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Double Marriage

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I don't know that double marriage is something one "believes in" but I don't have any probs with it. If two couples can share the expenses of getting married then why not?

Why do you ask?
 
von said:
No, I don't mean bigamy. I mean divorce and remarriage.

I believe what the Bible says on the matter.

Matthew 19:9

Divorcing your spouse for the cause of fornication is the only authorized reason given in scriptures for remarriage (except, of course, death of your spouse Romans 7:3).


I have put my spouse away for fornication. I look foward to the possibility of a scriptural remarriage one day to a Christian man where I won't have to worry about such things. This brings to mind why we are told not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers. (2 Corinthians 6:14-17) If the Christian marries someone of like mind, and like faith, your spouse will follow the Lord's will and remember that God intended one man, one woman, for life (Matthew 19:4-6). I thank God everyday that I will have the opportunity in the future to be a Christian wife to a Christian man, if it be His will.
 
Amity: Thanks for your imput but I am really interested in speaking with someone who does not believe in divorce and remarriage. I guess most people believe in it in some form or another. I don't think you would understand since you believe in it. I'm just taking that from you saying that your spouse committed fornication. I'm assuming you mean cheated on you. That is not fornication, that is adultery. Thanks anyhow? Von
 
von. Thank you for your opinion. Your assumptions are incorrect. I do not believe in divorce and remarriage. It should be as God intended, one partner, for life. But when one spouse leaves and has sex with another person and refuses to come home, even when offered the opportunity to repent and reconcile, the innocent spouse has been given an option to put that spouse away and remarry, thus saith the Lord. Any other reason for remarriage, as I indicated above (from scripture) would be outside the will of God.


FORNICATION
Strongs:
G4202
πορνεία
porneia
por-ni'-ah
From G4203; harlotry (including adultery and incest);

Thayers:
G4202
πορνεία
porneia
Thayer Definition:
1) illicit sexual intercourse
1a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
1b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
1c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4203
Citing in TDNT: 6:579, 918

I apologize if my input based on the definitions given in scripture was not what you were looking for. I will refrain from further discussion in this thread since you have requested such. If you wish to have the "last word" and refute what I have presented, by all means, have at it. I don't like to argue. I've presented the scriputral evidence and stand by it.

In Christian love,
 
Amity, porneia refers to any and all illicit (non-specific) sexual relations and is the word from which the word pornography is derived. The word specifically used for adultery is moichea and refers specifically and exclusively to adultery.

The reason why the Messiah taught that divorce was not permitted except for porneia [NIV - 'marital unfaithfulness' - which is not really helpful and serves only to cloud the issue] was because it referred to betrothed couples who were not consumately married yet (in which case the word moichea would have been used) and therefore the word 'adultery' was not appropriate since this can only be used of couples who are consumately married, having gone under the canopy, and not just betrothed or 'engaged' to be married (Matt.5:31-32; 19:1-12).

If we say that divorce is permissable for adultery (as many Christians mistakenly believe) then what we are actually saying is that one sin (adultery) actually justifies another (divorce)?!

Thus what the Messiah was actually teaching was that, at least for believers, divorce was really only an option during the betrothal period and not once consumately married (cf.Mal.2:16).

This is borne out later on by Paul's command to married couples (which is really God's command to married couples through his apostle Paul (1Tim.3:16)) that they were to stay together come what may. However, in the event that their domestic situation got so bad that they could no longer stand to live together as a married couple then they could either separate and live as single people or get back together and, with the help of the rest of the believing community, make their marriage work, but they still could not get divorced (1Cor.7:10-11 cf. Mal.2:16).

This is especially true since believers above all other people are to bear testimony to the profound mystery that is the unique spiritual relationship between God and redeemed Humanity which is signified through the terms 'male' and 'female' and of which every marriage between a biological male and a biological female is a cameo/type/representation. Ever wondered why human marriages are only 'till death do us part'? Well, the answer is because at the resurrection the 'master marriage' between God and redeemed Humanity will finally be fully revealed for all Creation to behold in awe and wonder, thus the individual cameoes/types/ representations between individual humans will then be obsolete since the anti-type will be present so it will need no representation (cf. Matt.22:23-33).

Simonline.
 
Simonline said:
Amity, porneia refers to any and all illicit (non-specific) sexual relations and is the word from which the word pornography is derived. The word specifically used for adultery is moichea and refers specifically and exclusively to adultery.

The reason why the Messiah taught that divorce was not permitted except for porneia [NIV - 'marital unfaithfulness' - which is not really helpful and serves only to cloud the issue] was because it referred to betrothed couples who were not consumately married yet (in which case the word moichea would have been used) and therefore the word 'adultery' was not appropriate since this can only be used of couples who are consumately married, having gone under the canopy, and not just betrothed or 'engaged' to be married.

Thus what the Messiah was actually teaching was that, at least for believers, divorce was really only an option during the betrothal period and not once consumately married.

This is borne out later on by Paul's command to married couples (which is really God's command to married couples through his apostle Paul (1Tim.3:16)) who were having marital problems. In the event that their domestic situation got so bad that they could no longer stand to live together then they were to separate and live as single people or get back together and, with the help of the rest of the believing community, make their marriage work, but they were not to get divorced (1Cor.7:10-11 cf. Mal.2:16).

Simonline.

I guess if that is the case, and Jesus didn't mean what he said (or only meant Matthew 19:9 for betrothed virgins as you assert) then anyone who married without being a virgin (which is unfortunately common these days) needs to repent and get out of their current relationship, else they are damned to hell. (since unrepentant adulterers do not go to heaven) Revelation 21:8, Hebrews 13:4. Is this what you are claiming? Just trying to understand your point.

what the Messiah was actually teaching was that, at least for believers...

Unbelievers are going to be judged too. Sin is sin whether unbelievers want to acknowledge it or not. Just wanted to clarify that point. They have to obey the gospel and repent of their sins just like those who believe in Jesus do, if they want to make it to Heaven.




Just so you'll know, I am not attempting to look for loopholes in scripture because of my own situation. I also don't think Paul's teachings contradict Jesus' teachings. I do NOT think that one can remarry simply because an unbeliever departs. 1 Cor. 7 in that instance is merely stating that one is no longer under bondage to cook, clean, have sex with, etc., a spouse that leaves. As a Christian woman I am obligated to continue to attempt to win my unbelieving husband in accordance with 1 Peter 3 , as I did and continued even after he left the house. But at the point that he refused my requests to reconcile, and moved another woman into his house, I then had the right to put him away. Just as Jesus said in Matthew 19:9. If you want to add requirements to the word of God and bind something on yourself and others that are not obvious from the immediate text and context of the scriptures, well, I can't stop you. But I will say that I am very careful not to do so. I have seen others with your viewpoint before, and as for your point of remarriage under no circumstances, I respectfully disagree. That's not what the word says. Jesus didn't lie.


I am completely content with remaining alone and celibate the rest of my life if remarrying would contradict scripture. I have studied this matter extensively and have sought counsel of several brothers in Christ whom I trust in their preaching, knowledge and scholarship in their study of the word. Most importantly though, I have studied on my own to be fully pursuaded in my own mind. To doubt is to be damned. (Romans 14:23) I take very seriously living my life in a way that is pleasing and glorifying to God...I don't wish to bring any reproach on Him or Christ's church, and I wanna make it to Heaven, too. :angel:

Thank you for this dialog,
In Christian love,
 
Amity said:
Simonline said:
Amity, porneia refers to any and all illicit (non-specific) sexual relations and is the word from which the word pornography is derived. The word specifically used for adultery is moichea and refers specifically and exclusively to adultery.

The reason why the Messiah taught that divorce was not permitted except for porneia [NIV - 'marital unfaithfulness' - which is not really helpful and serves only to cloud the issue] was because it referred to betrothed couples who were not consumately married yet (in which case the word moichea would have been used) and therefore the word 'adultery' was not appropriate since this can only be used of couples who are consumately married, having gone under the canopy, and not just betrothed or 'engaged' to be married.

Thus what the Messiah was actually teaching was that, at least for believers, divorce was really only an option during the betrothal period and not once consumately married.

This is borne out later on by Paul's command to married couples (which is really God's command to married couples through his apostle Paul (1Tim.3:16)) who were having marital problems. In the event that their domestic situation got so bad that they could no longer stand to live together then they were to separate and live as single people or get back together and, with the help of the rest of the believing community, make their marriage work, but they were not to get divorced (1Cor.7:10-11 cf. Mal.2:16).

Simonline.

I guess if that is the case, and Jesus didn't mean what he said (or only meant Matthew 19:9 for betrothed virgins as you assert) then anyone who married without being a virgin (which is unfortunately common these days) needs to repent and get out of their current relationship, else they are damned to hell. (since unrepentant adulterers do not go to heaven) Revelation 21:8, Hebrews 13:4. Is this what you are claiming? Just trying to understand your point.

Repent, yes. Leave their current relationship, not necessarily, especially if their former spouse has also remarried and both parties now have new offspring to different partners. God recognizes that sometimes we still have to live with the consequences of our actions even if and when we have been forgiven for them.

what the Messiah was actually teaching was that, at least for believers...

Unbelievers are going to be judged too. Sin is sin whether unbelievers want to acknowledge it or not. Just wanted to clarify that point. They have to obey the gospel and repent of their sins just like those who believe in Jesus do, if they want to make it to Heaven.

This is not in dispute but in this life God has conceded divorce to unbelievers because of the hardness of their hearts. However, since believers are not supposed to have hard hearts God has made no such concession to them.

Just so you'll know, I am not attempting to look for loopholes in scripture because of my own situation. I also don't think Paul's teachings contradict Jesus' teachings. I do NOT think that one can remarry simply because an unbeliever departs. 1 Cor. 7 in that instance is merely stating that one is no longer under bondage to cook, clean, have sex with, etc., a spouse that leaves. As a Christian woman I am obligated to continue to attempt to win my unbelieving husband in accordance with 1 Peter 3 , as I did and continued even after he left the house. But at the point that he refused my requests to reconcile, and moved another woman into his house, I then had the right to put him away. Just as Jesus said in Matthew 19:9. If you want to add requirements to the word of God and bind something on yourself and others that are not obvious from the immediate text and context of the scriptures, well, I can't stop you. But I will say that I am very careful not to do so. I have seen others with your viewpoint before, and as for your point of remarriage under no circumstances, I respectfully disagree. That's not what the word says. Jesus didn't lie.


I am completely content with remaining alone and celibate the rest of my life if remarrying would contradict scripture. I have studied this matter extensively and have sought counsel of several brothers in Christ whom I trust in their preaching, knowledge and scholarship in their study of the word. Most importantly though, I have studied on my own to be fully pursuaded in my own mind. To doubt is to be damned. (Romans 14:23) I take very seriously living my life in a way that is pleasing and glorifying to God...I don't wish to bring any reproach on Him or Christ's church, and I wanna make it to Heaven, too. :angel:

Wow. Though we have different views I am not convinced that you are wrong in the stance that you have taken. I do, however, think you're being a bit hard on yourself considering your former partner was and is an unbeliever. In your circumstances I believe that you are now free to marry a believer since your unbelieving partner has voluntarily left you. As far as you were able you kept your side of the marriage covenant according to your Christian faith. If your unbelieving partner has left voluntarily then he is no longer sanctified by your faith and you can regard him as 'dead'. You are no longer bound by that marriage covenant. You would not be guilty of any sin. You are free to marry again providing your next partner is a fellow believer.

If, however, you choose to hold out a candle for your former partner then that is a pure act of faith on your part [rather than obedience to a specific command] and one for which I have the greatest respect and admiration.

This is a similar situation to a believer whose spouse has gone off to war and the believer later receives a report that their spouse is 'missing, presumed dead'. After holding out for many years the surviving partner finally concedes that their loved one is dead and eventually marries again. After many years of happy marriage to their new spouse the original spouse returns. What should the remarried partner then do? To whom are they morally and legally married?

I personally believe that the relevant principle here is the same principle as that for a believer with an unbelieving partner who leaves and then after many years returns to their original partner as a believer only to discover that their original partner has married another believer. In such circumstances I don't believe that God would hold those people to their original marriage covenants (especailly if there are siblings involved in the subsequent marriage covenants).

Every blessing in Christ,

Simonline.


Thank you for this dialog,
In Christian love,
 
Yes, I do believe I'm free to remarry, as you said. But because of his cheating, not the initial leaving. I think we have the same end viewpoint with a different way of getting there. :wink:

If your unbelieving partner has left voluntarily then he is no longer sanctified by your faith and you can regard him as 'dead'.

I completely understand what you are saying, but this did bring something to mind for me. I don't want him "dead" even if it is in a metaphorical sense.

I pray every day that he will one day repent and obey the gospel. I don't want his everlasting thoughts to be "she was right, I should have listened....." :sad

I know that's not what you meant....just some random thoughts on my part that may have strayed from the OP.



Thanks for your comments. I guess I should stop now, like I said I would earlier, since von was looking for people who don't believe in remarriage at all. :wink: I tend to ramble..... :angel: I pray that ya'll will let me stick around just the same. :n00b:

In Christian love,
 
You really do love him, don't you?

I believe that from a Judeo-Christian perspective a marriage contract is only binding between true believers. For unbelievers the 'binding' aspect of the marriage covenant is an ideal for which to strive and is therefore completely voluntary (hence the concession to divorce).

For believers however, once the contract has been voluntarily and truely entered into, there is nothing voluntary about it. It is binding for as long as the believer remains a believer (for reasons that I have sought to annunciate in my earlier posts).

I don't think 'von' was wanting you to abstain from posting altogether, only that she really wanted to discuss/debate with someone who did not subscribe to divorce and remarriage between Christians (someone like myself perhaps)?

Stick around, could be interesting?

Simonline.
 
Please forgive me,Amity

Amity, Please forgive me if you think that I don't want to talk to you about this subject. It's not that at all. I just have a question that can only be answered by someone who believes it the way that I do.
I don't like to get on this subject with people who believe differently because I don't stand in judgment of anyones situation. That is one thing I don't like about writing on hear. If you were actually talking to me you would not have been offended. You would have known I didn't mean it that way.
I am in that situation and just had a question for someone who understood where I was coming from. Please don't take offense. I'll talk to you.
Sounds to me like you still love your husband? You know that with God all things are possible? Von
 
Simonline said:
You really do love him don't you?

I'm actually relived that he's gone. Being married to an athiest was the hardest thing I ever had to endure. (I wasn't a Christian when we got married) BUT, I love everyone's soul who needs to come to the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4) It's my duty and joy as a Christian to share Christ's love with them and plant seeds, so that they, too, may one day be saved, as God wants for all men. (2 Peter 3:9)


Stick around, could be interesting?

K. You twisted my arm. :-D I love a good debate. I'll try to just sit on the sidelines of this one, though. (Hard as that usually is for me) :angel:
 
Simonline

Yes, I do believe somewhat like you were talking and had to study it for 2 years because I didn't want to believe it. I have left that relationship, (second marriage), because I feel like all sins must be turned away from. It wasn't easy and doesn't make me any better than anyone else. I just wondered if anyone else was in that situation and even though you choose to do what you think is right then how do you get rid of the feelings. You know, it was a different situation then when I divorced my first husband.
 
Re: Please forgive me,Amity

von said:
Amity, Please forgive me if you think that I don't want to talk to you about this subject. It's not that at all. I just have a question that can only be answered by someone who believes it the way that I do.
I don't like to get on this subject with people who believe differently because I don't stand in judgment of anyones situation. That is one thing I don't like about writing on hear. If you were actually talking to me you would not have been offended. You would have known I didn't mean it that way.
I am in that situation and just had a question for someone who understood where I was coming from. Please don't take offense. I'll talk to you.
Sounds to me like you still love your husband? You know that with God all things are possible? Von

I wasn't offended at all. I just realized that I was probably going off in a direction that you didn't intend for this thread, that's all.

How about a group hug, ya'll :-D

coffeetalk_rainbowhgs.gif
 
By the way....

By the way I guess that I should clarify that I am a woman. lol My name is Veronica, my family and friends call me Von. Sorry1
 
Group hug to you. I am not knowledgable about the computer so I don't know how to do these little icon things. I just decided to give this a try.
Thanks for understanding and not being upset.
 
It was always my understanding that, while one may divorce because of adultery by one or both partners, they can't marry again, scripturally speaking. Divorce, yes - marry someone else, no. Y'see, the way I understand, two former 'marrieds' who later marry someone else would then be guilty of committing adultery. Is that the way it works or do I have it backwards?
 
SputnikBoy said:
It was always my understanding that, while one may divorce because of adultery by one or both partners, they can't marry again, scripturally speaking. Divorce, yes - marry someone else, no. Y'see, the way I understand, two former 'marrieds' who later marry someone else would then be guilty of committing adultery. Is that the way it works or do I have it backwards?

Only the person doing the "putting away" has the right to remarry. The guilty party does not. AND, if the guilty party remarries, not only do they become an adulterer by so doing, but the person they marry becomes one as well. Not a position one should put someone they say they love in.

Matthew 19:9
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
 
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