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Did King David lose his salvation after he sinned?
- Thread starter Classik
- Start date
Davies
Member
Hi Classik,
As Christians, do we lose our salvation when we sin? I would suspect you don't think we lose our salvation, and I don't think David lost his either. David was well disciplined by God through the rest of his life, and we know that God disciplines those He loves. I think when God forgave David, He took great pleasure and joy in doing so. It's one of the main ways God glorifies Himself.
- Davies
As Christians, do we lose our salvation when we sin? I would suspect you don't think we lose our salvation, and I don't think David lost his either. David was well disciplined by God through the rest of his life, and we know that God disciplines those He loves. I think when God forgave David, He took great pleasure and joy in doing so. It's one of the main ways God glorifies Himself.
- Davies
farouk
Member
C: Communion can be marred and broken. But this does not take away God's covenantal relationship.
Remember, too, that David was an Old Testament saint before Pentecost, after which believers in the Lord Jesus have been born again, and sealed by His Spirit. Acts 2 has an important account of the early days of the new dispensation.
Remember, too, that David was an Old Testament saint before Pentecost, after which believers in the Lord Jesus have been born again, and sealed by His Spirit. Acts 2 has an important account of the early days of the new dispensation.
David was a man after God's own heart because after his sin with Bathsheba was exposed, David truly repented. He made many mistakes
in his family relationships and his sin of disobeying God in taking many wives, still he was a true worshipper of God who obeyed God in other
situations. However, it was his repentance and reliance on God's grace that made him so special.
Immediately after his sin I doubt if he had much of a relationship with God. He was probably
miserable in his backslidden state. And he paid for his sin by the loss of the child conceived in adultry as well as in his relationships with his children. His son contended with him for the throne and was as bad as Saul in trying to hunt him down to kill him. Yet he maintained Godly attitudes toward Saul and toward Absalom throughout his trials of being hunted down.
in his family relationships and his sin of disobeying God in taking many wives, still he was a true worshipper of God who obeyed God in other
situations. However, it was his repentance and reliance on God's grace that made him so special.
Immediately after his sin I doubt if he had much of a relationship with God. He was probably
miserable in his backslidden state. And he paid for his sin by the loss of the child conceived in adultry as well as in his relationships with his children. His son contended with him for the throne and was as bad as Saul in trying to hunt him down to kill him. Yet he maintained Godly attitudes toward Saul and toward Absalom throughout his trials of being hunted down.
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Classik
Member
King David's Adultery and Murder
A common argument cited for eternal security goes like this: "King David lost only the joy of his salvation by his adultery and murder. In Psa. 51:12 he only prayedto have the joy of his salvation restored. Also, he was 'a man after God's own heart' and wrote part of the Bible." So, when King David sinned with adultery and murder, did he really remain saved, as so many want us to believe?
To say King David did not lose his salvation because of his sins of adultery and murder is to rebut Scripture (1 Cor. 6:9,10; Rev. 21:8; etc.) and at the same time, teach a license for immorality! Just because King David prayed to have the joy of his salvation "restored" doesn't mean he didn't previously lose his salvation, which according to the aforementioned verses, clearly occurred. NOTE: The context of Psalm 51 is after 2 Sam. 12:13 (where King David was declared forgiven). So after he was forgiven he wrote Psalm 51 and asked forthe joy of his salvation to be restored! The context changes everything! Furthermore, Psalm 51:1 starts off with David's prayer which is almost identical to the prayer in Luke 18:13, which brings justification. Moreover, since the Prodigal lost his salvation by sexual immorality (Lk. 15:24,32), why would you think King David didn't lose his salvation through his sexual immorality and murder?
By the way, even if King David did not lose his salvation from these sins, there might be a more grievous sin which could be committed. Therefore, eternal security cannot be proven from his prayerto have his joy restored after King David sinned!
Also, did you notice that King David believed the Holy Spirit could be taken from him (Psa. 51:11), which is the very thing that happened to King Saul (1 Sam.16:14)? Apparently, from this alone, King David felt something far greater than justthe joy of his salvation was clearly jeopardized by his sins!
Was King David a Bible-defined"adulterer" or "murderer" for approximately nine months or longer? Toanswer, we must consider how many times does one have to murder or commit adultery to be considered a"murderer" or "adulterer," according to the Scriptures? Again, according to the Bible , what is the answer? Lev. 20:10 states:
"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife --with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."
Clearly from this Scripture, a one-time act of adultery makes a person an"adulterer" or an "adulteress." But what about the identity of a "murderer"? In the book of Numbers, a murderer's identity is revealed:
"If a man strikes someone with an iron object so that he dies, he is a murderer ; the murderer shall be put to death. Or if anyone has a stone in his hand that could kill, and he strikes someone so thathe dies, he is a murderer ; the murderer shall be put to death. Or if anyone has a wooden object in his hand that could kill,and he hits someone so that he dies, he is a murderer ; the murderer shall be put to death" (Num. 35:16-18).
As with the "adulterer," a one-time act of murder makes the man a "murderer," according to Scripture . There is no Scripture that states it would take two or five or twenty acts of adultery or murder before one is an "adulterer" or"murderer"! The definition of these words also fits the evidence in Lev. 20:10 and Num. 35:16-18 for a single act! Furthermore, regarding murder, 1 John 3:15 states:
"Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him ," (NKJV).
According to Scripture, when King David sinned in that way he became a"murderer" and therefore, he did not have eternal life "abiding" (remaining) inhim any more. You don't have to go any further than that. So, according to Scripture, when King David sinned he, therefore, lost much more than the joy of his salvation!
But there is even more. The Sovereign God, who knows all there is to know about salvation, grace, his own keeping power and faithfulness, spoke from his throne after the infinite and finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross:
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral , those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death (Rev. 21:8).
King David was unsaved when in unrepentant sin (as was Bathsheba), according to Rev. 21:8! If King David didn't repent, he would have missed the Kingdom, according to these clear Scriptures.
Finally, how was King David a man "after God's own heart"? In Jer. 3:15, we read ofthis same phrase:
"Then I will give you shepherds after my own heart , who will lead you with knowledge and understanding."
This same phrase is used here and indicates spiritual leaders guiding peoplewith godly knowledge and understanding . There is no fine print in Scripture that cites protection from the lake of fire for any writer of the Bible, King of Israel, man after God's own heart, or any other kind of person who would become sexually immoral and/or a murderer . Scripture just plainly states such will end up in the lake of fire (Rev. 21:8) . The only hope they have is to repent as the Prodigal did. Hence, don't be deceived by any DANGEROUS false teacher, including John R. Rice, David Servant or anyone else teaching a license to sin. King David sinned and lost his salvation and it didn't take habitual, lifestyle or practice of sin to do that. [King David also got forgiven, 2 Sam. 12:13.]
A common argument cited for eternal security goes like this: "King David lost only the joy of his salvation by his adultery and murder. In Psa. 51:12 he only prayedto have the joy of his salvation restored. Also, he was 'a man after God's own heart' and wrote part of the Bible." So, when King David sinned with adultery and murder, did he really remain saved, as so many want us to believe?
To say King David did not lose his salvation because of his sins of adultery and murder is to rebut Scripture (1 Cor. 6:9,10; Rev. 21:8; etc.) and at the same time, teach a license for immorality! Just because King David prayed to have the joy of his salvation "restored" doesn't mean he didn't previously lose his salvation, which according to the aforementioned verses, clearly occurred. NOTE: The context of Psalm 51 is after 2 Sam. 12:13 (where King David was declared forgiven). So after he was forgiven he wrote Psalm 51 and asked forthe joy of his salvation to be restored! The context changes everything! Furthermore, Psalm 51:1 starts off with David's prayer which is almost identical to the prayer in Luke 18:13, which brings justification. Moreover, since the Prodigal lost his salvation by sexual immorality (Lk. 15:24,32), why would you think King David didn't lose his salvation through his sexual immorality and murder?
By the way, even if King David did not lose his salvation from these sins, there might be a more grievous sin which could be committed. Therefore, eternal security cannot be proven from his prayerto have his joy restored after King David sinned!
Also, did you notice that King David believed the Holy Spirit could be taken from him (Psa. 51:11), which is the very thing that happened to King Saul (1 Sam.16:14)? Apparently, from this alone, King David felt something far greater than justthe joy of his salvation was clearly jeopardized by his sins!
Was King David a Bible-defined"adulterer" or "murderer" for approximately nine months or longer? Toanswer, we must consider how many times does one have to murder or commit adultery to be considered a"murderer" or "adulterer," according to the Scriptures? Again, according to the Bible , what is the answer? Lev. 20:10 states:
"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife --with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."
Clearly from this Scripture, a one-time act of adultery makes a person an"adulterer" or an "adulteress." But what about the identity of a "murderer"? In the book of Numbers, a murderer's identity is revealed:
"If a man strikes someone with an iron object so that he dies, he is a murderer ; the murderer shall be put to death. Or if anyone has a stone in his hand that could kill, and he strikes someone so thathe dies, he is a murderer ; the murderer shall be put to death. Or if anyone has a wooden object in his hand that could kill,and he hits someone so that he dies, he is a murderer ; the murderer shall be put to death" (Num. 35:16-18).
As with the "adulterer," a one-time act of murder makes the man a "murderer," according to Scripture . There is no Scripture that states it would take two or five or twenty acts of adultery or murder before one is an "adulterer" or"murderer"! The definition of these words also fits the evidence in Lev. 20:10 and Num. 35:16-18 for a single act! Furthermore, regarding murder, 1 John 3:15 states:
"Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him ," (NKJV).
According to Scripture, when King David sinned in that way he became a"murderer" and therefore, he did not have eternal life "abiding" (remaining) inhim any more. You don't have to go any further than that. So, according to Scripture, when King David sinned he, therefore, lost much more than the joy of his salvation!
But there is even more. The Sovereign God, who knows all there is to know about salvation, grace, his own keeping power and faithfulness, spoke from his throne after the infinite and finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross:
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral , those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death (Rev. 21:8).
King David was unsaved when in unrepentant sin (as was Bathsheba), according to Rev. 21:8! If King David didn't repent, he would have missed the Kingdom, according to these clear Scriptures.
Finally, how was King David a man "after God's own heart"? In Jer. 3:15, we read ofthis same phrase:
"Then I will give you shepherds after my own heart , who will lead you with knowledge and understanding."
This same phrase is used here and indicates spiritual leaders guiding peoplewith godly knowledge and understanding . There is no fine print in Scripture that cites protection from the lake of fire for any writer of the Bible, King of Israel, man after God's own heart, or any other kind of person who would become sexually immoral and/or a murderer . Scripture just plainly states such will end up in the lake of fire (Rev. 21:8) . The only hope they have is to repent as the Prodigal did. Hence, don't be deceived by any DANGEROUS false teacher, including John R. Rice, David Servant or anyone else teaching a license to sin. King David sinned and lost his salvation and it didn't take habitual, lifestyle or practice of sin to do that. [King David also got forgiven, 2 Sam. 12:13.]
Classik
Member
The Rue Plan of Salvation
The true gospel of Jesus Christ is repentance towards God and faith in Christ Jesus (Acts 20:21). We prove our repentance by our deeds (Acts 26:20). The Lord Jesus taught the road to life is "hard" and only a "few" will find it (Mt. 7:13,14, NKJV). Many get saved, but afterwards fall away (Lk. 8:13; Jn. 6:66; 1 Tim. 1:19; etc.). In other words, after initial salvation we must endure to the "end" to enter the kingdom of God and escape the lake of fire (Mt. 10:22; Heb. 3:14; Rev. 2:10,11). Eternal life comes to the repentant the moment such believe on Jesus for salvation (Jn. 3:16; 6:47; 1 Jn. 5:12,13), but there is another important aspect of eternal life that many are totallyunaware of in our day because of the false teaching of eternal security. According to true grace teaching, eternal life is also a HOPE (Titus 3:7), yet to be REAPED (Gal. 6:8,9) in the AGE TO COME (Mk. 10:30) for only the ones who PERSISTIN DOING GOOD (Rom. 2:7) and DO NOT GROW WEARY AND GIVE UP (Gal. 6:9).
If a saved person sows to please his sinful nature he'll die spiritually (Rom. 8:13; Gal. 6:8,9). The prodigal is a clear example of this (Lk. 15:24,32). The end result of sin is spiritual death, so DO NOT BE DECEIVED (James 1:14-16).
Because of the teaching of once saved always saved , grace has been taught as a license for immorality for so long, and without challenge, that when Scripture isquoted, such as 1 Cor. 6:9,10 or Rev. 21:8, it is disregarded, and the giver of God's Word is falsely accused of teaching legalism, bondage, a works salvation , etc. This reflects how truly dark these days are! source
The true gospel of Jesus Christ is repentance towards God and faith in Christ Jesus (Acts 20:21). We prove our repentance by our deeds (Acts 26:20). The Lord Jesus taught the road to life is "hard" and only a "few" will find it (Mt. 7:13,14, NKJV). Many get saved, but afterwards fall away (Lk. 8:13; Jn. 6:66; 1 Tim. 1:19; etc.). In other words, after initial salvation we must endure to the "end" to enter the kingdom of God and escape the lake of fire (Mt. 10:22; Heb. 3:14; Rev. 2:10,11). Eternal life comes to the repentant the moment such believe on Jesus for salvation (Jn. 3:16; 6:47; 1 Jn. 5:12,13), but there is another important aspect of eternal life that many are totallyunaware of in our day because of the false teaching of eternal security. According to true grace teaching, eternal life is also a HOPE (Titus 3:7), yet to be REAPED (Gal. 6:8,9) in the AGE TO COME (Mk. 10:30) for only the ones who PERSISTIN DOING GOOD (Rom. 2:7) and DO NOT GROW WEARY AND GIVE UP (Gal. 6:9).
If a saved person sows to please his sinful nature he'll die spiritually (Rom. 8:13; Gal. 6:8,9). The prodigal is a clear example of this (Lk. 15:24,32). The end result of sin is spiritual death, so DO NOT BE DECEIVED (James 1:14-16).
Because of the teaching of once saved always saved , grace has been taught as a license for immorality for so long, and without challenge, that when Scripture isquoted, such as 1 Cor. 6:9,10 or Rev. 21:8, it is disregarded, and the giver of God's Word is falsely accused of teaching legalism, bondage, a works salvation , etc. This reflects how truly dark these days are! source
Davies
Member
Hi Classik,
If our salvation depends on us, then we don't have a chance.
1 Peter 1:5
New King James Version (NKJV)
<sup class="versenum">5 </sup>who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
We all know that faith is a gift of God. We are saved by His power and kept by His power, and no one can take us out of His hand.
John 10:29
New King James Version (NKJV)
<sup class="versenum">29 </sup>My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.
- Davies
If our salvation depends on us, then we don't have a chance.
1 Peter 1:5
New King James Version (NKJV)
<sup class="versenum">5 </sup>who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
We all know that faith is a gift of God. We are saved by His power and kept by His power, and no one can take us out of His hand.
John 10:29
New King James Version (NKJV)
<sup class="versenum">29 </sup>My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.
- Davies
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thisnumbersdisconnected
Member
Simple answer: No. Some excellent studies have been suggested. They will show you why he did not.
Davies
Member
Good morning Classik,
So, even though David sinned, Moses not entering the promised land, and Jesus saying, 'Why have you forsaken Me,' what do we see beyond the moment? The unseen: David was forgiven, Moses standing with Elijah when Jesus momentarily showed His glory on the mountain, and Jesus resurrected.
2 Corinthians 4:18
New King James Version (NKJV)
<sup class="versenum">18 </sup>while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.
- Davies
So, even though David sinned, Moses not entering the promised land, and Jesus saying, 'Why have you forsaken Me,' what do we see beyond the moment? The unseen: David was forgiven, Moses standing with Elijah when Jesus momentarily showed His glory on the mountain, and Jesus resurrected.
2 Corinthians 4:18
New King James Version (NKJV)
<sup class="versenum">18 </sup>while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.
- Davies