Bible Study FAITH, And the Knowledge of God's Righteousness

[ezrider]

Romans 10:1-3
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

This scripture from the book of Romans will set foundation for this study. It identifies two groups of people. Those who have a zeal for God according to their own knowledge of the law, and they go about to establish their own righteousness by submitting to the law of sin. But Paul goes on to say that their zeal is not according to knowledge of the truth, because they are ignorant of the Righteousness of God. The second group of people are those who have submitted themselves to the righteousness of God.

So how does someone begin to submit themselves to finding and understanding the knowledge of the righteousness of God, instead of submitting themselves to the knowledge of the law and sin? Romans 1:17 tells us how: by faith.


Romans 1:17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The knowledge of the righteousness of God can ONLY be revealed through FAITH. The knowledge of the righteousness of God will never be revealed through the knowledge of sin. But his coming and his works were proclaimed in the law and the prophets. The just shall live by faith.


Habakkuk 2:4
Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him:
but the just shall live by his faith.

Behold the soul which is lifted up is not upright in him. How is his soul lifted up? Well it surely can not be by the means of faith. So the soul that is lifted up is done so by the means of the knowledge of the law of sin that he posses for himself, and in doing so his soul is not upright in him, because he has set out to establish his own righteousness, and has not submitted himself to the righteousness of God, that can only be revealed through faith.


Jeremiah 4:22
For my people is foolish, they have not known me;
they are sottish children, and they have none understanding:
they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

My people are foolish, they have not known me, they are stupid children, and they have no understanding: they are WISE TO DO EVIL, but to do good they have no knowledge. They have no knowledge of the righteousness of God, they are ignorant of it. But they are wise to do evil, because they posses the knowledge of the law of sin; but with that, they have no understanding.


Romans 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

The knowledge of the law reveals sin. Faith reveals the righteousness of God. The knowledge of the law reveals that which is evil. Faith teaches us how to do that which is good in the face of evil.

So as we move forward, lets keep in mind these two groups of people. The first group we shall call the “knowledge seekers” and the second group we shall call the “faith walkers”. How do the faith walkers submit themselves to the righteousness of God in Christ? Why are the knowledge seekers overcome with evil?


Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Jeremiah 23:5-6
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, the Lord our Righteousness.


The Lord our Righteousness, revealed in the person of Jesus Christ.

 

[ezrider]

As we each are searching for the knowledge, wisdom and understanding that comes from the word of God, it is very important to keep to this scripture in mind.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

This is a warning to the knowledge seekers, the seekers of the knowledge of evil, the seekers of the knowledge of sin. To whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, of the same you will be overcome. If you seek the knowledge of sin, then in your heart you have chosen to serve sin unto death. But if you walk by Faith, then in your heart you have begun yielding yourself to the righteousness of Christ.

2 Peter 2:19
While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

You can not seek both the knowledge of evil and sin and the knowledge of the righteousness of God in Christ at the same time. You can not serve two masters. You must chose whether your hearts desire for the knowledge of the righteousness of the Lord that is revealed only through Faith is greater than your hearts desire for the knowledge of good and evil. The pursuit of the knowledge of good and evil will keep you blinded to the the righteousness of Christ and the Glory of the Lord.


Romans 6:16-19
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.


For whatsoever is not of faith, is sin.

 

[ezrider]

So how do we begin to learn to walk by faith? How do we begin to seek after the knowledge of God's righteousness? Where do we begin to seek this understanding? The Bible can be much easier to understand if we start not with the Law and the Prophets, but rather if we begin with the simple scriptural reason for the need for Jesus Christ, which does not begin with the redemption of Israel and for those under the Law, but rather for the redemption of Adam's transgression.

Romans 5:12-19
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

By one man sin entered the world, and death by sin. So if we are to understand and walk by the faith of Jesus, the second man Adam, then we do not need to begin by trying to understand Moses and the ten commandment to seek the knowledge of God's Righteousness, but we should start by looking at the original sin: the transgression of Adam. What was the transgression of Adam? What happened to Adam after his transgression. Understanding what happened in the garden will lay the foundation for how we should begin to see and understand the Law of Moses, and for how we might better understand our walk by Faith.

 

[ezrider]

Adam was created a Son of God and was given dominion over the earth. He was given only but one commandment from God. Adam was instructed that of all the trees of the garden he could eat freely, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that was in the midst of the garden Adam was commanded not to eat.

Genesis 2:15-17
And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

This was the commandment given to Adam, the commandment that he transgressed, and its transgression came with the assurance of the penalty of death.

Now before we continue to look at Adam, there is something that we should consider first. Adam was created in the image of God. Adam was created in weakness. Adam was created with the ability to do good and evil. Adam was created to walk with the Lord in Faith. What Adam did not possess for himself was the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil. Adam was created to walk according to faith, not by the knowledge of good and evil, and he was explicitly commanded NOT to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, or he shall surely die. But we find that tree of the knowledge of good and evil provides something more than the assurance of death.

Genesis 3:3-6
But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Now we find in this passage that the serpent lied. The serpent lied in saying that you shall not surely die, which stood in direct opposition to the assurance that God spoke to Adam. But the rest of what the serpent said was not a lie. The serpent told them that their eyes would be opened, and they shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. As a result of eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they discovered that is was good for food, pleasant to the eyes, a tree to be desired to make one wise. The Lord then confirms that Adam has become like unto us, unto God, knowing good and evil.

Genesis 3:18
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

So the first thing we should understand is when someone eats the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is that their eyes become opened to the knowledge of good and evil, their eyes become open to the knowledge of sin, resulting in the temptation thinking themselves to be gods. But there is more to this tree of the knowledge of good and evil than just the simple knowledge of good and evil, there is also what this knowledge causes you to do in the face of the knowledge of the commandment unto death. The assurance of the commandment unto death causes one to hide from the Lord and to seek a covering to from that death.

Genesis 3:7-12
And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden. And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself. And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

Because Adam had eaten the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, his eyes were open to the knowledge of sin and death, and he knew that he was naked. But the tree of the knowledge of good and evil imparted other knowledge to Adam other than just the knowledge of good and evil, it also cause Adam to seek a covering for himself because of the knowledge of death, and it caused Adam to hide from the presence of the Lord.

Adam was created perfect in his ways to walk according to Faith before the Lord. Adam was created with the capability of doing good and evil, what he was NOT created with was the knowledge of good and evil. He took that for himself. The knowledge of good and evil opens our eyes to sin, but blinds us to the righteousness of God that can only be revealed through Faith. The knowledge of good and evil causes one to think of themselves as a god, judging between good and evil, trying to attain unto their own righteousness, yet blinded to the knowledge of God's righteousness that comes only by faith; hiding under the covering suggested, hoping for salvation in the face of death.

 

[smaller]

There is little ambiguity over the facts of scriptures regarding "evil" and "indwelling sin" being non-cooperative with Gods Words and the Gospel.

The scriptures regarding these matters are not put there to be overlooked and passed by without accounting. Just because we don't look doesn't mean they aren't there to see.

Paul for example in Romans 7 (among other scriptures likewise) goes to great lengths describing how indwelling sin and evil present with him creates "warring" in his own mind/members.

I might think there are legitimate reasons for the scriptural disclosures and little to no legitimate reasons to ignore these scriptural reality presentations:

Romans 7:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

We might claim that if we don't look, it's not there to see. But that doesn't mean the factual warring didn't take out the person not looking, as that is probably exactly part of the intent of the warring faction.

DON'T LOOK at what Paul stated and it won't happen to really isn't in the cards.

On a note of AGREEMENT, I might observe it is essentially impossible for anyone with indwelling sin and evil present with them to claim these things are legally obedient or cooperative/cooperating with the Gospel or Gods Words in general. Any claims of legalists obeying in and of themselves in the external senses are automatically voided by the internal reality of the adverse workings of indwelling sin and evil present with us. Earning our own salvation by "self" works isn't even in the cards of legitimacy. Romans 7:17-21. Even if we DON'T LOOK at Romans 7, the facts remain facts.

Equally VAIN however is to try to paint any pictures of ourselves that makes these same workings to be "under Grace" or the beneficiaries of "Divine Mercy" as that won't be a happening deal either.

Paul DOES present that we have VILE bodies, and they are so because of the quite active facts Paul presents in Romans 7 and in other places, showing the flesh is very much in an active state of contrariness to the Spirit and against the Spirit, and vice versa, that the Spirit is also ACTIVELY against and contrary to the flesh. Gal. 5:17.

Whether we observe the scriptural facts or not doesn't change them.

They remain facts. It is actually the essence of our HOPE in the Gospel, to DITCH the workings of evil present with us and sin indwelling our flesh by the Power of God in Christ to put DOWN these powers, permanently, and to CHANGE US. Phil. 3:21.

We might claim we don't need this change, but I would suggest that is the basis of the HOPE of the Gospel.

 

[Jim Parker]

Those who have a zeal for God according to their own knowledge of the law, and they go about to establish their own righteousness by submitting to the law of sin.

That would be the Law of Moses, not the "law of sin."


iakov the fool

 

[ezrider]

That would be the Law of Moses, not the "law of sin."


iakov the fool

Thank you for that contribution to this thread. It's a wonderful example of straining at a gnat. Shall we sing a song of semantics?

The Law of Moses is the law of sin, whether you accept it or not. Paul referred to it as the law of sin and death (Rom 8:2).
And the prophets called it a covenant with death (Isaiah 28:18).

Law of Moses, Old Covenant, Covenant with Moses, Covenant with Death, Law of Sin and Death, Law of Sin; Knowledge of Sin and Death, Knowledge of Good and Evil, The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. All pretty much the same in thought and in Spirit.

So while you may not like my calling the Law of Moses the law of sin, I am at liberty to choose to phrase the words I wish to convey my thoughts. If I quote the scripture, then I note it as such. But when you start to make such distinctions in the words that I have chosen to convey my thoughts, then that is an indication to me that you are not interested in listening to the spirit of thought, but are still in bondage to the letters of words, whether they be my words, or the words of scriptures.

2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

 

[ezrider]

Because Adam had eaten the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, his eyes were open to the knowledge of sin and death, and he knew that he was naked. But the tree of the knowledge of good and evil imparted other knowledge to Adam other than just the knowledge of good and evil, it also cause Adam to seek a covering for himself because of the knowledge of death, and it caused Adam to hide from the presence of the Lord.

So we see in Adam the original sin, which was a sin unto death. Disobeying the commandment of God, and eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We see in Adam that the knowledge of good and evil caused him to take take unto himself a covering for his sin, and to hide from the wrath of the Lord. But, with Adam, we do know that he answered to the Lords voice when he called.

So how does what happened in the garden with Adam and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil relate to the law of Moses.

Romans 5:12-17
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Paul established the connection here between the law and Adam's sin. Because of Adam's transgression, death was unleashed on the world. The scripture instructs us here that DEATH reigned from Adam to Moses. We are also instructed here by Paul that sin is not imputed were there is NO LAW. So from Adam to Moses, sin was in the world, but was not imputed unto them. Death reigned from Adam to Moses, but had no power, no strength, it had no sting. But the law, the strength of sin is in the law.

1 Corinthians 15:55-57
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[GodsGrace]

That would be the Law of Moses, not the "law of sin."


iakov the fool

Jim
I can understand why EZ uses the phrase "law of sin".

Moses was given the Law.
We can say that it was given to teach man how to live in a proper manner.
This especially for the Hebrews who had been enslaved for many generations.
After a period of about 400 years, it's easy to forget civility.
So these laws were necessary.

But they also caused death.
Before the law, man did not know he was sinning, after the Law, man knew when he sinned and this sin brought about spiritual death.

There was no strength supplied to follow the Mosaic Covenant. Man could depend only on his own will power.

In the New Covenant, or the Law of Grace , we are still required to follow the Law but it is no longer of sin because Jesus has fulfilled the Law.

Wondering

 

[smaller]

The "law of sin" remains an operational law.

Romans 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Whether we observe the fact of it or not won't make any difference. Just as not acknowledging the law of gravity would NOT make it irrelevant. If we ignore the law of gravity it remains in effect, just as does the law of sin.

 

[GodsGrace]

The "law of sin" remains an operational law.

Romans 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Whether we observe the fact of it or not won't make any difference. Just as not acknowledging the law of gravity would NOT make it irrelevant. If we ignore the law of gravity it remains in effect, just as does the law of sin.

It is faith that has saved man from the beginning of time.
Hebrews.
How does your faith change how you understand the Law?

Wondering

 

[smaller]

It is faith that has saved man from the beginning of time.
Hebrews.
How does your faith change how you understand the Law?

Wondering

Faith doesn't make the law of sin of no effect, as Paul demonstrates openly in Romans 7, for himself.

 

[Jim Parker]

Thank you for that contribution to this thread. It's a wonderful example of straining at a gnat. Shall we sing a song of semantics?
The Law of Moses is the law of sin,......

There is a significant difference between the Law of Moses
Rom 7:12 (NKJV) the law is holy,
Rom 7:16 (NKJV) I agree with the law that it is good.
and the law of sin.
Rom 7:21-23 (NKJV) I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:7-8 (NKJV)
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.

And, JTLYK, your sarcasm contributes absolutely nothing. Rather. it detracts from your presentation.

Mar 7:20 (NKJV) ...What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness.


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)


DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[Jim Parker]

Jim
I can understand why EZ uses the phrase "law of sin".

Moses was given the Law.
We can say that it was given to teach man how to live in a proper manner.
This especially for the Hebrews who had been enslaved for many generations.
After a period of about 400 years, it's easy to forget civility.
So these laws were necessary.

But they also caused death.
Before the law, man did not know he was sinning, after the Law, man knew when he sinned and this sin brought about spiritual death.

There was no strength supplied to follow the Mosaic Covenant. Man could depend only on his own will power.

In the New Covenant, or the Law of Grace , we are still required to follow the Law but it is no longer of sin because Jesus has fulfilled the Law.

It wasn't the Law which caused death. The wages of sin is death. (Ro 6:23) It is what man does that causes death. Man separates himself from life in God by sinning. The Law of Moses (and the prophets) spelled out for man what the Lord desired of him and it taught him that he was incapable of keeping the law and that our only hope was that God would be merciful. And He is and we have faith in God, not our ability to keep the Law.
Gal 3:24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Equating the Law of Moses with the "law of sin" is an error. The Law of Moses made us aware of sin. ( Gal 3:24) Basing a teaching on that error only produces more of the same confusion which afflicts the teacher.


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)


DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[GodsGrace]

The "law of sin" remains an operational law.

Romans 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Whether we observe the fact of it or not won't make any difference. Just as not acknowledging the law of gravity would NOT make it irrelevant. If we ignore the law of gravity it remains in effect, just as does the law of sin.

I agree.
Jesus did not abolish the Law, but He fulfilled it.
We are made righteous with God because Jesus fulfilled the Law.
Jesus fulfilled the Law and, under He protection, we are kept safe from the Law.
This does not mean that it is not to be kept, but that it cannot kill us when we break the Law.

Wondering

 

[smaller]

I agree.
Jesus did not abolish the Law, but He fulfilled it.

Common christian fallacy. The Spirit of the LAW remains to be fulfilled by us as well. Romans 13:8-12.

We are made righteous with God because Jesus fulfilled the Law.

I'd suggest that Paul advises the law is both spiritual and, as such, for "us." Romans 7:14

Jesus fulfilled the Law and, under He protection, we are kept safe from the Law.

The law has and serves several purposes. The last sight on any believers list would be to cast it aside. Believers who teach that or believe that should be ashamed.

This does not mean that it is not to be kept, but that it cannot kill us when we break the Law.

These can be long conversations. There is both active pro and con aspects to the laws.

The law of sin, which is intimately linked to the law of the O.T. is a con or negative aspect, but an aspect that is still vividly in force. And if we're paying attentions to what Paul wrote about it in Romans 7:7-13, we can even personally "test" it for validity and see, perceive the active facts, for ourselves, in real time. Just as Paul did.

 

[GodsGrace]

It wasn't the Law which caused death. The wages of sin is death. (Ro 6:23) It is what man does that causes death. Man separates himself from life in God by sinning. The Law of Moses (and the prophets) spelled out for man what the Lord desired of him and it taught him that he was incapable of keeping the law and that our only hope was that God would be merciful. And He is and we have faith in God, not our ability to keep the Law.
Gal 3:24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Equating the Law of Moses with the "law of sin" is an error. The Law of Moses made us aware of sin. ( Gal 3:24) Basing a teaching on that error only produces more of the same confusion which afflicts the teacher.


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)


DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

As EZ says in post no. 8, how can sin be imputed when there is no Law?
As you quoted, Romans 7:7-8 , "I would not have known sin except through the Law.

Also. It is not sinning that separates us from the life of God, it is our refusal to follow and serve God to the best of our ability. It is our inability to trust in Jesus.

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

Common christian fallacy. The Spirit of the LAW remains to be fulfilled by us as well. Romans 13:8-12.


I'd suggest that Paul advises the law is both spiritual and, as such, for "us." Romans 7:14


The law has and serves several purposes. The last sight on any believers list would be to cast it aside. Believers who teach that or believe that should be ashamed.


These can be long conversations. There is both active pro and con aspects to the laws.

The law of sin, which is intimately linked to the law of the O.T. is a con or negative aspect, but an aspect that is still vividly in force. And if we're paying attentions to what Paul wrote about it in Romans 7:7-13, we can even personally "test" it for validity and see, perceive the active facts, for ourselves, in real time. Just as Paul did.

You've not understood me.
I believe this is due to the fact that you read with preconceived notions and do not really consider what the writer is saying.

 

[smaller]

You've not understood me.
I believe this is due to the fact that you read with preconceived notions and do not really consider what the writer is saying.

Most believers are led to dodge and avoid the factual conclusions Paul provides about the 'law of sin' in Romans 7. (And in other places.)

The law exposes the fact of indwelling sin and evil present with us. Romans 7:17-21.
The law has full intentions, YET to be realized, to shut up every mouth and make the whole world guilty before God. Romans 3:19.

Your sight on the other hand, thinking that indwelling sin and evil present can "obey and perform" is not available. And the opening poster likes to avoid the subject entirely, preferring not to look a'tall. That we can "think our way" past the obvious by only taking the good stuff out of scriptures for ourselves and ignoring the rest.

These are not uncommon reactions. Every believer goes through the same reactions. Scriptures even show these reactions from examples past.

The law is not of faith. Gal. 3:12

But we do not cast aside the law on the basis of faith. Romans 3:31.

The bottom line on the subject is that indwelling sin and evil present with us, revealed by the 'law of sin' is not faithful, obedient, legal, under Grace, the recipient of Mercy nor can they be.

Indwelling sin and evil present with us is sprung into resisting actions to Gods Word, Work and Ways by Law. Romans 7:13, 1 Cor. 15:56. That "law" is the "law of sin."

 

[ezrider]

Equating the Law of Moses with the "law of sin" is an error.

Who told you equating the Law of Moses with the law of sin is an error? By what authority do you declare it to be in error? Have you been made the judge of our thoughts?

Seems to me that Paul did not have a problem calling it the law of sin in Rom 7:23, and again in Rom 7:25. So if it be your reasoning that I am in error, then I must assume that you believe Paul was in error too? And if Paul was in error and it is written in the scripture that way for our edification, then perhaps you are declaring that the scriptures too are in error?