Does God hear the prayer of the Lost person other than the prayer for salvation

[Jim Parker]

The very scripture you post revokes your claim that Emmanuel was not God.

I did not make any claim that Immanuel is not God.
I specifically said; "It was God the Son who was crucified."
I said he is not THE FATHER.
Please do not distort what I post.

 

[Innerfire89]

In my reading this morning, I came across these verses which I believe address that understanding.

Speaking of the scribes and Pharisees, whom He called hypocrites, Jesus said concerning doing works for others to see: “But all their works they do to be seen by men." (Mat 23:5)
So Jesus had no respect for works done to be seen by men.

Paul said: "And whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord and not to men," (Col 3:23)
And so Paul said to do your works as unto God, not as unto men.

Both those statements directly refute the idea that we do good works in order to be justified before other men.

iakov the fool

You got all wrong here.
Those works aren't done for men, but are seen by them, particularly are brethren in Christ. The works done for God prove ourselves to our brothers. A tree is known by it's fruit.

 

[Jim Parker]

Was Jesus God?
The answer of the Bible is an unqualified “Yes!”

And He still is!

 

[Jim Parker]

You got all wrong here.
Those works aren't done for men, but are seen by them, particularly are brethren in Christ. The works done for God prove ourselves to our brothers. A tree is known by it's fruit.

Read the whole 2nd chapter of James.
Your faith without works is dead and dead things do not produce life, temporal or eternal.

 

[UberMink]

I did not make any claim that Immanuel is not God.
I specifically said; "It was God the Son who was crucified."
I said he is not THE FATHER.
Please do not distort what I post.

I did not distort what you wrote. You however distort the scriptures. Emmanuel is God with us. There is none other than one Lord.

Mark 12:28Now one of the scribes had come up and heard their debate. Noticing how well Jesus had answered them, he asked Him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” 29 Jesus replied, “This is the most important: ‘HearO Israel, the Lord our God is One Lord, 30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’
John 10:30 I and the Father are one.”

Deuteronomy 6:4 Listen, Israel: The LORD is our God. The LORD is the only God.

 

[UberMink]

You got all wrong here.
Those works aren't done for men, but are seen by them, particularly are brethren in Christ. The works done for God prove ourselves to our brothers. A tree is known by it's fruit.

You may consider that the Romans Catholic tradition denied Faith alone saves and avows works necessary for saving grace. Also, there is the Arminian tradition, another mortal ordained practice , that affirms works are necessary to remain in saving grace. None of these as the scriptures I posted as example are within alliance with the word of God.
Therein the same council I mentioned, known as Concilium Tridentinum, decreed so as to make Protestantism a heresy, that faith in Christ alone was a curse. These two factors but not the only one's pertinent to the Concilium Tridentinum, may be considered when engaging with that which affirms their findings and thus renounce Protestant faith.

 

[Jim Parker]

I did not distort what you wrote. You however distort the scriptures. Emmanuel is God with us. There is none other than one Lord.

Mark 12:28Now one of the scribes had come up and heard their debate. Noticing how well Jesus had answered them, he asked Him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” 29 Jesus replied, “This is the most important: ‘HearO Israel, the Lord our God is One Lord, 30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’
John 10:30 I and the Father are one.”

Deuteronomy 6:4 Listen, Israel: The LORD is our God. The LORD is the only God.

SO do you reject the teaching of the trinity?

 

[Jim Parker]

the Romans Catholic tradition denied Faith alone saves

As does James, the brother of the Lord, in his letter which is part of the NT.

 

[UberMink]

Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?
by Matt Slick
12/05/08
Roman Catholics often mention that the Bible never says we are saved by faith alone and that the phrase "faith alone" occurs only once in James where it says that we are not saved by faith alone. If this is so, then why do the Protestants say we are justified by faith alone and not by works? Because the Bible teaches that we are justified by faith alone-and not by works.
The following is a list of verses about being saved by faith. Please take note that faith and works are contrasted. In other words, we are saved by faith "not by works" and "apart from works," etc. The point is that there are only two options. We are saved by faith alone, or we are not. Since we have faith and works (both conceptually and in practice), then we are either saved by faith alone or by faith and works. There is no other option.
If we see that the scriptures exclude works in any form as a means of our salvation, then logically, we are saved by faith alone. Let's take a look at what the Bible says about faith and works. Then, afterward, we will tackle James' statement about "faith alone."

1. Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."
2. Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"
3. Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;"
4. Rom. 9:30, "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith;"
5. Rom. 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."
6. Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
7. Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
8. Gal. 2:21, I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.
9. Gal. 3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
10. Gal. 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."
11. Eph. 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. 9Not by works, lest any man should boast."
12. Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."

Again, works/Law is contrasted with faith repeatedly; and we are told that we are not justified by works in any way. Therefore, we are made right with God by faith--not by faith and our works, hence, faith alone.
James 2:24, not by faith alone
The scriptures clearly teach that we are saved (justified) by faith in Christ and what He has done on the cross. This faith alone saves us. However, we cannot stop here without addressing what James says in James 2:24, "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone."

There is no contradiction. All you need to do is look at the context. James chapter 2 has 26 verses: Verses 1-7 instruct us not to show favoritism. Verses 8-13 are comments on the Law. Verses 14-26 are about the relationship between faith and works.

James begins this section by using the example of someone who says he has faith but has no works, "What use is it, my brethren, if a man says he has faith, but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" (James 2:14). In other words, James is addressing the issue of a dead faith--a faith that is nothing more than a verbal pronouncement, a public confession of the mind and is not heartfelt. It is empty of life and action. He begins with the negative and demonstrates what an empty faith is (verses 15-17, words without actions). Then he shows that type of faith isn't any different from the faith of demons (verse 19). Finally, he gives examples of living faith that has words followed by actions. Works follow true faith and demonstrate that faith to our fellow man but not to God. James writes of Abraham and Rahab as examples of people who demonstrated their faith by their deeds.

In brief, James is examining two kinds of faith: one that leads to godly works and one that does not. One is true, and the other is false. One is dead, the other alive; hence, "Faith without works is dead," (James 2:20). But, he is not contradicting the verses above that say salvation/justification is by faith alone.

Also, notice that James actually quotes the same verse that Paul quotes in Rom. 4:3 amongst a host of verses dealing with justification by faith. James 2:23 says, "and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, and Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.'" If James was trying to teach a contradictory doctrine of faith and works than the other New Testament writers, then he would not have used Abraham as an example. Therefore, we can see that justification is by faith alone and that James was talking about false faith--not real faith--when he said we are not justified by faith alone.

 

[Jim Parker]

Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?
by Matt Slick
12/05/08
Roman Catholics often mention that the Bible never says we are saved by faith alone and that the phrase "faith alone" occurs only once in James where it says that we are not saved by faith alone. If this is so, then why do the Protestants say we are justified by faith alone and not by works? Because the Bible teaches that we are justified by faith alone-and not by works.
The following is a list of verses about being saved by faith. Please take note that faith and works are contrasted. In other words, we are saved by faith "not by works" and "apart from works," etc. The point is that there are only two options. We are saved by faith alone, or we are not. Since we have faith and works (both conceptually and in practice), then we are either saved by faith alone or by faith and works. There is no other option.
If we see that the scriptures exclude works in any form as a means of our salvation, then logically, we are saved by faith alone. Let's take a look at what the Bible says about faith and works. Then, afterward, we will tackle James' statement about "faith alone."

1. Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."
2. Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"
3. Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;"
4. Rom. 9:30, "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith;"
5. Rom. 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."
6. Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
7. Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
8. Gal. 2:21, I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.
9. Gal. 3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
10. Gal. 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."
11. Eph. 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. 9Not by works, lest any man should boast."
12. Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."

Again, works/Law is contrasted with faith repeatedly; and we are told that we are not justified by works in any way. Therefore, we are made right with God by faith--not by faith and our works, hence, faith alone.
James 2:24, not by faith alone
The scriptures clearly teach that we are saved (justified) by faith in Christ and what He has done on the cross. This faith alone saves us. However, we cannot stop here without addressing what James says in James 2:24, "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone."

There is no contradiction. All you need to do is look at the context. James chapter 2 has 26 verses: Verses 1-7 instruct us not to show favoritism. Verses 8-13 are comments on the Law. Verses 14-26 are about the relationship between faith and works.

James begins this section by using the example of someone who says he has faith but has no works, "What use is it, my brethren, if a man says he has faith, but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" (James 2:14). In other words, James is addressing the issue of a dead faith--a faith that is nothing more than a verbal pronouncement, a public confession of the mind and is not heartfelt. It is empty of life and action. He begins with the negative and demonstrates what an empty faith is (verses 15-17, words without actions). Then he shows that type of faith isn't any different from the faith of demons (verse 19). Finally, he gives examples of living faith that has words followed by actions. Works follow true faith and demonstrate that faith to our fellow man but not to God. James writes of Abraham and Rahab as examples of people who demonstrated their faith by their deeds.

In brief, James is examining two kinds of faith: one that leads to godly works and one that does not. One is true, and the other is false. One is dead, the other alive; hence, "Faith without works is dead," (James 2:20). But, he is not contradicting the verses above that say salvation/justification is by faith alone.

Also, notice that James actually quotes the same verse that Paul quotes in Rom. 4:3 amongst a host of verses dealing with justification by faith. James 2:23 says, "and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, and Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.'" If James was trying to teach a contradictory doctrine of faith and works than the other New Testament writers, then he would not have used Abraham as an example. Therefore, we can see that justification is by faith alone and that James was talking about false faith--not real faith--when he said we are not justified by faith alone.

Start a new thread.

 

[UberMink]

Start a new thread.

I do not feel that necessary. The answer to the question put forth by Inner has been fulfilled by the truth of God and his word posted here.
To go further due to what has transpired under opponent rebuttal to this point would degrade a teaching moment through God's inspiration into a negative. And that is not righteous at all. The truth is truth. There is no debate when God made it possible that humanity would be saved by his grace through the arrival of himself as a son of a man, while God in the flesh, Emmanuel.
And on that third day he arose from the tomb and walked among them for 40 days proving the truth of his teachings to all who saw him. That we may for as long as earth is alive with humanity dwelling upon her, know there is more than "I", more than this, and better to arrive at beyond the flesh and bone.
To God be the glory, praise the Lord for his grace . Amen.

 

[ezra]

umm please dont hijack my thread as it has to do with Does God hear the lost man payer other than prayer to be saved

 

[Jim Parker]

God made it possible that humanity would be saved by his grace through the arrival of himself as a son of a man, while God in the flesh, Emmanuel.

That sounds like modalism.
Do you affirm the teaching of the Trinity?
It's a "yes" or "no" question.
Please respond.

 

[Free]

The truth is truth. There is no debate when God made it possible that humanity would be saved by his grace through the arrival of himself as a son of a man, while God in the flesh, Emmanuel.

The Father did not become the Son. That is not at all what the Bible teaches. You should start a new thread for this so it can be discussed properly.

 

[Papa Zoom]

We need to stay on topic here.

 

[UberMink]

umm please dont hijack my thread as it has to do with Does God hear the lost man payer other than prayer to be saved

I have no intention of hijacking this thread. Prayerfully Jim will head your request.
Thanks.

 

[maplegoat]

That simply reiterates the passages that say God doesn't hear sinners prayers. A sinner or unbeliever wouldn't do God's will because they are not saved so as to do so, in the case of the sinner. Or they don't believe in God.

We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him. (John 9:31)
1 Peter 3:12 "For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayer. But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.”


God calls whom he will to him. Those who seek him that he has predestined to follow the voice of his son he hears because he knows them by name before the advent of the world and its creation.
John 15:16
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.


Sometimes these type discussions invite the charge that the scriptures referred to reflect Calvinism. Jesus words preceded John Calvin though as did God's word so the distraction of that charge is invalid.

 

[Jim Parker]

I do not feel that necessary. The answer to the question put forth by Inner has been fulfilled by the truth of God and his word posted here.
To go further due to what has transpired under opponent rebuttal to this point would degrade a teaching moment through God's inspiration into a negative. And that is not righteous at all. The truth is truth. There is no debate when God made it possible that humanity would be saved by his grace through the arrival of himself as a son of a man, while God in the flesh, Emmanuel.
And on that third day he arose from the tomb and walked among them for 40 days proving the truth of his teachings to all who saw him. That we may for as long as earth is alive with humanity dwelling upon her, know there is more than "I", more than this, and better to arrive at beyond the flesh and bone.
To God be the glory, praise the Lord for his grace . Amen.

Again:
Do you affirm the teaching of the Trinity?
It's a "yes" or "no" question.
Please respond.

 

[WinterPuma]

The Father did not become the Son. That is not at all what the Bible teaches. You should start a new thread for this so it can be discussed properly.

Maybe reading how Mary conceived will educate you .
Immanuel was named that so as to inform anyone who was introduced to him as , God with us. Which is what the angel informed Mary of.
God put God inside Mary who was a virgin.
Anything to the contrary is not scripture.
I and the father are one.
When you have seen me you have seen the father.

Realizing there is the intention now to bait people to go against the published faith statement of this site that says it affirms there are three separate persons, that's all I'm going to say.

 

[Free]

Maybe reading how Mary conceived will educate you .
Immanuel was named that so as to inform anyone who was introduced to him as , God with us. Which is what the angel informed Mary of.
God put God inside Mary who was a virgin.
Anything to the contrary is not scripture.
I and the father are one.
When you have seen me you have seen the father.

Realizing there is the intention now to bait people to go against the published faith statement of this site that says it affirms there are three separate persons, that's all I'm going to say.

You’re implying something false about me. That’s a personal attack. And this is off-topic and against clearly stated moderator directives.