Growth Discipleship

[Jesse]

The Bible says: "Faith comes by hearing...." Some people seem to want to make that out to only mean that your faith in God will grow as you hear. But this is only part of what that verse means. Our faith in just about ANYTHING will grow if we listen to it long enough. This includes things NOT of God, too...... and, we WILL listen to something, make no mistake about that. If it is not things of God we're listening to, then it leaves just a few other possibilities.

That's a good way of putting it and it must be what I've been experiencing. I'm trying to turn that around, however.

 

[Jesse]

Jesse I also have a class I teach on Salvation on my website that might answer some of your questions if you want to read it. Just click on the website at the end of my post and it will take you straight to it.

Thank you for his glory, I will visit your website!

 

[Jesse]

You ask good questions brother Jesse.

Briefly right now, I will lay down a few things but I have to go to work again so I'll follow up later.

You other brothers and sisters correct me where I'm wrong here, but from what I can tell, there are four levels of walk with the Lord.

1. Follower/Believer. This is the sort of person who attends church on Sunday, does believe in God, but still largely lives for himself or the world and is influenced by the world.

2. Friend. This is people who are more serious about their relationship with the Lord and do work for Him, take doctrine seriously...but have more of a relationship with the bible than God. (?)

3. Son. These are people who have a relationship with Jesus, a passion for knowing Him and obeying His commandments.

4. Bride. These are people who have a passion for the Lord and a spotless relationship with Him and do not have hidden vices. The shine a light brightly, walk in the Spirit constantly and basically have the mind of Christ.

Now this is all spoken loosely, I may have forgotten something, be slightly off track a little...but generally...this is pretty much how I see it. I think "Disciple" would be in there somewhere (loosely) in or about 2 or 3 somewhere. I'm hurrying right now, to go to work, but this thread interests me, so I wanted to put something down and get into it in more detail later.

Bless you all brothers and sisters.

It's up to us how far we go with our relationship, excepting perhaps being "Bride"...that may be up to Jesus to bestow that honor upon us.

This really does make sense, thanks for sharing it. I know a lot of believers if you know what I mean. haha Although I realize it's not about a list, it is a good thing to recall and refer back to.

I do believe that Abraham was called friend of God and it was more about His faith and obedience then anything else, so perhaps we could say a simple believer attends church, but when we put that into action as obedience through faith we are called Friend, too.

As far as son goes, I recall this verse:
Romans 8:19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.(ESV) I'm sure there is much more to Sons here that maybe we could discuss.

Of course, there are books written on the Bride of Christ, right?

 

[Edward]

This really does make sense, thanks for sharing it. I know a lot of believers if you know what I mean. haha Although I realize it's not about a list, it is a good thing to recall and refer back to.

I do believe that Abraham was called friend of God and it was more about His faith and obedience then anything else, so perhaps we could say a simple believer attends church, but when we put that into action as obedience through faith we are called Friend, too.

As far as son goes, I recall this verse:
Romans 8:19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.(ESV) I'm sure there is much more to Sons here that maybe we could discuss.

Of course, there are books written on the Bride of Christ, right?

I'm convinced that there is/will be rank in heaven. A mention is made in scripture about those who will be called the least in heaven. The Bride is described also. Spotless. Without blemish.

We're given the power to become the sons of God.

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:/(KJV)

It doesn't really say that all will become the sons of God, does it? All are given the power to...It also makes reference to Believers. From previous study, I have come to the conclusion that the Lord has fashioned redemption after an ancient Jewish Wedding. From what I understand, there are four parts to a Jewish wedding gown. In the Garden of Eden...the first thing the Lord did for Adam and Eve after they fell (He still loved them!) was to make for them coats of animal skins to cover them. They certainly believed in God, believers now. First part of the wedding gown. He immediately began what is necessary to get them back towards relationship and identity.

Scripture also speaks of white robes to be given out...to those who have washed their robes white in the blood of Jesus? Something like that. I don't think that everyone who goes to heaven will get white robes. Some will.

 

[Edward]

If you think about it, the rank makes sense. Each level brings with it more privileges. Followers (servants) are in the home, but do not have as much intimacy or privileges that friends do who come to visit. Friends do not share the same intimacy and privileges that sons (family) do...and family (sons) do not share as much intimacy or privileges that the wife (Bride) has...

 

[Jesse]

If you think about it, the rank makes sense. Each level brings with it more privileges. Followers (servants) are in the home, but do not have as much intimacy or privileges that friends do who come to visit. Friends do not share the same intimacy and privileges that sons (family) do...and family (sons) do not share as much intimacy or privileges that the wife (Bride) has...

It's something I need to study, but I do see what you are saying.

 

[Edward]

But to more who is given, more will be required. More responsibility comes with more intimacy.

 

[Malachi]

Thanks Malachi for answering. A few questions:
2). When you say death to the old sinful nature, is this what people mean when they say death to the inner man? Is this something that we can actually do - yes, we can say "no" to sin and in this God will supernaturally change us from the inside - out to transform us to the image of Christ, correct? I mean we can't actually change our inner man ourselves, right?

The "inner man" is your "new man" -- your spiritual component -- your spirit indwelt by the Holy Spirit. It is the "old man" (the sinful Adamic nature) which remains in the believer, and we are to "reckon ourselves dead to sin" (Rom 6:11-22). In other words, you can truly say "My sinful nature has no power over me, because the Holy Spirit lives within me", and "It is God who works in me both to will and to do of His pleasure" (Phil 2:13). As a result we are to "mortify" (put to death) the sinful desires coming from within (Col 3:5-10)

I have no idea what you mean by rewards? You mean rewards in heaven? Or what do you mean? The only reward I read about in heaven is the reward of the "crown of life". Thanks.

Rewards are given for endurance and faithfulness. Search a concordance for the Scriptures when you have a moment.

3). Do you mean in our character, in the way we react to our trials?

Yes. Christ patiently endured sufferings and humiliation. Paul did the same. We are asked to follow in His (Christ's) steps.

Maybe it would be good to discuss those scriptures that pertain to "life and godliness"!

As you go through all the NT Gospels and epistles, you will find all the teachings which pertain to life and godliness. But they are also to be found in the OT as illustrations and instructions. Search the Scriptures daily.

 

[Jesse]

The "inner man" is your "new man" -- your spiritual component -- your spirit indwelt by the Holy Spirit. It is the "old man" (the sinful Adamic nature) which remains in the believer, and we are to "reckon ourselves dead to sin" (Rom 6:11-22). In other words, you can truly say "My sinful nature has no power over me, because the Holy Spirit lives within me", and "It is God who works in me both to will and to do of His pleasure" (Phil 2:13). As a result we are to "mortify" (put to death) the sinful desires coming from within (Col 3:5-10)

Thanks for clearing that up.

Rewards are given for endurance and faithfulness. Search a concordance for the Scriptures when you have a moment.

There are not that many verses which speak to rewards, maybe 3 I found, besides the ones about being rewarded the crown of life. I believe there will be Saints who reign with Christ, maybe not all Saints will do so.

As you go through all the NT Gospels and epistles, you will find all the teachings which pertain to life and godliness. But they are also to be found in the OT as illustrations and instructions. Search the Scriptures daily.

The Sermon on the Mount is probably a good one for starters, huh?

 

[Willie T]

But to more who is given, more will be required. More responsibility comes with more intimacy.

You worded that so well. Many people would have interjected the word, "obedience" instead of, "intimacy."

 

[Malachi]

The Sermon on the Mount is probably a good one for starters, huh?

That's a very good choice. It includes chapters 5 - 7 in Matthew's Gospel (compare with Luke also, which is the Sermon on the Plain, in ch 6). The Lord elevated the OT commandments to their true spiritual meaning, but there's a lot of meat in His teachings here, over and above that. For those who heard these sayings it was "astonishing doctrine".

 

[Jesse]

You worded that so well. Many people would have interjected the word, "obedience" instead of, "intimacy."

It doesn't say intimacy or obedience.

All it says is that to whomever more is given, more is required.

 

[Malachi]

It doesn't say intimacy or obedience.

All it says is that to whomever more is given, more is required.

And this saying speaks about more responsibility and greater expectations from those who receive more authority, more opportunities, more light, more spiritual gifts, or greater understanding of the Word of God. The context is knowledge of "his Lord's will" (Lk 12:47,48), which covers all these areas.

 

[Jesse]

And this saying speaks about more responsibility and greater expectations from those who receive more authority, more opportunities, more light, more spiritual gifts, or greater understanding of the Word of God. The context is knowledge of "his Lord's will" (Lk 12:47,48), which covers all these areas.

I was just thinking that maybe more obedience would be required if we had more authority, more spiritual gifts and more understanding.

 

[Willie T]

You're both kind of missing it. This "knowledge" and "obedience" are the direct results of the intimacy of relating to God........ NOT simply "knowing" His writings, and doing what the law said was required. The Pharisees already did all that mechanical stuff.

 

[Jesse]

You're both kind of missing it. This "knowledge" and "obedience" are the direct results of the intimacy of relating to God........ NOT simply "knowing" His writings, and doing what the law said was required. The Pharisees already did all that mechanical stuff.

The reason I brought up the obedience part is because we will be accountable for what we "do" with what he has given to us, the knowledge, the talents, gifts, etc. Yet, I do understand how it all definitely ties in with our relationship with God, which is what it is all about. I don't see how our faithfulness and obedience can be separated as our works will follow because of our relationship with him.

We can't fall to one side and be afraid we're being seen as a Pharisee because God does ask us to do good works for him and we can't be all about work either and skip out on the relationship. It's the balance again with God's grace.

Anyway, that's how I see it.

 

[Edward]

You worded that so well. Many people would have interjected the word, "obedience" instead of, "intimacy."

Thank you brother. I can't help but think of this as a family/marriage thing, Bride of Christ, Sons of God and so forth. And the Wife does have more responsibility than the children, and is more intimate with the husband also.

It doesn't say intimacy or obedience.

All it says is that to whomever more is given, more is required.

True that brother. Those were my words on the end that I interjected. It's how I see it, and is true.

I was just thinking that maybe more obedience would be required if we had more authority, more spiritual gifts and more understanding.

You're right here, brother. Obedience requirements would certainly be more, the higher up one goes with relationship with the Lord. The Bride of Christ is described as spotless and without blemish. That just screams obedience to me. No slip ups for the Bride. Whoops, gotta spot on your robe dear...without spot or blemish. That makes perfect sense.

Trust, obedience...He knows that He can count on you. Some things are not to be spoken of to regular people, or even other brothers and sisters. That's what I think based on the scripture which speaks of not casting ones pearls to the swine. God has lots of secrets, and the more we seek Him and (obey), the more the Holy Spirit will reveal to us.

 

[Edward]

The reason I brought up the obedience part is because we will be accountable for what we "do" with what he has given to us, the knowledge, the talents, gifts, etc. Yet, I do understand how it all definitely ties in with our relationship with God, which is what it is all about. I don't see how our faithfulness and obedience can be separated as our works will follow because of our relationship with him.

We can't fall to one side and be afraid we're being seen as a Pharisee because God does ask us to do good works for him and we can't be all about work either and skip out on the relationship. It's the balance again with God's grace.

Anyway, that's how I see it.

That used to scare me. The scripture about we must be at least as righteous as the Pharisees or we will not enter into Heaven...not so much anymore.You're right also, all of this ties into our relationship with God. This is serious and God will not be mocked.

 

[Willie T]

That used to scare me. The scripture about we must be at least as righteous as the Pharisees or we will not enter into Heaven...not so much anymore.You're right also, all of this ties into our relationship with God. This is serious and God will not be mocked.

I absolutely LOVE that scripture! Why? Because the Pharisees were almost perfectly righteous. And that leaves me with but one conclusion.... that it is impossible for my own righteousness to surpass that of the Pharisees.

"Bummer" you might say. But I say, "Not at all."

All through the Bible it is told that I now make that grade by the righteousness of someone else... Jesus. And, His righteousness FAR exceeds that of ANYONE, including the Pharisees.

 

[Jesse]

That used to scare me. The scripture about we must be at least as righteous as the Pharisees or we will not enter into Heaven...not so much anymore.You're right also, all of this ties into our relationship with God. This is serious and God will not be mocked.

It shouldn't scare you because, after all, it is not our righteousness but His.

I get your point though, I still have a difficult time with "I should do that" and "I shouldn't do that", although God did set up boundaries for us.