Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

DO NOT BE SURPRISED (A Word Of Warning For The Time To Come)

2024 Website Hosting Fees

Total amount
$905.00
Goal
$1,038.00
Am I correct in saying you believe it’s impossi for one of His sheep to become lost?


JLB
I am very very close to that but defiantly state can't be deceived. We know upfront about the beast and deception also having the witness of the Spirit. Do you think you could ever deny Jesus without it being a lie?
It would be insanity to come and know the lord and then deny Him as false knowing the outcome.
I believe those who once claimed being a Christian only to walk away never knew Him.

Those that continue to sin but call Jesus lord
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Those that left Jesus never were His.
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
 
To me those who continue to do evil after the knowledge of the truth or start denouncing Jesus are those who NEVER knew Him despite what they may claim.

I certainly agree that there will be those who never knew Him.


However if a person is in Christ, then obviously this is not the case.

If a person who is in Christ, then later departs from Christ, then they no longer have Christ.

The key is to remain or abide in Him.

6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


The NIV -

If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. John 15:6


It would be absurd to think that a person who is “in Christ”, was one who never believed, or who Jesus never knew.


Here is how the Bible teaches us that we abide in Christ.


  • he who keeps His commandments abides in Him


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


again


  • Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9




JLB
 
I am very very close to that but defiantly state can't be deceived.


So one of His sheep can be deceived and wander from the truth and become lost, but this same sheep can not be deceived into taking the mark of the beast?


Sorry brother, this makes no sense.


If a Christian is in a lost state, then they can surly be deceived into taking the mark.


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20


  • he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death




JLB
 
Those that left Jesus never were His.
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

Have you ever left a Pastor and a church ?



JLB
 
So one of His sheep can be deceived and wander from the truth and become lost, but this same sheep can not be deceived into taking the mark of the beast?


Sorry brother, this makes no sense.


If a Christian is in a lost state, then they can surly be deceived into taking the mark.


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20


  • he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death




JLB
You speak of repentance. I speak of one who is born again. As already in the kingdom of God via the Spirit of Christ in them. If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ in them they don't belong to Jesus even if they state so and go to church.
 
You speak of repentance. I speak of one who is born again. As already in the kingdom of God via the Spirit of Christ in them. If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ in them they don't belong to Jesus even if they state so and go to church.

Brother, please examine the language and very specific words that Jesus used in the parable of the lost sheep, so you and I can come to a common unified understanding.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


Point # 1 -

What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost.

The shepherd has 100 sheep.
They are all his sheep.
One of his sheep becomes lost.


Point # 2 -

I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents


The sheep who has become lost is likened to a “sinner” in need of repentance, or remain lost.


Point # 3 -

there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

The 100 sheep who follow along with the shepherd are referred to as “just”, which refers to a person who is justified.

The 99 remain just, while the one sheep who was with the shepherd and was at one time “just” but has become lost and is now a sinner in need of repentance.

Lost = sinner in need of repentance; seperated from God - unjust.

Found = reconciled to God; just



JLB
 
You speak of repentance. I speak of one who is born again. As already in the kingdom of God via the Spirit of Christ in them. If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ in them they don't belong to Jesus even if they state so and go to church.


James uses the same language in describing a Christian brother who wanders from the truth.

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20


  • Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth,


  • he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death



JLB
 
James uses the same language in describing a Christian brother who wanders from the truth.

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20


  • Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth,


  • he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death



JLB
View attachment 6184
James uses the same language in describing a Christian brother who wanders from the truth.

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20


  • Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth,


  • he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death



JLB
I think we have a complete NT in these days. And deception into following and worshipping the beast is the topic.
Below is example of wandered from the truth and corrected by Paul. They wandered from grace not Jesus.
And backsliding is also not the same as denying Jesus as in be deceived into anther religion. Those that follow false teachers are blind not born again believers.
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!
10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.
 
View attachment 6184

I think we have a complete NT in these days. And deception into following and worshipping the beast is the topic.
Below is example of wandered from the truth and corrected by Paul. They wandered from grace not Jesus.
And backsliding is also not the same as denying Jesus as in be deceived into anther religion. Those that follow false teachers are blind not born again believers.
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!
10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.


Brother, please define the word “lost” in the context of Luke 15:4-7 and Luke 15:32.

Brother, please examine the language and very specific words that Jesus used in the parable of the lost sheep, so you and I can come to a common unified understanding.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


Point # 1 -

What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost.

The shepherd has 100 sheep.
They are all his sheep.
One of his sheep becomes lost.


Point # 2 -

I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents


The sheep who has become lost is likened to a “sinner” in need of repentance, or remain lost.


Point # 3 -

there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

The 100 sheep who follow along with the shepherd are referred to as “just”, which refers to a person who is justified.

The 99 remain just, while the one sheep who was with the shepherd and was at one time “just” but has become lost and is now a sinner in need of repentance.

Lost = sinner in need of repentance; seperated from God - unjust.

Found = reconciled to God; just



JLB
 
Brother, please define the word “lost” in the context of Luke 15:4-7 and Luke 15:32.

Brother, please examine the language and very specific words that Jesus used in the parable of the lost sheep, so you and I can come to a common unified understanding.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


Point # 1 -

What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost.

The shepherd has 100 sheep.
They are all his sheep.
One of his sheep becomes lost.


Point # 2 -

I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents


The sheep who has become lost is likened to a “sinner” in need of repentance, or remain lost.


Point # 3 -

there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

The 100 sheep who follow along with the shepherd are referred to as “just”, which refers to a person who is justified.

The 99 remain just, while the one sheep who was with the shepherd and was at one time “just” but has become lost and is now a sinner in need of repentance.

Lost = sinner in need of repentance; seperated from God - unjust.

Found = reconciled to God; just



JLB
Again you are speaking of those who were dead in their sins and came to Christ. You read acts 2 and the Fathers promise. Those that have the Spirit of Christ in them are Christians. They can't be deceived or snatched away by false teachers. Those that don't have the Spirit of Christ in them are NOT Christians. I define the lost as those who dont belong to Jesus or don't have the Spirit of Christ in them.The lost can be deceived. So there won't be millions of "Christians" being deceived it will be those who are lost.

Not all who call them themselves "Christians" have/will enter into the kingdom of God.
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

If it is possible to lose the Spirit of Christ from within its impossible to come back to being born again.
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace

God can not disown Himself
The saying is trustworthy, for:

If we have died with him, we will also live with him;
12if we endure, we will also reign with him;
if we deny him, he also will deny us;
13if we are faithless, he remains faithful—
for he cannot deny himself.

It appears denial is the way to lose ones salvation. Since a Christian (on who has the Spirit of Christ in them) can't be deceived denial would be a willful lie. Highly unlikely since it would mean eternal death.

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
 
Again you are speaking of those who were dead in their sins and came to Christ. You read acts 2 and the Fathers promise. Those that have the Spirit of Christ in them are Christians. They can't be deceived or snatched away by false teachers. Those that don't have the Spirit of Christ in them are NOT Christians. I define the lost as those who dont belong to Jesus or don't have the Spirit of Christ in them.The lost can be deceived. So there won't be millions of "Christians" being deceived it will be those who are lost.


No brother, I’m not speaking of acts 2.

I’m referring to Luke 15:4-7 where Jesus taught us about His sheep who wander from Him and become lost.


Please define what lost means from that scripture and the please examine what James also teaches and compare to what he teaches to Luke 15:4-7


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7




Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20



JLB
 
No brother, I’m not speaking of acts 2.

I’m referring to Luke 15:4-7 where Jesus taught us about His sheep who wander from Him and become lost.


Please define what lost means from that scripture and the please examine what James also teaches and compare to what he teaches to Luke 15:4-7


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7




Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20




JLB
Again anyone you define as lost wouldn't have the Spirit of Christ in them and can be deceived by false teachers. Anyone who is lost and according to revelation its those people who took joy in the kindling of Gods two witnesses in rev 11. Those that refused to believe and repent of their evil ways. Those are the people who can and will be deceived. Born again believers can not be snatched from Jesus's hands. They will not worship the beast nor willfully take his mark. So there is no writing that states millions of "Christians" will be deceived into following the beast- the elect can not be deceived. So if they cave in it will be out of fear, not deception, to save thier life in the body they will lose their souls. If they remain faithful and are killed because of their faithfulness to Jesus they will gain eternal life. I think the Spirit of Christ in them will help them overcome their fear as its the Father will for Jesus not to lose those he has given Jesus. Its His will that Jesus raise them up on the last day. Jesus will not abandon His own in that deep trial that comes on the whole world. As its written never will I leave you nor forsake you.

The warning was shouted.
A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” 12This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.
 
Again anyone you define as lost wouldn't have the Spirit of Christ in them and can be deceived by false teachers.

So a born again Christian who becomes lost no longer has the Spirit of God in them?

Born again believers can not be snatched from Jesus's hands.


Please share the scripture that says this.
I think the Spirit of Christ in them will help them overcome their fear


Amen.
Its His will that Jesus raise them up on the last day.

Agreed that is His will.

However, will all be raised up on the last Day?



The warning was shouted.
A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” 12This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.

Yes the warning.

If anyone....


Anyone refers to anyone, which certainly includes Christian’s who may or may not be living in a state of righteousness, as the parable of the lost sheep plainly teaches.



JLB
 
So a born again Christian who becomes lost no longer has the Spirit of God in them?




Please share the scripture that says this.



Amen.


Agreed that is His will.

However, will all be raised up on the last Day?





Yes the warning.

If anyone....


Anyone refers to anyone, which certainly includes Christian’s who may or may not be living in a state of righteousness, as the parable of the lost sheep plainly teaches.



JLB
Ref:The lost don’t have the spirit of Christ in them.
If lost then how can they still be one with Christ? As was written if we are faithless Jesus will remain faithful as God can’t disown Himself. Assuming a born again believer can be lost. Jesus stated no one can snatch them out of His hand so how then can a false teacher deceive them into worshipping the beast?
I assume Jesus would give grace and not allow His own to be overcome with fear to the point of becoming lost. That is taking the mark of the beast.
 
I assume Jesus would give grace and not allow His own to be overcome with fear to the point of becoming lost. That is taking the mark of the beast.

That’s why we have scripture so we don’t have to assume.


If a Christian can become lost in everyday life, then they can certainly become lost and deceived into taking the mark of the beast.


Now is the time to draw near to God and obey the things Jesus and His Apostles told us to do, that we would abide in Him, and abide in love.



If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. John 15:10




Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


Hearing His voice and following Him so we don’t become lost.




JLB
 
That’s why we have scripture so we don’t have to assume.


If a Christian can become lost in everyday life, then they can certainly become lost and deceived into taking the mark of the beast.


Now is the time to draw near to God and obey the things Jesus and His Apostles told us to do, that we would abide in Him, and abide in love.



If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. John 15:10




Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


Hearing His voice and following Him so we don’t become lost.




JLB
I have stated from the beginning those that have the Spirit of Christ in them can't be in a lost state or deceived. As you state lost. Those that are lost don't belong to Jesus and can be mislead or deceived by false teachers. As the subject was about the powerful delusion allowed into the world to deceive the unbelievers and those who refuse to repent of their evil ways during the reign of the beast.

My only assumption was that Jesus would be with His own during those days and give grace so that He would not lose any that the Father has given Him.
Not allow more than one can bare. Jesus came to save.

Jesus and His own are ONE. The Father in Him and Jesus in us. Those in Christ are not to be defined as "lost"
 
I have stated from the beginning those that have the Spirit of Christ in them can't be in a lost state or deceived.

I have proven from the scriptures that is not true.

You just seem to be ignoring the scriptures I have given while repeating your opinion with no scripture.

Can we please discuss what the scripture says.



JLB
 
I have proven from the scriptures that is not true.

You just seem to be ignoring the scriptures I have given while repeating your opinion with no scripture.

Can we please discuss what the scripture says.



JLB
You have done no such thing.
How can one have the Spirit of Christ in them and be in a "lost" state? Are they not one with Jesus?
How can a false teacher deceive one away from Jesus when He expressly stated no one could? His sheep hear His voice.
And my confidence is not assumption but faith in my Lord not me.'

To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

The judgement is against those who do not believe and refuse to repent of their evil ways and that after all Gods warnings are refused. As in choose life.

These people are not Christians
They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
 
To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

The context of Jude 24:

  • you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,

  • keep yourselves in the love of God,



20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22 And on some have compassion, [j]making a distinction; 23 but others save [k]with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.
24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling,And to present you faultless
Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, Jude 20-24


The key to being kept from stumbling is keeping yourselves in the love of God.

Building yourself up on your most holy faith by praying in the Holy Spirit.


JLB
 
Back
Top