Discussion in 'Theology' started by DougK, Nov 19, 2017.
Was Esau rejected because he wouldn't repent or because he couldn't repent?
Hi Brother DougK. The older will follow the younger as those of the Old Covenant were to go after the new?
Easu and Jacob akin to the Old and New natures? The word “Esau” according to a study I have says his name comes to mean Adam; earthy. Jacob’s name means to surrplant.
Esau was profane. Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
Excerpt of Lessons in Genesis by Mary Bodie: Book of Beginnings.
http://www.gracegod.com/Study Books/Genesis - Book of Beginnings.pdf
NOTE: The Grace and Glory Study books are in PDF format and can be read with the free Adobe Reader
Notice: If you do a Ctrl F search once your open the study, and type in the word Esau, you will be taken to page #67, and the portion written of Esau goes through page #71 if not further.
God had said this to Sara concerning Esau in Rom 9:12-3 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. Esau was that profane man of Heb 12:16.
Quoted from study - “The elder shall serve the younger." Here is something that is contrary to nature. In our families, the younger person serves the elder; but in God's things the elder has to serve the younger. It is not for the new man to serve the old man, but the old man is to serve the new man. The new man lives in the old man's house. The old man has no right in the house anymore. The new man is the boss there. The new man always wants to come to meeting, so the flesh has to come along. He has to bring the new man. The new man is the ruler of the house. He is to be obeyed. The flesh is never to be obeyed any longer. He is a servant. The new man's word is supreme. He is the stronger. The flesh seems the stronger; but the new man has come from Almighty God. "The flesh lusted against the Spirit" - Gal. 5:17. Hence, this is the opportunity of overcoming. There would be nothing to overcome if we had our glorified body. The Lord Jesus Christ did not have a glorified body. He did not have any outward sign of being the Son of God; tho inwardly He had the life of God. He had no old creation; neither had He a new creation body.”
Esau was not called but Jacob was, (Gen. 25:23) for God, according to election, before either one was born or had done good or bad, so that election might stand and not of works, but of God who calls. For the children of the flesh are NOT the children of God.....but only the children of promise. (Romans 9:6-13) Man has no carnal work to bring before the Lord...nothing! But salvation is not dependent on man, for there is no righteous man, there has never been a righteous man from Adam to the present....no not one (Romans 3:9-20) Righteousness is only attributed to man by God through the Grace of God in Jesus Christ. (Romans 3:21-30). Not by works, but by faith (taking God at His word) (Titus 3:5-7) (Eph. 2:8-9) (Rom. 4:6-7) (Rom. 10:3) (Rom. 5:17-18) (Phil. 3:9) (Rom. 3:22) (Rom. 8:3-4) (Rom. 4:3-5) (Gal. 3:10-11)... And I can give you another 87 verses that say, Righteousness is by faith...not of works.
This irritates man, because he just has to think he has a hand in his own righteousness, or he has to know exactly why or explain why God did things a certain way....., So, as man would say, "that's not fair",.....So what does man know about being fair? When has man been fair?.....ever? Fair to man is only when he gets his way or what he wants or what ever goes his way. But God is sovereign. The Birth Line of the Savior was predestined by God (before the foundation of the world) (Eph. 1:3-5) Esau despised His birthright.(Gen. 25:29-34) ..But that is what Esau did, not God. Rebekah plotted for Isaac to give the blessing of the birthright to her favorite, Jacob (Genesis chapter 27) But that was her doing. It had nothing to do with what Rebekah wanted, For God had already called it, He did not need her help (Gen. 25:23). But it was Esau's own will to sell his birthright (he really did not think much of it). So even if God had not called Jacob, Esau would have lost his birthright any way. So by the rights of the blessings given by Isaac to Jacob, Esau could not have gotten it back no matter how hard he grieved.
(Romans Chapter 9) (Heb. 12;26-17) Before creation, God had planned a way through His called bloodline for a redeemer for the man that listened to His decree of Grace. For even in the Old Covenant, the OT saints were saved by grace looking forward.
I was just going to say that Esau's repentence or lack of repentence is not the real issue. Esau was rejected because God chose Jacob. No one but God fully understand why God does what He does.
Of course all the other answers were so much better than mine.
Esau was never interested in repenting God did not reject him he rejected God
Hi Eugene, Have you noticed, that most of those that God called in the chosen blood line of Israel and The savior were always of the Younger. (Cain and Seth) (Adam and Christ) (Esau and Jacob) (Reuben and Joseph) (Saul and David)
Interesting. That just brought Solomon and his brother Nathan to mind also, and then we do read of Israeli in the following scriptures.
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
1Co 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: . . .
1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
Some questions DEFINITELY feel above my pay grade, but just throwing this out for comment:
Malachi 1:1-5 NASB
1 The oracle of the word of the LORD to Israel through Malachi.
2 “I have loved you,” says the LORD. But you say, “How have You loved us?” “Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the LORD. “Yet I have loved Jacob; 3 but I have hated Esau, and I have made his mountains a desolation and appointed his inheritance for the jackals of the wilderness.” 4 Though Edom says, “We have been beaten down, but we will return and build up the ruins”; thus says the LORD of hosts, “They may build, but I will tear down; and men will call them the wicked territory, and the people toward whom the LORD is indignant forever.” 5 Your eyes will see this and you will say, “The LORD be magnified beyond the border of Israel!”
Romans 9:10-16 NASB
10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12 it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.” 13 Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”
14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15 For He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.” 16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
I think God may have rejected Esau as well.
If you asked Rebecca about her sons and family situation she would say, "Well, it is complicated."
are you reformed doctrine ?
complicated / mess it was
I'm not talking about "Esau" in terms of the rejected line that would lead to Jesus. And I'm not talking about "Esau" in terms of what he stood for, a nation rejected by God. I was talking about Esau, the person. He sold his birthright and was profane. Peter denied Jesus and spoke profanity. Judas was greedy. What's worse?? I'm interested in how the story of Esau's own personal decisions impacts us as we follow Christ. In the book of Hebrews 12:12-17 is the passage I meant to cite. In verse 17, "he couldn't find a place for repentance, though he [Esau] sought for it with tears" is either talking about the blessing he sought with tears, or talking about repentance he sought with tears, but couldn't find it. In the context of the whole story of redemption in the bible, God will always desires and allows a sinner to repent, especially if he seeks and knocks at the door.
So I believe although Esau sought the blessing (of birthright) with tears, and was rejected as far as being the line that would lead to Jesus (having lost his birthright) - and at the time, was not repentant because he sought the blessing of the birthright he sold, and not the will of God for his life post-selling his birthright. The main thing I wanted to bring out was that it wasn't that he couldn't repent. He could have. He wouldn't repent.
Does the bible support reformed doctrine in the quoted verses?
I just pointed to sections of scripture that appear at first glance to say that God can hate someone (Esau).
(I didn't write the verses and I am careful to leave it to each person to interpret what they mean on their own. I simply feel it is dangerous to pretend they do not exist.)
most reformers use these scriptures very heavy to support there doctrine Esau made the choice it is rather odd the way Jacob got the Birthright . even though God promised it to him... God knows our hearts. i also compare it to Cain and able God rejected cain offering. cain had a bad heart .i even believe Judas had a chance
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