Eternal life - What is this?

[PeterJens]

I ask this question not to be provocative but to list the variations of meaning different people bring to the table.
I have expanded my view on this over the years and am surprised how narrow some interpret this to be.

My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
I and the Father are one
John 10:27-30

Eternal life - Life with Christ that once given can never be removed ie salvation
Eternal life - Life with Christ if followed to the end, will result is salvation and eternity with Christ
Eternal life - A new spirit from heaven given to the believer which is perfect and can never fail
Eternal life - A commitment to not send the believer to the lake of fire no matter what.
Eternal life - A commitment if followed through obedience, will lead to avoiding the lake of fire

In some teaching, a sinner is a dog or pig, who through being reborn becomes a sheep.
Some suggest this transformation though founded on faith, can be false if the believer believes
they can lose it again, ie it is conditional while not being conditional.

Some regard eternal life like getting on a train, that will arrive at its destination if you do not get
off along the way.

Others think of it like a ticket that will get you into heaven, which you hold, though what happens
to you now, in the present will not effect the value of the ticket. Such a believer expresses they
feel no different than the world except having faith in Jesus, and will put on a good show to help
others believe, but their are no obligations to be different than the world, in fact believing such a
thing is legalism and heresy.

I look at this slightly differently. I love Christ and trust Him. If He tells me to do something I will
do it. It will take time, training, perseverance, faith, love, following, listening, but in the Spirit I
will arrive through His strength, but I have to choose to do and put the effort in, nothing is automatic.
Eternal life to me is to be like Jesus, to become one with Him, no matter how distant that appears
to be, it is our goal, to walk as Jesus did, which does sound odd, especially with the common church
cynicism that is so prevalent.

Eternal life is crucial to our understanding of Jesus, but some seem very confused, believing ideas that
Jesus clearly does not agree with. The main issue is obedience to His commands. To believe Jesus is
to put into practise what He has said.

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matt 7:24

Some appear to want to rebel against this obvious command, which I find odd for someone who claims
to love Jesus and want to listen and learn from Him.

"Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
John 14:21

 

[Jim Parker]

You are actually talking about how one gets eternal life more than what eternal life is.
And I believe your conclusions are accurate.

But what is it?

It seems to me to be unending life, as a spiritual body (whatever that looks like) intimately united to Christ, partaking of the Divine nature, in perfect peace, joy and love. It's what we were created to experience.

My best guess.

iakov the fool

 

[PeterJens]

You are actually talking about how one gets eternal life more than what eternal life is.
And I believe your conclusions are accurate.

But what is it?

It seems to me to be unending life, as a spiritual body (whatever that looks like) intimately united to Christ, partaking of the Divine nature, in perfect peace, joy and love. It's what we were created to experience.

My best guess.

iakov the fool

I think you have highlighted the problem. Eternal life is something words can hint at, and mention
parts of, suggest what happens, what a person looks like who has it, how it continues, but never fully
describe it. It maybe like saying how does this meal taste. It tastes differently for all, though the contents
are the same, until you try it, it is just other peoples words.

When I was young, I was in my room having believed Jesus, and knowing I believed in Him I wanted something
more. So I started to praise Him. My heart lifted and a feeling of elation, communion, touching the untouchable
followed.

What I have also had is some people for whatever reason felt they disagreed with what I was sharing about
myself and my view on faith, so said what I had experienced was somehow not with God but an evil spirit.
This made me take a step back, not because I thought it was true, but because they had the idea to suggest
such a thing based on nothing but praise to Jesus and God the Father.

It made me think that spiritually much more is going on in others than we give credit for, and their hearts for
many reasons will rebel against what we share. Jesus faced the same thing, and I have come to see the antagonism
some feel expresses what Kingdom authority brings. Praise the Lord, His love and words are eternal and we are
secure in His love, Amen. Everything is pure until shown not, not the other way around.

 

[chessman]

I look at this slightly differently. I love Christ and trust Him. If He tells me to do something I will
do it. It will take time, training, perseverance, faith, love, following, listening, but in the Spirit I
will arrive through His strength, but I have to choose to do and put the effort in, nothing is automatic.

In the answer you gave, you do the following actions:

1. love Christ
2. trust Him
3. do something He tells me to do
4. train
5. persevere
6. choose
7. effort

Jesus spoke these things, and having lifted-up His eyes to heaven, said, “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, so that the Son may glorify You— just as You gave Him authority over all flesh in order that as to all that You have given Him, He may give eternal life to them. And this is eternal life: that they may be knowing You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ Whom You sent-forth. I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given to Me that I should do. And now Father, You glorify Me with Yourself with the glory which I was having with You before the world was. And I am no longer in the world, and they are in the world, and I am coming to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name which You have given to Me, in order that they may be one, just as We are. When I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given to Me. And I guarded them, and none of them perished— except the son of destruction, in order that the Scripture might be fulfilled.​

John 17:1-5,11-12 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 17:1-5,11-12&version=DLNT

In John’s answer, however, The Son and The Father do the following actions:

1. Jesus spoke
2. Jesus lifted-up His eyes to heaven
3. Jesus said, “Father, the hour has come ...
4. The Father glorified The Son
5. The Son glorified The Father
6. The Father gave The Son authority over all flesh
7. The Son gives eternal life to those His Father gave to Him
8. The Son answers the OP question;

And this is eternal life: that they may be knowing (3rd person) You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ Whom You sent-forth.​

9. The Son accomplished the work which The Father had sent Him to do
10. The Son asks The Father to keep them
in Your name
11. The Son kept the ones given to Him
12. The Son guarded them

 

[PeterJens]

Hi chessman,

The way you laid out your observation it appears you are saying I am doing something
which is different to what God is doing through Christ.

Now I was expressing my faith response to what Christ has done.
Are you suggesting my experience is wrong, rather than just a testimony to a spiritual
reality?

I was sharing about how head knowledge becomes heart knowledge.
Is this a problem for you?

 

[chessman]

Are you suggesting my experience is wrong, rather than just a testimony to a spiritual
reality?

No

I was sharing about how head knowledge becomes heart knowledge.
Is this a problem for you?

No

 

[Maria E Abreu]

I ask this question not to be provocative but to list the variations of meaning different people bring to the table.
I have expanded my view on this over the years and am surprised how narrow some interpret this to be.

My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
I and the Father are one
John 10:27-30

Eternal life - Life with Christ that once given can never be removed ie salvation
Eternal life - Life with Christ if followed to the end, will result is salvation and eternity with Christ
Eternal life - A new spirit from heaven given to the believer which is perfect and can never fail
Eternal life - A commitment to not send the believer to the lake of fire no matter what.
Eternal life - A commitment if followed through obedience, will lead to avoiding the lake of fire

In some teaching, a sinner is a dog or pig, who through being reborn becomes a sheep.
Some suggest this transformation though founded on faith, can be false if the believer believes
they can lose it again, ie it is conditional while not being conditional.

Some regard eternal life like getting on a train, that will arrive at its destination if you do not get
off along the way.

Others think of it like a ticket that will get you into heaven, which you hold, though what happens
to you now, in the present will not effect the value of the ticket. Such a believer expresses they
feel no different than the world except having faith in Jesus, and will put on a good show to help
others believe, but their are no obligations to be different than the world, in fact believing such a
thing is legalism and heresy.

I look at this slightly differently. I love Christ and trust Him. If He tells me to do something I will
do it. It will take time, training, perseverance, faith, love, following, listening, but in the Spirit I
will arrive through His strength, but I have to choose to do and put the effort in, nothing is automatic.
Eternal life to me is to be like Jesus, to become one with Him, no matter how distant that appears
to be, it is our goal, to walk as Jesus did, which does sound odd, especially with the common church
cynicism that is so prevalent.

Eternal life is crucial to our understanding of Jesus, but some seem very confused, believing ideas that
Jesus clearly does not agree with. The main issue is obedience to His commands. To believe Jesus is
to put into practise what He has said.

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matt 7:24

Some appear to want to rebel against this obvious command, which I find odd for someone who claims
to love Jesus and want to listen and learn from Him.

"Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
John 14:21

The bible tells us what eternal life is.

3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. John 17:3 NIV


Knowing Christ is eternal life.


Mary used this same word, in describing her virginity.


Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?” Luke 1:34


Being one with Christ, as a wife is one with her husband, united as one.


I believe the bible lends itself to this description throughout the New Testament.


Those who have Christ, have eternal life.


Pretty simple.




ME

 

[chessman]

Mary used this same word, in describing her virginity.

Actually that’s incorrect.

Mary used a 1st person verb form (I know) whereas Jesus used a 3rd person verb (should know)

ginōskō
γινώσκω ?
I know
V-PIA-1S
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/1.htm

ginōskōsin
γινώσκωσιν
they should know
V-PSA-3P
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/17.htm

1st person λύομεν we loose​

2nd person λύετε you (plural) loose​

3rd person λύουσι they loose​

The idea of using different verb forms for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd person subjects and for plural and singular subjects should not seem strange to us. We do this in English, though not as consistently. Again, consider the verb "go". We say, "I go" but "he goes." The form of the verb changes to reflect a change in person. We say "he goes" but "they go." The form of the verb changes to reflect a change from singular to plural.​

http://www.ntgreek.net/lesson12.htm

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

I ask this question not to be provocative but to list the variations of meaning different people bring to the table.
I have expanded my view on this over the years and am surprised how narrow some interpret this to be.

My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
I and the Father are one
John 10:27-30

Eternal life - Life with Christ that once given can never be removed ie salvation
Eternal life - Life with Christ if followed to the end, will result is salvation and eternity with Christ
Eternal life - A new spirit from heaven given to the believer which is perfect and can never fail
Eternal life - A commitment to not send the believer to the lake of fire no matter what.
Eternal life - A commitment if followed through obedience, will lead to avoiding the lake of fire

In some teaching, a sinner is a dog or pig, who through being reborn becomes a sheep.
Some suggest this transformation though founded on faith, can be false if the believer believes
they can lose it again, ie it is conditional while not being conditional.

Some regard eternal life like getting on a train, that will arrive at its destination if you do not get
off along the way.

Others think of it like a ticket that will get you into heaven, which you hold, though what happens
to you now, in the present will not effect the value of the ticket. Such a believer expresses they
feel no different than the world except having faith in Jesus, and will put on a good show to help
others believe, but their are no obligations to be different than the world, in fact believing such a
thing is legalism and heresy.

I look at this slightly differently. I love Christ and trust Him. If He tells me to do something I will
do it. It will take time, training, perseverance, faith, love, following, listening, but in the Spirit I
will arrive through His strength, but I have to choose to do and put the effort in, nothing is automatic.
Eternal life to me is to be like Jesus, to become one with Him, no matter how distant that appears
to be, it is our goal, to walk as Jesus did, which does sound odd, especially with the common church
cynicism that is so prevalent.

Eternal life is crucial to our understanding of Jesus, but some seem very confused, believing ideas that
Jesus clearly does not agree with. The main issue is obedience to His commands. To believe Jesus is
to put into practise what He has said.

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matt 7:24

Some appear to want to rebel against this obvious command, which I find odd for someone who claims
to love Jesus and want to listen and learn from Him.

"Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
John 14:21

Amen and amazing ! This resonates with my heart and soul. To me, this is sound and accurate doctrine

 

[Jim Parker]

(A)When I was young, I was in my room having believed Jesus, and knowing I believed in Him I wanted something more. So I started to praise Him. My heart lifted and a feeling of elation, communion, touching the untouchable followed.

(B) What I have also had is some people for whatever reason felt they disagreed with what I was sharing about
myself and my view on faith, so said what I had experienced was somehow not with God but an evil spirit.

(A) YEAH!!!!!
(B) BOOOOO!!!

 

[Maria E Abreu]

Actually that’s incorrect.

Actually it's not incorrect.

Both John 17:3 and Luke 1:34 use the same Greek word.

ginōskō

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G1097&t=KJV


Luk 1:34 KJV
Then G1161 said G2036 Mary G3137 unto G4314 the angel, G32How G4459 shall G2071 G0 this G5124 be, G2071 seeing G1893 I know G1097 not G3756 a man? G435


Jhn 17:3 KJV
And G1161 this G3778 is G2076 life G2222 eternal, G166 that G2443 they might know G1097 thee G4571 the only G3441true G228 God, G2316 and G2532 Jesus G2424 Christ, G5547whom G3739 thou hast sent. G649



To know Jesus Christ as a wife knows her husband and is one with Him is a common theme of the New Testament.

30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. Ephesians 5:30-33 NKJV


Whether you agree or not, the Church is the wife of Jesus Christ and can certainly be divorced from Him, if she is unfaithful.




ME

 

[chessman]

Both John 17:3 and Luke 1:34 use the same Greek word.

A deeper word study (Theology) shows the technical differences in the two different verb forms in these two different passages, as I said. See the links in my post you quoted, if interested, or unhide the Thayer’s or Strong’s information about their different meanings in the link you provided.

The most significant difference clearly being the 1st person verb Mary used versus the 3rd person verb Jesus used in His meaning of “eternal life”.

Jesus’s word [from your link]:

to become acquainted with, to know, is employed in the N. T. of the knowledge of God and Christ, and of the things relating to them or proceeding from them;​

a. τόν Θεόν, the one, true God, in contrast with the polytheism of the Gentiles: Romans 1:21; Galatians 4:9; also τόν μόνον ἀληθινόν Θεόν, John 17:3 ​

Versus

Mary’s word [from your link]:

a Hebraistic euphemism (cf. Winer's Grammar, 18), found also in Greek writings from the Alexandrian age down, γινώσκω is used of the carnal connection of male and female​

​

 

[Jim Parker]

To know Jesus Christ as a wife knows her husband and is one with Him is a common theme of the New Testament.

30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. Ephesians 5:30-33 NKJV

Whether you agree or not, the Church is the wife of Jesus Christ and can certainly be divorced from Him, if she is unfaithful.

Well said.

iakov the fool

 

[chessman]

Those who have Christ, have eternal life.

Wouldn't you need to be knowing His Father too, IAW Jesus' definition of eternal life?

John 17:3 Disciples’ Literal New Testament (DLNT)​

3 And this is eternal life: that they may be knowing You [Father, v1], the only true God, and .... ​

 

[chessman]

Eternal life - What is this?

I ask this question not to be provocative but to list the variations of meaning different people bring to the table.

If imitation is indeed a form of flattery, then consider Salt Life duly flattered - and lawyered up.​

The Jacksonville Beach startup has gone mainstream, with 2,000 stores nationwide selling its ocean-inspired clothing line and car decals.​

With that success comes detractors - and copyright infringers.​

http://www.jacksonville.com/news/me...lifes-popularity-keeps-company-wary-knockoffs​

Be wary of Salt Life ... I mean Eternal Life ... 'knockoffs'.

Jesus Christ and His Father hold the copyright to what Eternal Life means. There are imitators out there, however, so be wary of them.

John 17:3-4 Disciples’ Literal New Testament (DLNT)​

3 And this is eternal life: that they may be knowing You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ Whom You sent-forth. 4 I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given to Me that I should do.​

And it's their accomplished work, a done deal. Accomplished by them already for a reason:

John 17:13 Disciples’ Literal New Testament (DLNT)​

13 But now I am coming to You. And I am speaking these things in the world so that they may have My joy made-full in themselves.​

People living in what Eternal Life means, Biblically speaking, have Jesus' joy! Literally, we possess the Joy that is Jesus' in ourselves. A life well worth a bumper sticker and tee-shirt.

People living in what Eternal Life truly means, means that we have been "made-full" (Literally in it's perfect verb form, which is totally appropriate to the original since it has been accomplished by The Son and The Father (not by us).

 

[Maria E Abreu]

Wouldn't you need to be knowing His Father too, IAW Jesus' definition of eternal life?

John 17:3 Disciples’ Literal New Testament (DLNT)​

3 And this is eternal life: that they may be knowing You [Father, v1], the only true God, and .... ​

Those who have the Son, also have the Father.

Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also. 1 John 2:23 NKJV

Those who claim to know God the Father, yet deny the Son, deny both the Father and the Son.

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12 NKJV

"Life" in the verse and many others like it refer to eternal life.



ME

 

[Maria E Abreu]

A deeper word study (Theology) shows the technical differences in the two different verb forms in these two different passages,

Your "technical differences" that you claim, do not change the meaning of the word "know", which is the same in both verses that I referenced.


Both John 17:3 and Luke 1:34 use the same Greek word.

ginōskō

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G1097&t=KJV


Luk 1:34 KJV
Then G1161 said G2036 Mary G3137 unto G4314 the angel, G32How G4459 shall G2071 G0 this G5124 be, G2071 seeing G1893 I know G1097 not G3756 a man? G435


Jhn 17:3 KJV
And G1161 this G3778 is G2076 life G2222 eternal, G166 that G2443 they might know G1097 thee G4571 the only G3441true G228 God, G2316 and G2532 Jesus G2424 Christ, G5547whom G3739 thou hast sent. G649





ME

 

[chessman]

Your "technical differences" that you claim, do not change the meaning of the word "know", which is the same in both verses that I referenced.

It’s more than a claim, I provided the proof.

If there’s technically no differences in the different forms on G1097 (which by the way isn’t a word, it’s a pointer to Strong’s Lexicon of the various Greek word forms) then why is Strong’s G1097 translated in one verse as “I know” and in the other verse as “they might know”?

Where does the “might” come from out of the Greek Text, if they are the exact same words?

 

[Maria E Abreu]

It’s more than a claim, I provided the proof.

I saw no proof of the word "know" as being different, or having a different meaning in the two different verses that I quoted.

Both John 17:3 and Luke 1:34 use the same Greek word.

ginōskō

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G1097&t=KJV


Luk 1:34 KJV
Then G1161 said G2036 Mary G3137 unto G4314 the angel, G32How G4459 shall G2071 G0 this G5124 be, G2071 seeing G1893 I know G1097 not G3756 a man? G435


Jhn 17:3 KJV
And G1161 this G3778 is G2076 life G2222 eternal, G166 that G2443 they might know G1097 thee G4571 the only G3441true G228 God, G2316 and G2532 Jesus G2424 Christ, G5547whom G3739 thou hast sent. G649


Both words are number 1097 from the Strongs concordance.

The bible tells us what eternal life is.

3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. John 17:3 NIV


Knowing Christ is eternal life.


Mary used this same word, in describing her virginity.


Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?” Luke 1:34


Being one with Christ, as a wife is one with her husband, united as one.



If you have some evidence that there is another way to have eternal life, than being one with Christ, as a husband and wife who are joined together and are one, then please share this evidence with us.





ME

 

[Maria E Abreu]

If there’s technically no differences in the different forms on G1097 (which by the way isn’t a word, it’s a pointer to Strong’s Lexicon of the various Greek word forms) then why is Strong’s G1097 translated in one verse as “I know” and in the other verse as “they might know”?

As you can see, the word "know" is used in both verses, and has the same Strongs reference number, 1097.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G1097&t=KJV


Luk 1:34 KJV
Then G1161 said G2036 Mary G3137 unto G4314 the angel, G32How G4459 shall G2071 G0 this G5124 be, G2071 seeing G1893 I know G1097 not G3756 a man? G435


Jhn 17:3 KJV
And G1161 this G3778 is G2076 life G2222 eternal, G166 that G2443 they might know G1097 thee G4571 the only G3441true G228 God, G2316 and G2532 Jesus G2424 Christ, G5547whom G3739 thou hast sent. G649




ME