Dirtfarmer said......"Demons don't believe that JESUS is the Son of God, they know for sure, because they have been confronted by him and ask if he had come to torment them before their time. "
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Every spiritual blessing
- Thread starter Winnie
- Start date
Dirtfarmer said......"Demons don't believe that JESUS is the Son of God, they know for sure, because they have been confronted by him and ask if he had come to torment them before their time. "
This is KEY. [edited. Take a breath, relax, and nice.]
“Whosoever believes in me will not perish, but have everlasting life.” Jn 3:15
“For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life.” Jn 3:16
“He that believes on him is not condemned, but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” Jn 3:18
“He that believes the Son has everlasting life, and he that believes not the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” Jn 3:36
“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one that which sees the Son, and believes on him, will have everlasting life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”Jn 6:40
“Truly I say unto you, he that believes on me, has everlasting life.” Jn 6:47
John 16:9~~New American Standard Bible
concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;
Last edited by a moderator:
Exactly! They know, or believe, from experience. It's amazing how much James 2:19 has been abused by such misunderstanding.
Once something is experienced, the person who experienced it believes the experience. Faith is not in the equation.
It is an error to mention "faith of demons" in regard to James 2:19, since faith isn't the issue. Or anywhere else that demons spoke accurately about Jesus to Him. They have experienced who He is, way before humanity was created. (but that's another thread).
When I read James 2:19 I'm seeing that he is showing how the demons do in fact believe who Jesus is but they don't believe in Him or put their faith and trust in Him. In other words they do not follow Him and do not accept Him as Lord over them.
James 2:19 - You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
In the first sentence, James address monotheism, that "there is one God". That's all. Nothing about Jesus.
In the second sentence, James notes that "even the demons devlieve that". What? That "there is one God". That's what they believe.
But, they don't believe that from faith, as we do. They believe it because they lived with God after they were created, until the rebellion when they joined with satan.
James 2:19 isn't the verse that shows that demons know who Jesus is. Those verses are found within the gospels where Jesus encountered demon possessed people and communicated with the demons.
What matters is exactly what they believe. It seems Jesus' point about "becoming as one of these little children" was a reference to what we call "child-like faith". iow, accepting the gospel without reservation.
Jesus is God.
“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me." John 14:1 NKJV
But permit me to rephrase my comment.
When I read James 2:19 I'm seeing that he is showing how the demons do in fact believe who God is but they don't believe in Him or put their faith and trust in Him. In other words they do not follow Him and do not accept Him as Lord over them.
Faith is a belief in something one cannot see. We have little choice but to rely on faith until we physically meet Him face to face. Faith is a spiritual blessing given to us by God. I thank God for that!
dirtfarmer
Member
hello WIP, dirtfarmer here
The angels have no salvation. They either serve and worship God, which they were created to do, or they follow the devil. Which is what about 1/3 of them did that rebelled with Lucifer, when he tried to ascend above God and become ruler of all of God's creation.
Jesus was made lower than the angels for the purpose to suffer "DEATH" for mankind, so that man could be restored to a relationship with God. There is no salvation for fallen angels, as far as scripture is concerned.
We have a lifetime to accept God's provision for our salvation. After physical death our destination is set, when God brings his creation to an end as far as a life of flesh and blood.
The subject of v.19 is about monotheism, which all Jews believed, from faith. Even demons "believe that", but they believe that because they have actually experienced it.
Exactly! But one can believe in something they have experienced, like touching a hot stove. That belief is based on experience, not faith.
Actually, no choice.
billybalke
Member
billybalke
Member
Allow me to return to post 17. You were asked the question if the word "believe" included repentance. Your answer was ''NO, IT IS NOT INCLUDED IN 'BELIEVE', TO BELIEVE IS TO ACCEPT AS TRUE. TO REPENT IS TO CHANGE THE MIND''.
If I understand your doctrine all one must do is believe, and eternal life is given the believer. Yet Jesus said: "I tell you , nay: but except you repent, ye shall all likewise perish" Lk.13:3. It is obvious that more is required than belief to be saved and have eternal life. AND, if repentance is allowed in addition to belief, WHAT ELSE??
Other matters have detained me from being on this forum of late, but I shall have more later.
I think it appropriate to add one other word to my signature phrase, please note below.
TO BE DEEP IN SCRIPTURE IS TO CEASE BEING CATHOLIC, PROTESTANT, JEW AND CALVINIST
ROM. 16:16
God bless, Billy
My views come straight from Scripture. Have you researched the Greek meaning of the 2 words?
Luke 8:12 - Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.
John 3:15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.” 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
Acts 16:31 - They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
1 John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
Is this your single proof text? Let's be clear. In order to come to faith in Christ, one MUST repent. Or change their mind, about a lot of things.
Please don't confuse me with Calvinism. I'm neither Calvinist or Arminian.
I believe that it is possible for God to make himself fully known to us in such a way that we don't have to rely on faith but can experience Him directly and absolutely if He so chooses and that is why I said we have little choice rather than no choice. Just to clarify my position.
dirtfarmer
Member
'And also the demons believe and shutter.
Well since this is my op, and it's diverted, I'm going to say what I think.
It seems the writer was just trying to prove a simple point by saying you can't have faith and do nothing, and be saved. Works is linked to faith. A fruit of it so to speak. So he was just saying you can't say 'oh I believe God is one, yada yada yada' and bear no fruit. So to drive his point home, he mentioned the demons believing too.
I think that verse is being over analyzed in this argument.
Well since this is my op, and it's diverted, I'm going to say what I think.
It seems the writer was just trying to prove a simple point by saying you can't have faith and do nothing, and be saved. Works is linked to faith. A fruit of it so to speak. So he was just saying you can't say 'oh I believe God is one, yada yada yada' and bear no fruit. So to drive his point home, he mentioned the demons believing too.
I think that verse is being over analyzed in this argument.
billybalke
Member
Thanks for the confession that its not by faith only but faith plus repentance. NOW, what else must one do? What about the confession that Jesus is the Christ? Matt.10:32; Acts 8:37, 38.
You may not claim to be a Calvinist but you defend their belief.
NO what I've presented is not my only proof text. HERE IS MY CHALLENGE TO YOU: LETS DISCUSS THIS ON THE ONE ON ONE AND YOU WILL SEE MORE. WILL YOU MEET THE CHALLENGE???
TO BE DEEP IN SCRIPTURE IS TO CEASE BEING PROTESTANT, CATHOLIC, JEW AND CALVINIST
ROM. 16:16
Respectfully, Billy
It seems your view missed the point completely. The subject of what was believed was that "God is One", which is monotheism, a particularly Jewish view. Greeks acknowledged many gods, and views the Jews as being rather "narrow minded".'And also the demons believe and shutter.
Well since this is my op, and it's diverted, I'm going to say what I think.
It seems the writer was just trying to prove a simple point by saying you can't have faith and do nothing, and be saved. Works is linked to faith. A fruit of it so to speak. So he was just saying you can't say 'oh I believe God is one, yada yada yada' and bear no fruit. So to drive his point home, he mentioned the demons believing too.
I think that verse is being over analyzed in this argument.
So James' point was that just because his audience was Jewish (they believed in One God), he pointed out that even demons believe that.
iow, so what? So what that you guys are orthodox Jewish believers. Even demons believe that God is One.
The verse has no connection to saving faith at all. The verse is overused and abused when used in that way.