Essential vs Nonessential

[Papa Zoom]

1 Corinthians 11:19 For indeed it is necessary that there be factions among you, in order that those who are approved may become evident among you. ​

Factions/divisons are indeed necessary in order that those who have the Biblical based evidence for their doctrines are evident from those who do not.

That cannot possibly apply in this case. That is cherry picking. That is NOT what is happening here by the slightest stretch.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Ephesians 4New International Version (NIV)
Unity and Maturity in the Body of Christ
4 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

1 Corinthians 1:10
10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought.

Psalm 133:1
1 How good and pleasant it is when God’s people live together in unity!

1 Peter 3:8
8 Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble.

 

[billybalke]

Yet you replied to me claiming to have said "rightly divided God's word".



Are you suggesting that these statements are precisely equivalent to each other??? They're not. But you may have very well meant to communicate the same principle only using different wording.

Seems awfully hypocritical coming from someone who is looking for the exact English wording "we are saved at the MOMENT one believes" from Greek Scripture.


I haven't asked you any questions. I posted Scriptures that answered yours.
But if you're in the mood to answer a question, given you don't think we are saved the moment we believe, here's one:

The moment someone believes, are they now in Christ Jesus, or does that come later?

No scripture teaches the MOMENT one believes in Christ he is in Christ.

 

[Papa Zoom]

John 5:24 24Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.

 

[chessman]

That cannot possibly apply in this case. That is cherry picking. That is NOT what is happening here by the slightest stretch.

I see you are not of like mind with me on the point of Scripture I made:

8 Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble

In what way can it not "possibly apply here" (as we come together on CFNet to discuss Theology) that it is indeed necessary that there be factions among us (on the issue of eternal security), in order that those who are approved may become evident among us?

 

[Papa Zoom]

I see you are not of like mind with me on the point of Scripture I made:

In what way can it not "possibly apply here" (as we come together on CFNet to discuss Theology) that it is indeed necessary that there be factions among us (on the issue of eternal security), in order that those who are approved may become evident among us?

Christians have fought over trivial matters for years despite commands to the contrary. It's one thing to have disagreements about things. We are human and that will happen. But for something like this topic to drag on and on and on and on with no end it site....very contrary to what Scripture teaches. I don't have to be like minded with you just because you said something. But we ought to strive to unity rather than division. It's pointless for professing believers to go on and on about OSAS recycling the same arguments over and over. What's the purpose of it? We've had a half a dozen threads that covered this very topic. There's a time to walk away and leave something alone. This dead horse has no flesh left to pound.

Haven't you noticed how mean-spirited some get when discussing this topic? Why is that?

I've made my views on this issue clear. What's the point of repeating it over and over again? Is it because some just want the last word?

 

[billybalke]

Thanks for the admission that NO scripture says we are saved at the MOMENT one believes. You are making progress!

Yet you replied to me claiming to have said "rightly divided God's word".



Are you suggesting that these statements are precisely equivalent to each other??? They're not. But you may have very well meant to communicate the same principle only using different wording.

Seems awfully hypocritical coming from someone who is looking for the exact English wording "we are saved at the MOMENT one believes" from Greek Scripture.


I haven't asked you any questions. I posted Scriptures that answered yours.
But if you're in the mood to answer a question, given you don't think we are saved the moment we believe, here's one:

The moment someone believes, are they now in Christ Jesus, or does that come later?

To answer your question, no, the moment one believes one is not IN Christ Jesus.

 

[Papa Zoom]

To answer your question, no, the moment one believes one is not IN Christ Jesus.

this happens when?

 

[billybalke]

this happens when?

Can you think of a scripture which tells us how we get into Christ?

 

[Papa Zoom]

the moment one believes one is not IN Christ Jesus.

I'm asking you a question for the claim above. Perhaps you can answer this instead of asking a question?

Can you think of a scripture which tells us how we get into Christ?

I can think of a lot of verses that speak of being in Christ. But I'm asking you to answer the question to a claim you made. Don't answer a question with a question.

 

[billybalke]

I'm asking you a question for the claim above. Perhaps you can answer this instead of asking a question?

I can think of a lot of verses that speak of being in Christ. But I'm asking you to answer the question to a claim you made. Don't answer a question with a question.

The "lots of verses that speak of being in Christ" may not tell how one got "into Christ" Would you care to address this on the one-on-one? No one else seems to want to. No offense intended in my reply, God bless.

 

[Papa Zoom]

The "lots of verses that speak of being in Christ" may not tell how one got "into Christ" Would you care to address this on the one-on-one? No one else seems to want to. No offense intended in my reply, God bless.

That would be fine. Topic is "Being In Christ" then? And the format?

 

[gr8grace3]

Ephesians 4New International Version (NIV)
Unity and Maturity in the Body of Christ
4 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

1 Corinthians 1:10
10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought.

Psalm 133:1
1 How good and pleasant it is when God’s people live together in unity!

1 Peter 3:8
8 Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble.

Zoom." In unity" means speaking truth from the Spirit and His Word with other believers.

Many on this site are trying to tell us that we are not saved until "such and such of our good works" happens. They admit openly that they are not PRESENTLY saved. Unity is a pipe dream, if we have people that ADMIT that they are not saved at this moment.........and that includes anyone who thinks that they are saved and can lose salvation. There is no unity with the person who knows the truth of eternal security and the person who denies eternal security. There can and should be respect, but there is no unity in these two apposing groups.

 

[billybalke]

That would be fine. Topic is "Being In Christ" then? And the format?

Thank you sir. If "Being in Christ" is what you choose that should work. If you would, please tell me what you will affirm. If we can both agree, WIP will put us on. I have a very ill wife at this time and the one on one allows me to attend discussion as time allows. You are also allotted the same freedom. May I hear from you about your affirmation. Thank you, and God bless.

BTW I am not a preacher, just an ex-military man an business man at age 86. The Lord willing I will begin a one on one with another gentleman on this forum. Looks like I may have my hands full.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Zoom." In unity" means speaking truth from the Spirit and His Word with other believers.

Many on this site are trying to tell us that we are not saved until "such and such of our good works" happens. They admit openly that they are not PRESENTLY saved. Unity is a pipe dream, if we have people that ADMIT that they are not saved at this moment.........and that includes anyone who thinks that they are saved and can lose salvation. There is no unity with the person who knows the truth of eternal security and the person who denies eternal security. There can and should be respect, but there is no unity in these two apposing groups.

Yes and I believe they are in error. But what more can be said? People ought to make their case and then leave it there. Typically these kinds of topics get out of hand. People get so emotional over their positions.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Thank you sir. If "Being in Christ" is what you choose that should work. If you would, please tell me what you will affirm. If we can both agree, WIP will put us on. I have a very ill wife at this time and the one on one allows me to attend discussion as time allows. You are also allotted the same freedom. May I hear from you about your affirmation. Thank you, and God bless.

BTW I am not a preacher, just an ex-military man an business man at age 86. The Lord willing I will begin a one on one with another gentleman on this forum. Looks like I may have my hands full.

When a person puts their faith in Christ's finished work on the Cross, they are saved and are immediately in Christ at that very moment. Salvation is instant. And once saved, the Holy Spirit begins his work in the believer's life conforming them to the image of the Son. Sanctification takes a lifetime. We're always growing. Jesus is the good Shepherd. We are His sheep. We are kept by Him and He won't let any of us go astray. Our salvation is secure and sure. I have lots of Scripture to hold up these views.

So what I'd propose is we state our positions (mine's above) and then each take turns offering our arguments, provide supporting Scripture, after which we'd have a time for questions to each other, offer objections and rejoinders, and then simply let the topic soak in for people who might be following to do some studies on their own.

Hope your wife gets to feeling better. I'm retired now so no hurry. I have more time than money!

 

[billybalke]

When a person puts their faith in Christ's finished work on the Cross, they are saved and are immediately in Christ at that very moment. Salvation is instant. And once saved, the Holy Spirit begins his work in the believer's life conforming them to the image of the Son. Sanctification takes a lifetime. We're always growing. Jesus is the good Shepherd. We are His sheep. We are kept by Him and He won't let any of us go astray. Our salvation is secure and sure. I have lots of Scripture to hold up these views.

So what I'd propose is we state our positions (mine's above) and then each take turns offering our arguments, provide supporting Scripture, after which we'd have a time for questions to each other, offer objections and rejoinders, and then simply let the topic soak in for people who might be following to do some studies on their own.

Hope your wife gets to feeling better. I'm retired now so no hurry. I have more time than money!

Thank you sir. At this age I have little time left and little money but blessed.

Your suggested format is acceptable. If you will get with WIP to put us on and begin your affirmation I will appreciate it. It may be Monday before I can began, we have an native Indian whom our small congregation supports to be with us this Lord's day and I shall be there most of the day God being willing.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Thank you sir. At this age I have little time left and little money but blessed.

Your suggested format is acceptable. If you will get with WIP to put us on and begin your affirmation I will appreciate it. It may be Monday before I can began, we have an native Indian whom our small congregation supports to be with us this Lord's day and I shall be there most of the day God being willing.

I have a family thing tomorrow so likely I won't get to it until Monday. I'll notify WIP.

 

[chessman]

I asked

The moment someone believes, are they now in Christ Jesus, or does that come later?

Your 'answer' is

No scripture teaches the MOMENT one believes in Christ he is in Christ.

and

To answer your question, no, the moment one believes one is not IN Christ Jesus.

Scripture says otherwise. Telling us when it happened (now) and how it happened (by the blood of Christ).

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ.​

 

[billybalke]

I asked


Your 'answer' is

and


Scripture says otherwise. Telling us when it happened (now) and how it happened (by the blood of Christ).

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ.​

Pappa Zoom and I will discuss these matters on the one on one so "stay tuned".