Eternal Security or Once Saved Always Saved; Is It Scriptural?

[ezra]

Hi Reba, Yes, blaspheme can be forgiven. Blaspheme is the taking of God's name in vain by speech, writing or destroying what God has sanctified (made Holy). Saul was a blasphemer. He persecuted Jesus and His followers and even tried to get them to blaspheme God (Acts 26:9-18)...He was forgiven along with many others. The only act of blaspheme that will not be forgiven is to see the work of Christ by the Holy Spirit as a witness, but assign it to Satan...will not be forgiven...now or forever These would have to be people who know of Christ but hate Christ (Mark 3:22-30). Blaspheme in ignorance can be forgiven. But God will decide this...not man. (1 Tim. 1:12-14)
In His Mercy and Eternal Grace
Douglas Summers

not sure i agree with this Blaspheme is rejecting Christ all the way to the end

 

[ezra]

i figured this would be at least 3 pages by now

 

[Jim Parker]

Eternal Security or Once Saved Always Saved; Is It Scriptural?

Nope
Rom 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

 

[chessman]

Nope
Rom 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

Being cut off from God’s goodness does not equate to a rejection from salvation. Anymore than a father’s discipline toward a son means loss of sonship.

Paul’s already explained his position on OSAS in the opening verse and previous chapters.

Therefore I say, God did not reject His people, did He? May it never be! For I also am an Israelite, from the seed of Abraham, the tribe of Benjamin.​

Romans 11:1 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 11:1&version=DLNT

But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”, that is, the word of faith which we are proclaiming, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and you believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.​

Romans 10:8-9 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 10:8-9&version=DLNT

Verse 11 then tells his saved Gentile readers to consider God’s conditional goodness and severity toward HIS people (it does not ask us to consider His salvation and rejection from salvation).

If the OP was about whether or not God, the Father, is never severe toward His children even during times of their trespassing, this verse would be applicable. But as it stands, it’s 100% compatible with OSAS. As all verses are.

 

[JLB]

As long as we remain in the body of Christ we are saved, now the question is can we be ejected form that security in Christ and be lost. Let’s let Jesus the Christ answer that most important once and for all:

“I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.” [Rev 3:15-16]

Amen.

The Lord will lovingly deal with those of us, who are living carnal Luke warm lives, in order to stir us up, that we would return to our first love.

He also would call those of us, who have strayed from Him, to repent and return to Him, lest we would be lost for eternity.


Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. Revelation 2:5

again


And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,

‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Revelation 3:1


I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.


Like the prodigal son who strayed from his father to pursue his carnal desires, the Lord is calling us to return and be restored back to Him.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Being cut off from God’s goodness does not equate to a rejection from salvation. Anymore than a father’s discipline toward a son means loss of sonship.

Being cut off is a reference to being severed from Covenant relationship as a man divorces the wife who is unfaithful to him.

The context is clear and deals with those who were cut off because of unbelief, which is disobedience to the Covenant stipulations.


19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
Romans 11:19-22


JLB

 

[civilwarbuff]

Eternal Security or Once Saved Always Saved; Is It Scriptural?

What does it mean to be saved? It means its in Christ that we live move and have our being, its in the body of Christ that we live, once ejected from that body there is no longer life, but death. As long as we remain in the body of Christ we are saved, now the question is can we be ejected form that security in Christ and be lost. Let’s let Jesus the Christ answer that most important once and for all:

“I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.” [Rev 3:15-16]

The people the Lord is sending this warning to are not pagans and unbelievers, but the saved, those in His body. These people are secured, they are saved, there is no more secured place then in the body of Christ. But look at the warning the Lord sends to the now saved. Jesus said He will spue them out of their once secured place of salvation. Though they were once saved, they can lose that salvation. What the false doctrine of once saved always is, is a license to live in sin.

That’s my take on it; what’s yours?

To the Church in Laodicea
Rev 3:14 “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.
Rev 3:15 “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot!
Rev 3:16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.
Rev 3:18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.
Rev 3:19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.
Rev 3:22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”
This is not about believers losing their salvation. This comes across as those who go to church, make their tithe, sit on the church board, go through the motions of being a Christian but have, at best, only an intellectual 'love' for God not the humbled heart he demands. Those that think being good, along with their works, will get them into heaven in the end.
Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.

 

[JLB]

To the Church in Laodicea
Rev 3:14 “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.
Rev 3:15 “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot!
Rev 3:16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.
Rev 3:18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.
Rev 3:19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.
Rev 3:22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”
This is not about believers losing their salvation. This comes across as those who go to church, make their tithe, sit on the church board, go through the motions of being a Christian but have, at best, only an intellectual 'love' for God not the humbled heart he demands. Those that think being good, along with their works, will get them into heaven in the end.
Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.

What’s your point?

 

[chessman]

Being cut off is a reference to being severed from Covenant relationship as a man divorces the wife who is unfaithful to him.

The context is about breaking natural branches (Israel) and grafting into the well rooted fat tree a wild olive branch (a Gentile) so that the wild branch will be nourished by the well established root system of the natural tree. Nothing about divorce here. A co-partner with the Root! Now that’s a holy branch.

Now if some of the branches were broken-off and you, being a wild-olive-tree, were grafted-in among them and became a co-partner of the root, of the fatness of the olive tree, do not be vaunting over the branches. But if you vaunt, [remember] you are not carrying the root, but the root you.​

Romans 11:17-18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 11:17-18&version=DLNT

 

[JLB]

How refreshing. A topic never discussed before.

Source:John 3:16"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 4:10 Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water."

Romans 5:15 "But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many."

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Romans 8:32 "He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?"

2 Corinthians 9:15 "Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift!

Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;"

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Numbers 23:19
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

“As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.”- Romans 11:28-29


Eternal security is found in our being eternally saved by faith through the sacrifice of Christ Jesus.

No such thing as being eternally saved by faith.

We are saved by faith now, in this life, in which we will receive that salvation as an end result of our faith, when He comes.

While we have faith, we don’t actually have the thing we are hoping for.

To hope for something means you don’t actually have it.

Faith is the substance of the thing you are hoping for; the evidence of things not seen.


so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

• He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

again


7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:7-9

• receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls

When we receive the object of our faith, we no longer have faith for that thing we are hoping for but have received the tangible reality of it.


JLB

 

[JLB]

The context is about breaking natural branches (Israel) and grafting into the well rooted fat tree a wild olive branch (a Gentile) so that the wild branch will be nourished by the well established root system of the natural tree. Nothing about divorce here. A co-partner with the Root! Now that’s a holy branch.

Now if some of the branches were broken-off and you, being a wild-olive-tree, were grafted-in among them and became a co-partner of the root, of the fatness of the olive tree, do not be vaunting over the branches. But if you vaunt, [remember] you are not carrying the root, but the root you.​

Romans 11:17-18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 11:17-18&version=DLNT

We all see the context.

Removing those who have fallen into unbelief from Him.

That’s the context.

Those who have been removed can indeed be grafted back in, “if” the do not continue in unbelief.



JLB

 

[JLB]

So, the context for blaspheme not being forgivable is when it is directed at the Holy Spirit.

Exactly, which makes OSAS unbiblical.

 

[JLB]

iow, this cannot occur today, since Jesus isn't in the flesh driving out demons today.

Does the Holy Spirit still operate through people today, to heal people and drives out demons?

 

[JLB]

Hi Reba, Yes, blaspheme can be forgiven. Blaspheme is the taking of God's name in vain by speech, writing or destroying what God has sanctified (made Holy). Saul was a blasphemer. He persecuted Jesus and His followers and even tried to get them to blaspheme God (Acts 26:9-18)...He was forgiven along with many others. The only act of blaspheme that will not be forgiven is to see the work of Christ by the Holy Spirit as a witness, but assign it to Satan...will not be forgiven...now or forever These would have to be people who know of Christ but hate Christ (Mark 3:22-30). Blaspheme in ignorance can be forgiven. But God will decide this...not man. (1 Tim. 1:12-14)
In His Mercy and Eternal Grace
Douglas Summers

Is blaspheme of the Holy Spirit forgivable?

 

[civilwarbuff]

What’s your point?

The point is that the scripture quoted in the OP has nothing to do with OSAS.......It was directed at a church who appeared christian on the outside but was dead inside. It does not say that it had fallen away, as a matter of fact does not even mention salvation.

 

[chessman]

We all see the context.

Right, zilch about a man divorcing his wife in this context. Yet... that was your point.

Removing those who have fallen into unbelief from Him.

Please quote and underline “fallen into unbelief”. It’s nowhere to be found in this context, just like divorce isn’t.

It is well said that unbelievers can continue in their unbelief (just as the High Priests were) and be broken off by their unbelief, not ‘fall into it’.

Well said! They were broken off by their unbelief, and you stand by your faith. Do not be thinking lofty things , but be fearing —​

Romans 11:20 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 11:20&version=DLNT

But those ones also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted-in. For God is able to graft them in again.​

Romans 11:23 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 11:23&version=DLNT

No passage in the Bible speaks of ‘falling into unbelief’ for the word itself means a non-believer, not ex-believer.

Paul knew and believed Jesus meant what He said; “NEVER”

And then I will declare to them that ‘I never knew you. Depart from Me, ones working lawlessness’.​

Matthew 7:23 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 7:23&version=DLNT

Which is why Paul taught eternal comfort for those whom He’s loved.

And may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, the One having loved us and having given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, comfort your hearts and establish you in every good work and word.​

2 Thessalonians 2:16-17 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=2 Thessalonians 2:16-17&version=DLNT

 

[JLB]

Please quote and underline “fallen into unbelief”. It’s nowhere to be found in this context, just like divorce isn’t.

20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
Romans 11:20-22

Fell into Unbelief

They were cut off, severed, removed.


JLB

 

[JLB]

The point is that the scripture quoted in the OP has nothing to do with OSAS.

The Name of this thread is: OSAS is it scriptural.

The answer is a resounding NO!

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The Name of this thread is: OSAS is it scriptural.

The answer is a resounding NO!

Depends on how you look at it.
Depends on your attitude.
Your attitude is not positive, it is negative.
So of course you believe you can lose your salvation.
You take a hard line on the laws of Scripture, and there's no room for error or you go to hell.
I believe though Scripture tells us what is right and what is wrong, God is a forgiving God and a loving God that we can understand.
If we truly experience God's love (an extremely powerful love it is), then we could not possibly ever want to walk away from it.
OSAS

 

[JLB]

Depends on how you look at it.
Depends on your attitude.

The truth of God’s words does not depend on our perspective or attitude or emotional state or anything else.

God’s word is the truth all by itself.