purpose well enough for Jesus to cleanse it and teach there. We get nowhere when we criticize prophetic types for being less than their antitype.

 

[reba]

very interesting Sinthesis

 

[Deborah13]

Unger's goes on the say under 'temple' that after Herod the Great restored and enlarged the second temple that the rabbinical writers said that the Holy Place contained only one golden candlestick, a single table of showbread, and one altar of incense.
The veil hung between there and the Holy of Holies but that the Holy of Holies was now empty.

 

[Karl]

"Did God intend the Temple to be built?"

Interesting why you should ask, but I think these verses answer the question.

And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; Mat 27:51
And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom. Mar 15:38
And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. Luke 23:45

Asking this question is like opening a can of worms,

Does God need man's help?
Does God use what man has made?
Does God share His glory with man by putting His seal of approval on what man has done?

And many more questions that arise to confuse the untaught or young in the Lord.

 

[JLB]

"Did God intend the Temple to be built?"

Interesting why you should ask, but I think these verses answer the question.

And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; Mat 27:51
And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom. Mar 15:38
And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. Luke 23:45

Asking this question is like opening a can of worms,

Does God need man's help?
Does God use what man has made?
Does God share His glory with man by putting His seal of approval on what man has done?

And many more questions that arise to confuse the untaught or young in the Lord.

You have stated that God doesn't need mans help.

Man himself is the Temple of God today.

God has chosen to dwell in the hearts of men, in a divine cooperation between God and man.

Concerning the physical Temple God say, through the mouth of the man Isaiah -

26 Who confirms the word of His servant, And performs the counsel of His messengers; Who says to Jerusalem, 'You shall be inhabited,' To the cities of Judah, 'You shall be built,' And I will raise up her waste places; 27 Who says to the deep, 'Be dry! And I will dry up your rivers'; 28 Who says of Cyrus, 'He is My shepherd, And he shall perform all My pleasure, Saying to Jerusalem, "You shall be built," And to the temple, "Your foundation shall be laid." ' Isaiah 44:26-28

Who built the Temple in Jerusalem?

God Himself, with no help from man, or God's people.

 

[eddif]

II Corinthians 3:14
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

Deuteronomy 30:6
And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

The veil is the hardness of heart. The word is hidden in hearts of stone (the law), or hearts of flesh (new birth / born again).

eddif