Eternal Security of the Believer !

[felix]

Well again you are the one who claims a completion of salvation, My salvation is complete in spirit and when I put off this body of sin, I will see Him face to face and I will know Him, just as I am known.
Again you seem to have no understanding between flesh and spirit? You do not even seem to understand how Gods love has been given to us? The scriptures you post, in no way prove any point you have tried to make. I reject that you have made any biblical point on the issue of "eternal salvation"

Again I am in doubt of you.

if you go back and see the posts, it is you who told "completion of salvation". I never mentioned it. If your salvation is complete in spirit, what is the salvation which Paul and Peter are talking about?

 

[Mitspa]

if you go back and see the posts, it is you who told "completion of salvation". I never mentioned it. If your salvation is complete in spirit, what is the salvation which Paul and Peter are talking about?

You never mentioned it? Well I know that I did not bring up the issue. As I recall you did it bring up, I could only imagine that you had failed to understand that we are are yet in a body of sin. So I tried to teach you basic biblical understanding of the flesh and spirit, which you seem to have no understanding of.
And I know the scriptures and Peter and Paul taught nothing that relates to what you are trying to affirm.

Also do you still maintain that we are subject to the law of moses? and that Gods love has not been given to us?
You see, you have little understanding and are trying to discuss issues that are over your head.

 

[Guest]

"will be saved" or "shall be saved" mentioned in the verse is future. It doesn't say "are saved".

Where in the world do you see the word 'future' or when it implies 'future'. Romans 10:9 is speaking about NOW!! You're adding and taking from scripture what you want it to say. That's precisely what false prophets do, do you understand what you're doing?

Yes, grace is a gift from God. But you totally forgot that this free grace is not for all.

Now you're all over the place man. First you say it's not a gift, now you say salvation is a gift and then you suddenly change the subject to 'it's not for all' hmmm..you need to concentrate, focus on what you're saying. Matthew 11:28 - Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest - It is for all felix, but people still deny his salvation because of unbelief. It's not sin that keeps you from salvation, it's unbelief in who Jesus Christ is.

(Hebrews 12:14-15) Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.

'Falls short' is not losing salvation. Felix, you're adding and taking from scripture again what you want it to say. You're better than that sir.

 

[felix]

You never mentioned it? Well I know that I did not bring up the issue. As I recall you did it bring up, I could only imagine that you had failed to understand that we are are yet in a body of sin. So I tried to teach you basic biblical understanding of the flesh and spirit, which you seem to have no understanding of.
And I know the scriptures and Peter and Paul taught nothing that relates to what you are trying to affirm.

Also do you still maintain that we are subject to the law of moses? and that Gods love has not been given to us?
You see, you have little understanding and are trying to discuss issues that are over your head.

Does this have anything to do with the posts that I asked you? I already mentioned that following law of Moses after the new covenant is abomination to God. I also showed you the difference from Christ's own words from sermon on the mount.

How is that, when I ask for explanation for what Paul and Peter who mentioned Salvation as future event, you never seem to address that. You also haven't replied for the post that Eternal life is hidden in Christ and never given to anyone. Instead, you reply everything except the point.

The questions are so simple:

1. Paul and Peter teach Salvation is a future event. But you say it is present and the salvation gets completed in future. So, I asked if salvation comes in installment and you never seem to address the point.
2. I also mentioned verses that eternal life is hidden in Christ and it is never given to anyone. But you never seem to address that too.

Inspite of overwhelming evidence that there no eternal security, neither salvation nor eternal life is given to anyone, you simply don't want to believe what the Bible says. Nor you are even interested in quoting Scripture or addressing the issue.

 

[felix]

Where in the world do you see the word 'future' or when it implies 'future'. Romans 10:9 is speaking about NOW!! You're adding and taking from scripture what you want it to say. That's precisely what false prophets do, do you understand what you're doing?

(Romans 10:9) If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

will
Expressing the future tense: "you will regret it later".
Intend, desire, or wish (something) to happen: "he was doing what the saint willed"

shall
(in the first person) Expressing the future tense: "this time next week I shall be in Scotland".
Expressing a strong assertion or intention: "they shall succeed".

(I suggest you had to learn English grammar).

The verb or "the action of getting saved" used in Romans 10:9 is not in present tense but future.

Now you're all over the place man. First you say it's not a gift, now you say salvation is a gift and then you suddenly change the subject to 'it's not for all' hmmm..you need to concentrate, focus on what you're saying.

When did I say salvation is a gift? If you go back to the post, I clearly mentioned it is grace that is gift and this "grace" is not for all but to those are worthy.
I know what i am posting .. it is you who is twisting even my own posts.

Matthew 11:28 - Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest - It is for all felix, but people still deny his salvation because of unbelief. It's not sin that keeps you from salvation, it's unbelief in who Jesus Christ is.

'Falls short' is not losing salvation. Felix, you're adding and taking from scripture again what you want it to say. You're better than that sir.

Yes, "falls short" is not losing salvation. Did I ever say that? "Fall short" is for grace. and without grace you are not saved.

Why did you stop at verse 28? Not interest in what Christ says fully?

(Matthew 11:28-30) "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

How is that you want only rest from Him yet not interested in taking His yoke?

 

[Guest]

(Romans 10:9) If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Yes, will be as in minutes/hours after you confess and believe. You have to wait for God to come felix!!! Why are you so obsessed with the future? You admit we have to obtain grace so where in your head of yours, does this grace occur? Are you admitting that you are preaching to me without the grace of God inside of you, NOW as you speak??

Why did you stop at verse 28? Not interest in what Christ says fully?

Why did I stop at verse 28?? Are you serious man, have you forgotten what you said..

Yes, grace is a gift from God. But you totally forgot that this free grace is not for all.

Why did you say it's not for all when in fact it is? Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden.

It is for all felix, but people still deny his salvation because of unbelief. It's not sin that keeps you from salvation, it's unbelief in who Jesus Christ is.

Read carefully ^^

 

[Guest]

When did I say salvation is a gift? If you go back to the post, I clearly mentioned it is grace that is gift and this "grace" is not for all but to those are worthy. I know what i am posting .. it is you who is twisting even my own posts.

Ok, so you admit that grace is a gift. If grace is a gift then why wouldn't it be a part of salvation. The definition of salvation is the act of saving. So where and who is this action coming from?????????? Why would God send his grace to you without saving you??? That's absurd.

 

[felix]

Ok, so you admit that grace is a gift. If grace is a gift then why wouldn't it be a part of salvation. The definition of salvation is the act of saving. So where and who is this action coming from?????????? Why would God send his grace to you without saving you??? That's absurd.

because, it is not only grace but even Salvation which is through this grace is only to those who obey Him.

(Hebrews 5:9) And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

 

[felix]

Yes, will be as in minutes/hours after you confess and believe. You have to wait for God to come felix!!! Why are you so obsessed with the future? You admit we have to obtain grace so where in your head of yours, does this grace occur? Are you admitting that you are preaching to me without the grace of God inside of you, NOW as you speak??

Can you say how many minutes or hours in future we will be saved after we confess and believe?

Why did I stop at verse 28?? Are you serious man, have you forgotten what you said..

Yes, you missed: Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
How can you find rest without taking His yoke?

Why did you say it's not for all when in fact it is? Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden.

Yes, the invitation is for all but only those who take His yoke will find rest.

Haven't you read His parables? which summarizes...
(Matthew 22:14) "For many are called, but few [are] chosen."

Read carefully ^^

yes I read extremely careful to understand that your statement completely contradicts Bible.

• (Romans 6:16) Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin [leading] to death, or of obedience [leading] to righteousness?
• (Romans 6:23) For the wages of sin [is] death, but the gift of God [is] eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
• (James 1:15) Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
• (James 5:19-20) Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

 

[Mitspa]

Does this have anything to do with the posts that I asked you? I already mentioned that following law of Moses after the new covenant is abomination to God. I also showed you the difference from Christ's own words from sermon on the mount.

How is that, when I ask for explanation for what Paul and Peter who mentioned Salvation as future event, you never seem to address that. You also haven't replied for the post that Eternal life is hidden in Christ and never given to anyone. Instead, you reply everything except the point.

So now following the law of Moses is an "abomination" but only a few post ago you were attempting to use the law to "unsave" others. Now you and I and anyone who has been keeping up with this thread, knows you have done this. You also reject or are ignorant of the love of God, given to the believer.
You seem to enjoy when those who lied to the Holy Spirit were judged for their lie. I tell you that you have come into the assemble of Gods people, and are doing the same thing. Part of my calling is to bring judgment against deceiving spirits and false teachers, I would warn you to find another hobby or other interest, because you are bringing judgment against your own soul by playing these word games and intruding into the things of The Almighty.

 

[Mitspa]

• (Romans 6:16) Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin [leading] to death, or of obedience [leading] to righteousness?
• (Romans 6:23) For the wages of sin [is] death, but the gift of God [is] eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
• (James 1:15) Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
• (James 5:19-20) Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

What is sin and where does its strength come from?
What is the power over sin?
Sin is in the flesh and the law produces sinful desires.
Grace overcomes sin, ONLY GRACE!

So the only answer to sin is grace.
So to teach others about sin abd have no understanding of its source or strength, or the source and power over sin given freely to us by grace, is just religious nonsense!

Its like given a blind man a eye test, of course the blind man cannot never pass the test.
"Awake to righteousness and sin not" Means the issue of sin cannot be discussed apart from the truth of the gospel.
But felix seems to deny even that God has even given us the ability to see.

It is amazing how one can be ignorant of certain scripture such as "Gods Love being sheds abroad in the heart" and yet have these endless list of scripture "out of context" that always bring up the issue of sin and used in a way to cast doubt upon salvation. This is a trained "false teacher" not some innocent ignorant guy trying to learn about God.

So felix you have said "now" that we are not under the law.
So what is this "sin" in these scriptures you are using?

What law is being transgressed in order for the scripture to call it "sin"

 

[Deborah13]

(Romans 10:9) If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

will
Expressing the future tense: "you will regret it later".
Intend, desire, or wish (something) to happen: "he was doing what the saint willed"

shall
(in the first person) Expressing the future tense: "this time next week I shall be in Scotland".
Expressing a strong assertion or intention: "they shall succeed".

(I suggest you had to learn English grammar).

The verb or "the action of getting saved" used in Romans 10:9 is not in present tense but future.

You are correct in your grammar that it is future tense but why is it future tense?

What does it say, the very first word in this verse is IF.

So this scripture is speaking to the hearer who has NOT accepted Jesus as Savior and Lord
.
It is saying IF you will do this you will be saved.

So...Romans 10:9

IF you declare with your mouth, "Jesus in Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

[Guest]

because, it is not only grace but even Salvation which is through this grace is only to those who obey Him.

(Hebrews 5:9) And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

Wow, ok so you changed your mind again? You believe salvation is a part of grace now? Good, ok but how does a sinner know to obey without a transformation taking place?

Can you say how many minutes or hours in future we will be saved after we confess and believe?

For me it was no more than an hour, every testimony is different. God is the one that's in control felix, Christianity 101.

Yes, you missed: Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
How can you find rest without taking His yoke?

Yes, the invitation is for all but only those who take His yoke will find rest.

Do you know that you change the subject a lot when you're nervous. I thought you were a man of obedience? Soo you changed your mind again, you know believe the invitation is for all. Why do you keep contradicting yourself?? Anyways, you now ask 'how can you find rest without taking his yoke?' Felix, this is Christianity 101 man, taking his yoke IS ACCEPTING HIS SALVATION! Remember when we talked about how people still deny his salvation because of their unbelief in who Jesus Christ is? Who is Jesus to you felix? When we accept his salvation/yoke, we receive rest inside his yoke! I would listen to Mitspa also before you get into trouble with the Lord, felix. Are you sure you're not in obedience to false gods?

Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[felix]

So now following the law of Moses is an "abomination" but only a few post ago you were attempting to use the law to "unsave" others. Now you and I and anyone who has been keeping up with this thread, knows you have done this. You also reject or are ignorant of the love of God, given to the believer.
You seem to enjoy when those who lied to the Holy Spirit were judged for their lie. I tell you that you have come into the assemble of Gods people, and are doing the same thing. Part of my calling is to bring judgment against deceiving spirits and false teachers, I would warn you to find another hobby or other interest, because you are bringing judgment against your own soul by playing these word games and intruding into the things of The Almighty.

Since you say I have used law, please let me know where I had used the law or how it is related to the law.

Sent from Mobile.

 

[felix]

I am done guys. As the bible says, do not throw what is holy before swine. I don't mean any of you as swine but since you seem to tamper the holiness God requires in you I will no longer throw the requirement of holiness to you.

Some people want to be blind and I can't show them the way.

Just remember want Jesus said: I never knew you, you who practise lawlessness.

Sent from Mobile.

 

[Deborah13]

Since you say I have used law, please let me know where I had used the law or how it is related to the law.

Sent from Mobile.

Felix, don't you remember when you gave me five scriptures and I showed you were each one was in the Law of Moses?
Then you said that the works that James is talking about is not Law but good deeds so I asked you to give me some deeds that you think one must do? And I told you that I would be able to show you each good deed is indeed in the Law of Moses.
God covered every bit of man's behaviors in the Law. You cannot come up with one good deed that God did not instruct the Israelites in by Mose's Law. God is righteous, if it's not there it's foreign from God, He made sure they had everything they needed to be righteous, except the Messiah.

 

[reba]

I am done guys. As the bible says, do not throw what is holy before swine. I don't mean any of you as swine but since you seem to tamper the holiness God requires in you I will no longer throw the requirement of holiness to you.

Some people want to be blind and I can't show them the way.

Just remember want Jesus said: I never knew you, you who practise lawlessness.

Sent from Mobile.

It is not a good idea to call your brothers and sisters in the Lord swine...

 

[Mitspa]

I am done guys. As the bible says, do not throw what is holy before swine. I don't mean any of you as swine but since you seem to tamper the holiness God requires in you I will no longer throw the requirement of holiness to you.

Some people want to be blind and I can't show them the way.

Just remember want Jesus said: I never knew you, you who practise lawlessness.

Sent from Mobile.

Holiness is not a product of mans religious efforts or works.
This was rejected and condemned in the pharisee, and will not be accepted before the Lord. Holiness is a fruit of the righteousness of faith. It is a product of the "HOLY "Spirit, a life seperated unto God in the Spirit.
NOT BY POWER NOR BY MIGHT BUT BY MY SPIRIT SAITH THE LORD.

to be holy as He is holy, is to be conformed into His Image as by the Spirit of the Lord. Nothing of mans efforts will be accepted only that which comes from the Spirit of Grace is holy.
Now seeing how you have changed your doctrine over and over as your errors have been exposed, I do not predict that you will seek any place of truth in the scriptures or that you will repent of your unholy ways. I live and teach a level of holiness that no man can produce or attain. For nothing good dwells in any mans flesh and by the flesh, no man can please God.
For we are those who worship God in Spirit and have no confidence in the flesh, our ability is from God, our righteousness and holiness are from God.
For He "Christ" has been made unto us wisdom, righteousness and holiness, and as He is so are we in this world.

 

[felix]

Felix, don't you remember when you gave me five scriptures and I showed you were each one was in the Law of Moses?

No you haven't. Actually none was in the law.

Can you show me where is love your enemy in the law?
Can you show me where is lust called adultery and the punishment for it?
Can you show me where swearing is not allowed?

Please don't lie.

 

[Deborah13]

No you haven't. Actually none was in the law.

Can you show me where is love your enemy in the law?
Can you show me where is lust called adultery and the punishment for it?
Can you show me where swearing is not allowed?

Please don't lie.

Re: Eternal Security of the Believer !

Originally Posted by Deborah13
The first two you know are covered in the big 10. Jesus was covering every jot and tittle of His own to say that you can't be good enough.
It's not about you it's all about Him. If you can do it, you don't need Him. Right?

Thou shall not murder.
Thou shall not commit adultry.
Thou shall not swear falsely. Lev 19:12
Do not take revenge. Lev 19:8
Love all human being that are of the convenant Lev 19:18

http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm



Nope. None is there in the law. When does hate become murder in law? When does lust in heart became adultery in law? ... and so on. When did neighbors became enemies?

So, David should have loved Goliath instead of beheading him.

Not one which Christ taught in sermon on the mount is from the law.​

When Jesus was tested by the Pharisees He told them that lust is adultry commited in the heart. So how is hating anyone murder? ....Cain hated Abel.

I don't want you to give me scripture!! I want you to tell me some good deeds (good works) that you believe we must do to have eternal life. Can you name some?
I mowing your neighbor lawn...anything at all.
Can you do this? If you don't want to I will accept that but I will certainly wonder why you won't.


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