End Time Gurus ?

Discussion in 'End Times' started by Nathan, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. Nathan

    Nathan Member

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    I got a question. I am not an end times scholar. I have a good grasp on it, but just have never sat down and started putting the puzzle pieces together.

    So I had a question come to mind and figured you all guru's might be able to answer it to me in simple terms.

    Daniel had a vision of 70 weeks. But, is there anywhere that at the very end of the 70th week it is prophesied that will be the day Christ returns?

    I do not wish to run this down a end times view trail, going into the different doctrines. I simply want to know if there is Scripture that states the end of the 70th week is the time Christ returns. When I looked a little, I could not personally gather that it was indicated as such, but I see so many 'outlines' that do show it as such.
     
  2. Jim Parker

    Jim Parker Member

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    Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Figuring out the day of Christ's return at the end of the 70th week and when the 70 weeks started and will end or did end has been a tantalizing mystery for a very long time and many many false prophets and Bible expositors have made erroneous predictions as to when Jesus will come.

    The New Advent movement of the early 1800s was very popular in Europe and the USA. The leading preacher in the USA was William Miller and he was so popular that his followers were called "Millerites."
    He predicted that Jesus would return in 1843. Jesus didn't return.
    He concluded that he had miscalculated and said it should be in 1844. Jesus didn't return.
    He then stated that he had been foolish to attempt to predict the date of Jesus' return.

    The 7th Day Adventists came up with a different explanation for Jesus' failure to appear: the "Investigative Judgement." What that meant was that the date was right but the event was not Jesus' return but that on that date, "Jesus went into the heavenly tabernacle and began to look up all the names of who was saved and who was not saved in the Book of Life."

    A spin-off organization from the 7thDAs is the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Jehovah's Witnesses. They have predicted Jesus' return 5 times between 1875 and 1975 and claim that "he came invisibly."

    So, my question to your would be, "Do you really want to join that Parade?".

    Jesus' teaching is:
    (1) The time of his return is none of our business. (Mat 24:36)
    (2) Our business is to be found faithfully doing the Lord's will for us. (Mat 24:45-46, 50-51)

    Or: Don't worry about when Jesus will show up; just attend to the work He gave you to do so that when he does return, you won't be ashamed because of your lack of faithfulness.

    I know. That doesn't make for an exciting, ear-tickling sermon that makes people want to put BIG checks in the offering plate.
    Oh well!

    My two kopecks :shrug


    iakov the fool
    (beaucoup dien cai dau)


    DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.
     
  3. Eugene

    Eugene Staff Member Moderator

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    Dear Brother Nathan, I do not mean to further add confusion to the mix, but the following scriptures & comments are the foundation of my thoughts on the matter.

    Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
    Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
    Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
    This taking away is to await judgment of unbelievers prior to the millennium, and Mat 24:42 further warns them on the earth at that time “Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.”
    Mat 24:43. If the good man of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and would not have suffered his house to be broken up." Readiness for His coming is the absolute requirement to escape from judgment. The Son of Man is coming in such an hour as men think not. They will not believe His word; therefore they will not be looking for Him. Judgment will surely come upon them.

    The Tribulation
    The Last week of Daniel
    Notice,
    this isn’t the 70th week of Daniel which was complete in 40 AD. This is the last week of Daniel of (Dan 9:27).
    All seven years is the Hour of Temptation which shall come upon all the world ( Rev 3:10).
    The second 3 1/2 years is the Great Tribulation (Matt 24:21). It will be limited mainly to Palestine.

    During the first 3 1/2 years of this tribulation, there will be translations of different ranks of believers (1Cor 15:41-42) that were not full overcomers and were not kept from the hour of temptation as the Philadelphia church was promised in (Rev 3:10). Read of the different rewards of the churches dependent on their obedience and love of the Lord and the faults Jesus describes of some of them in the 2nd and 3rd chapters of Revelations. They will not precede those being resurrected of their same rank of believers whose physical bodies are asleep, but alive and present in soul and spirit with Christ (2 Cor 5:8). God will bring them with Him to meet their rank in the air (1 Thes 4:14-17).

    This is The day of the Lord when Jesus takes His throne (Rev 4:2). This day will last 1000 years (2 Pet 3:8).
    Until this time, all authority and power was given to Jesus, but He had not taken it. This is the time He takes that authority. See (Matt 28:18), (1 Cor 15:28), (Heb 2:8) and (1 Pet 3:22).

    :shrug
     
  4. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

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    Jer 25:11 And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.
    Jer 25:12 And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations.
    Jer 25:13 And I will bring upon that land all my words which I have pronounced against it, even all that is written in this book, which Jeremiah hath prophesied against all the nations.

    Jer 29:10 For thus saith the LORD, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place.

    2Ch 36:20 And them that had escaped from the sword carried he away to Babylon; where they were servants to him and his sons until the reign of the kingdom of Persia:
    2Ch 36:21 To fulfil the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years.
    2Ch 36:22 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD spoken by the mouth of Jeremiah might be accomplished, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying,
     
  5. dirtfarmer

    dirtfarmer Member

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    hello Nathan, dirtfarmer here

    There are many different thoughts about the " end times" and the regathering of Israel and what it means. You can read the different theories but it is best to study and draw your own conclusion. There are those that have been guided by the Spirit and understand the "End Times", but there are more that don't understand than there are that understand. Do I understand correctly? from scriptures that I have read and studied I have not found any discrepancies in what I understand, but I am no scholar.

    I would suggest studying these scriptures : Isaiah 11:12, Amos 9:14-15, Romans 11:26, Ezekiel 11:16-20, Ezekiel 38:8, and Ezekiel 39:25-29, to wet your feet first and then you can begin a deeper and more intense study from where these scriptures lead.

    Israel is the only nation in history, that was exiled from their homeland for about 1900 years and then returned and re-established as a nation with their cultural and religious identities.

    One thing that I will add with this "edit" is that Jerusalem was not under Israel's control until the "6 day war" in 1967.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
  6. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

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    Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
     
  7. dirtfarmer

    dirtfarmer Member

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    hello reba, dirtfarmer here

    Yes I agree 100% with that. Israel has never in history ever completely ruled over all the land that God promised to Abram and his seed. But!!! one day they will, during the millennium.
     
  8. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

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    Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
    Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
    Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.
     
  9. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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    I agree.
     
  10. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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    The cities mentioned here are in the land of Caanan which Israel had conquered and the cities were now being distributed to the tribes as places to live. Caanan, at that time, approximately corresponds to present day Israel, syria, lebananon and jordan. Israels western border was at the Brook/River of Egypt (not the Nile) and the eastern border at the Euphrates. This did not include Egypyt proper or the Arabian peninsula (as some maps are sometimes drawn).
     
  11. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

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    Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
    Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.
     
  12. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

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    Those cities are in the promised land correct?

    en 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
     
  13. dirtfarmer

    dirtfarmer Member

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    hello reba, dirtfarmer here

    The thing that I think that causes controversy is that Israel owned( possessed) the land but they never occupied all of it until David in 2 Samuel 8:3. In Judges 1 we find that the Canaanites dwelt among the Israelites. In verse 28 of Chapter 1 of Judges it states in the last clause: " and did not utterly drive them out" Verse 29 states: " Neither sis Ephraim drive out the Canaanites that dwelt in Gezer. The rest of Judges reveals many of those they were to drive out lived among them or in separate pockets of land apart from the Israelites, verse 34.
     
  14. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

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    Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
    Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

    We see things differently in this area ..
     
  15. ezra

    ezra Member

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    i was listening to a gaither series and anthony burger was telling about the time his son was in a Easter play. at the end of the play his son ran inside the tomb and yelled out ready or not here i come.. he then laughed then said what a very prophetic statement . i want to be ready with lamp ready with extra oil .that is the important part be ready .NO man can predict when Christ will return:readbible
     
  16. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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    I certainly did not check them all but the ones I looked at appeared to be. I memntioned the other parameters as PZ posted a map that seemed to show the Nile as the 'River of Egypt'" which would mean that the eastern1/3(?) of Egypt would be included in the Promised Land as well as the Arabian Peninsula; areas in which the cities that Joshua was distributing were not located. Those cities appear to be located in NT Caanan only.
     
  17. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

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    The Scripture says what is says i accept it to be correct.. there fore i will not repeat and repeat .. There are many many more Scriptures we agree on :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017 at 12:23 PM
  18. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Member

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  19. Nathan

    Nathan Member

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    No, lol, you wont catch me in that parade. :)

    I am in no way trying to figure out His return, the question just popped into my head. When I went to look for the answer, I could not see that there should be any 'gap' in Daniel's vision, but at the same time, I could not find where the return of Christ was said to be at the moment(or even that close) the 70th week ended.

    In other words, everything I have read says that the 70 weeks were for God to deal with the people of Israel. But it could be 70 more 'weeks'(random number) before He actually returns.

    I just always hear, except for the extreme views of Him already coming back and such, that the end of the 70th week is when Christ returns. That's why you see gaps and such in different time line maps. In fact, I don't think I have ever seen one 'denominations' time line map that did not have the 70 weeks of Daniel as the center piece.
     
  20. Nathan

    Nathan Member

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    Daniel 9:24-27
    “Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, land to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

    Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

    I do not see anything that indicates the return of Christ in this passage.

    What I see is that the last sentence indicates "until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator". That seems to me to say, there is an indefinite amount of time for the end, but the one who comes to make desolate will do so until that end.

    Now, further on, I do see where the return is said to be. Kind of, in chapters 11 and 12.
     

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