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Don't secularise Christmas, says joint forum

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Don't Secularize Christmas, Says Christian-Muslim Dialogue Group
Kevin McCandless
London (http://www.CNSNews.com) - As religious groups here decry what they see as the increasing secularization of Britain, prominent Muslims and Christians are collaborating in a campaign to retain the holiday's religious association.

Charging that only atheists benefit from keeping Christian references out of Christmas, the Christian Muslim Forum issued a statement condemning efforts to secularize the holiday.

Launched earlier this year by Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams at a function addressed by Prime Minister Tony Blair, the forum is a non-profit group that says its aim is to foster dialogue between the two religions.

In its statement, the forum decried moves by town councils across the United Kingdom to rename Christmas as "Winterval."

Although the measure is designed to avoid offending adherents of other faiths, the forum said the councils doing so were providing racist groups with ammunition to attack British Muslims.

"Those who use the fact of religious pluralism as an excuse to de-Christianize British society unthinkingly become recruiting agents for the extreme right," it said. "They provoke antagonism towards Muslims and others by foisting on them an anti-Christian agenda which they do not hold."

Forum spokesman Julian Bond said that by sidelining Christmas, the government was also marginalizing the role that faith and religion played in society as a whole.

"It's about expressing wariness or reluctance to have faith in public life," he said.

Bond said devout Muslims and Christians shared many of the same values, including respect for the family, clean living and the need for education.

With Islam becoming the second-largest faith in Britain, many Muslim students were being educated in schools run by the Church of England, which gave them an intimate knowledge of Christian traditions, he said.

The forum, which is co-chaired by an Anglican bishop David Gillett and Islamic scholar Ataullah Siddiqui, is also welcoming the public recognition of Eid al Fitr, the holiday marking the end of the Islamic fast month of Ramadan.

Islam recognizes Jesus Christ as a historical figure and regards him as a prophet - one among many. It rejects the Christian belief that Jesus is God incarnate, who was crucified and rose from the dead.

Secularization trend

The annual controversy over Christmas and political correctness reared its head even earlier than usual this year.

This month, the Church of England attacked Britain's Post Office for not including any Christian imagery on its annual holiday stamps. The staff at Inland Revenue, the national tax agency, protested at not being allowed to hold Christmas parties.

Bill Purdue, co-author of "The Making of the Modern Christmas," told Cybercast News Service that although efforts to secularize the holiday began in the United States several years ago, they became more intense when they reached Britain, a country that is in general a lot less religious than America.

"It came across the Atlantic, and it became more extreme," the author said.

Nonetheless, wide-scale efforts to ban Christmas in England were made as long ago as the 17th century.

In 1647, during the latter days of the English Civil War, the Puritan-dominated government outlawed Christmas on the grounds there was no reference in the Bible to celebrating the day.

Purdue said the government had trouble keeping ordinary citizens from observing the holiday, however, both as a religious festival and as a time of feasting and dancing.

Christmas was officially restored in 1660, because Cromwell never quite succeeded in the bid to kill it off.

"They sent troops around London, making sure the shops were open, making sure that it was treated as a normal day, but they never suppressed the appetite for Christmas," Purdue said.


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You may find threads @ Christmas & Easter here

http://www.christianforums.net/viewforum.php?f=14

Or here?

http://www.christianforums.net/viewforum.php?f=32

Must go

Ian
 
I think people are legally secularizing it so it can be a legal religious holiday. If Christmas were a real religious holiday, then government employees would either get off "Winter break" or get 2 days extra vacation.

But some people are in favor of secularizing the holiday so it can be enjoyed by more people. Christmas seems to be more about family coming together; presents for children; Santa Claus and capitalism gains. I think that is what our culture sees Christmas as.
 
Quath said:
Christmas seems to be more about family coming together; presents for children; Santa Claus and capitalism gains. I think that is what our culture sees Christmas as.

So once Christmas becomes secularized then we will celebrate a holiday for which we don't have a reason to do so other than for the sake of celebrating when there is no religious basis what-so-ever top do so. One could say it's "ok" to celebrate with religious intent so long as it doesn't infringe upon those who hold to no such belief.

Therefore to those with no religious reason will celebrate Santa Claus and presents for children under the banner of "quality time" with the family. All this fueled by commercialism, capital gain.
I think a religious holiday makes more sense whether you're "religious" or not. Otherwise it's just a day to party for the kids. The adults get their turn the following week.
LET'S PARTY!!!!!!!
:smt030
 
I think people are trying to say that we should treat it as a generic holiday as a culture and let each family/religious group define it for themselves. If anything, it is more of a pagan holiday than a Christian one. However, Christians have adopted it and modified it to be theirs as well. Other groups may do that as well if it is secularized.

The same could be true of Easter and Halloween. Each holiday is really what you make it be for you.
 
Quath said:
I think people are legally secularizing it so it can be a legal religious holiday.

What? Christmas IS already a legal religious holiday.

Quath said:
If Christmas were a real religious holiday, then government employees would either get off "Winter break" or get 2 days extra vacation.

They do, YOUR Congress refers to "winter break" as "Christmas", since session one.

Quath said:
But some people are in favor of secularizing the holiday so it can be enjoyed by more people. Christmas seems to be more about family coming together; presents for children; Santa Claus and capitalism gains. I think that is what our culture sees Christmas as.

No, that's not the secularists' motives, not even close:


This week, our senior attorneys at the American Center for Law and Justice are working on this latest ACLU case. The ACLU is absolutely determined to censor Christmas. They have sued the Wilson County School System outside of Nashville, TN. We represent several school officials and teachers who have been charged with engaging in what the ACLU calls “illegal acts.†The ACLU claims that the plaintiffs have been harmed, injured and “suffered irreparable damage†through the Christmas program because of its “Christian themes and songs.†The ACLU will then ask for these actions be declared “unconstitutional and illegal.â€Â

Not exactly in the holiday spirit, now is it?

Quath said:
The same could be true of Easter and Halloween. Each holiday is really what you make it be for you.

Customized holidays??????

"Christmas" = Christ + Mass

"Easter" = resurrection of Jesus Christ

Now Halloween? Keep it.
 
Ok, so let's see...
Christmas... that's the one that started it all. So, let's designate that one as generic. Here's to... umm, heck, I don't know. Got something to toast to?
Here's to whirled peas and goodwill to all persons. :smt030

Ah, Easter. well, that one's not exactly secular, all inclusive or sterilized either so that one too can go generic. Here's to, what did we toast to last time? Ok, so don't toast to that ... think of something else. Heck with it. Let's just drink ourselves into Bolivia. :smt030

Fourth of July. Did you know America really didn't get independence on July 4th? That was only the colonies' declaration, not actual independence. It's not independence day. It's declaration day. Not until Sept. 3, 1783 was the Treaty of Paris signed, bringing the Revolutionary War to its final conclusion. So folks, ya'll been celebrating on the wrong day. :smt018 So, we'll have to make that one generic too. Besides, we don't want to offend our British friends with all the hoopla. But that's ok, it's still acceptable to declare "I led the pigeons to the flag". So here's to one Asian, underdog, in the vestibule, with little tea and just rice for all.:smt030

Halloween? Generic too you say?
Well, why not. Here's to a "wee puppet for witch's hands." :smt030
 
What I find perplexing is how many governments and departments stores are willing to issue Happy Chanuka's or take note of Ramadan during that period...yet it is felt that saying Merry Christmas is somehow offensive.

An inclusive, diverse and tolerant society is not one where all differences are made to be invisible and glossed over with PC language. An inclusive, diverse and tolerant society is one that embraces our differences and looks for common values amongst them.

People offended by the usage of the word Christmas need to do some deep thinking. The fact is that the majority of people in North America are Christians...there's no harm in openly celebrating Christmas. We should encourage and respectfully acknowledge other religious celebrations, embrace them with open arms as a society that celebrates its diversity, not as a diverse society that ignores all public manifestations of our differences.
 
Hi all!

I only just corrected the thread title: I musta been gonna say, "Don't de-Christianise Christmas"

I'm glad Asima pointed out the irony of Govt Depts & stores etc being happy to say, 'Happy Eid', 'Happy Diwali' etc, yet balk @ 'Happy Christmas'

My quick Mon search didn't find a Christmas thread

I'll just say that Bible evidence shows that Jesus wasn't born in winter - shepherds aren't in the fields with their flocks at night then - but it's right to celebrate the birth of the One at the centre of all history, who has transformed more lives, communities etc than anyone else

& more folk go to church at Christmas than at any other time & we need to take the increased opportunities in general conversation, etc, over the next 27 days

What just occurred to me, while typing, is the message of Advent: we will all soon face, not a helpless baby but the King of kings & Lord of lords, coming to the instant airlift Rapture rescue of all who love Jesus - as in Matthew 24:30-31, 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 & 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:11 etc - before He judges the Earth, as in Joel 3, Zechariah 14, Revelation 6 etc

Don't be left behind: pass it on

Must go

God bless!

Ian
 
lawhammer said:
What? Christmas IS already a legal religious holiday.
It was being challenged awhile back because if it were a religious holiday, then the government couldn't favor one religion over another and would not be allowed to give it as a holiday. So the courts decided that Christmas was more of a secular holiday than a religious one.

Customized holidays??????

"Christmas" = Christ + Mass

"Easter" = resurrection of Jesus Christ

Now Halloween? Keep it.
Christmas was a pagan festival. Christians changed the birthday of Jesus to coincide with it. The same is for Easter where eggs and bunnies have nothing to do with Jesus. Valentine's Day is yet another example of a pagan holiday that Christians modified to be one of their holidays.

AHIMSA said:
What I find perplexing is how many governments and departments stores are willing to issue Happy Chanuka's or take note of Ramadan during that period...yet it is felt that saying Merry Christmas is somehow offensive.
I think the stores had two choices: Say "Happy Holidays" and include every shopper or say "Merry Christmas" and only refer to a smaller set of shoppers. So they decided to be generic as possible to be the most welcoming to all is shoppers.

Wal Mart found out that Christians got really upset at not being specifically targeted for holiday cheer. So now Wal Mart will say "Merry Christmas" because the upset Christian money is greater than the extra money they get from people who like to hear "Happy Holidays." Best Buy is staying with "Happy Holidays."

It seems the War on Christmas comes earlier every year. :)
 
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