Growth Faith Without Works Is Dead

[WalterandDebbie]

I think that I had mentioned before about what is Faith, Hebrews 11:1 King James Version

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Jude 1:3

Daniel 3: 14-30.

and I'm sure most of you all knows that even our Faith without the proper work is dead.

James 2:14-26.
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[dirtfarmer]

I think that I had mentioned before about what is Faith, Hebrews 11:1 King James Version

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Jude 1:3

Daniel 3: 14-30.

and I'm sure most of you all knows that even our Faith without the proper work is dead.

James 2:14-26.
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

hello Walterand Debbie, dirtafrmer here

Who's work makes faith alive? The work that we do, or the work that the Holy Spirit accomplishes through us?

 

[JLB]

hello Walterand Debbie, dirtafrmer here

Who's work makes faith alive? The work that we do, or the work that the Holy Spirit accomplishes through us?

The work of obedience that we do, as led by the Holy Spirit within us.



JLB

 

[dirtfarmer]

The work of obedience that we do, as led by the Holy Spirit within us.



JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

Colossians 2:13 " For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." God knew from the beginning, when he created Adam flesh and blood, that there had to be a change in man. We know this because of 1 Corinthians 15:50, " Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God: neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

Romans 7:18 " For I know that in me(that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not." Paul states in this verse there is nothing good in him and therefore he doesn't have the ability to do good. It is the Spirit that works good in the believer, not the believer himself.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

I agree WalterandDebbie, The way I see it, Faith and Trust are interchangeable words. It's true that if you don't trust in something you neither act on it nor depend on it. In the same way if we don't act in a way to follow God do we really trust Him, do we have faith? If we don't rely on God, do we really trust Him? Do we have faith? If we do not have deeds isn't it a sign that our faith is not strong?

 

[ezra]

works follows faith .i had this discussion yesterday with a Jehovah witness .i normally just accept there literature and move on.. he started talking about the celebration .paying a ransom for what Christ done for us . i had to ask questions. all i could manage to get out of the older gentlemen . was working for his salvation and heaven would be down here on earth. he was very well versed/ trained. but also confused

 

[JLB]

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

Romans 7:18 " For I know that in me(that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not." Paul states in this verse there is nothing good in him and therefore he doesn't have the ability to do good. It is the Spirit that works good in the believer, not the believer himself.

Isn't it great that Paul was describing his life under the law, and without Christ, since he went on to tell us the we can put to death, by the Spirit, the deeds of the flesh.

16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans 7:16-25

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit...12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Read it carefully. if you... by the Spirit, put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

• but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

The work of obedience that we do, as led, as empowered by the Holy Spirit within us.

Colossians 2:13 " For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." God knew from the beginning, when he created Adam flesh and blood, that there had to be a change in man. We know this because of 1 Corinthians 15:50, " Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God: neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

Yes it's God working in us to desire and do His good pleasure.

We perform the doing, from the inspiration, or leading, or empowering, of grace from within us.


The work of obedience that we do, as led, as empowered by the Holy Spirit within us.

That is the operation of faith.

God tells us what He wants done, and we do it.

Example:

7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7

Who built the Ark that saved Noah's household?

1. Noah
2. God
3. Satan
4. Nimrod
5. Other.

The faith that we receive when God speaks to us, is completely useless, [dead] if we don't do what the Lord tells us to do, by which we received faith.


JLB

 

[WalterandDebbie]

The work of obedience that we do, as led by the Holy Spirit within us.



JLB

JBL, and how are you? you have said well: The work of obedience that we do, as led by the Holy Spirit within us. James 2:21-24. And another thing, as we being on our christian journey, while obeying the words of Christ, that he is there to help us along the way, and still keeping his commandments.

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

 

[JLB]

JBL, you have said well: The work of obedience that we do, as led by the Holy Spirit within us. James 2:21-24. And another thing, as we being on our christian journey, while obeying the words of Christ, that he is there to help us along the way, and still keeping his commandments.

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

The "works" that James teaches concerning faith is the work of obedience.

Faith without the work of obedience is dead.

Works = The effort obedience requires.

In initial salvation, the work of obedience is confessing with our mouth, Jesus as Lord.


JLB

 

[WalterandDebbie]

hello Walterand Debbie, dirtafrmer here

Who's work makes faith alive? The work that we do, or the work that the Holy Spirit accomplishes through us?

Hello dirtfarmer, and how are you? you asked of the above question, but the way I'm going to attempt in answering is by the below story of Abraham and his Son Isaac.

The Offering of Isaac
(John 3:16-21; Romans 5:6-11)

1And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. 2And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. 3And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.

4Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off. 5And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you. 6And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together. 7And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? 8And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

9And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. 10And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

The Sacrifice Averted
11And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. 12And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. 13And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. 14And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.

15And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, 16And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: 17That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; 18And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. 19So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba.

The only thing I can see of the above is that, After Abraham obeyed God, God blessed him within what he had promised. but what do you see in the above.

 

[ezra]

The only thing I can see of the above is that, After Abraham obeyed God, God blessed him within what he had promised. but what do you see in the above.

that is basically what james is talking about using our faith/ faith works. we step out by faith to do what God through the Holy Spirit instructs us to do . we dont work to be saved or stay saved. although we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling . our salvation is kept by the power of God

 

[Winnie]

I just kinda think we can both do what the Holy Spirit is doing thru us, and there are practical things in life we can choose to do that would be pleasing to God. Like an old lady drops something in the store and your nearby, you can pick it up for her or let her do.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Hello dirtfarmer, and how are you? you asked of the above question, but the way I'm going to attempt in answering is by the below story of Abraham and his Son Isaac.

The Offering of Isaac
(John 3:16-21; Romans 5:6-11)

1And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. 2And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. 3And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.

4Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off. 5And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you. 6And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together. 7And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? 8And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

9And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. 10And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

The Sacrifice Averted
11And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. 12And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. 13And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. 14And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.

15And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, 16And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: 17That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; 18And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. 19So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba.

The only thing I can see of the above is that, After Abraham obeyed God, God blessed him within what he had promised. but what do you see in the above.

hello WalterandDebbie, dirtfarmer here

There are a couple of things that I would like to point out concerning Abraham's sacrifice of Isaac.
1. When Abraham reached Moriah he told the young men that were with him: " Abide ye here with the ass; I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again unto you." Do you think that Abraham didn't believe God when he told him that it was through Isaac that the blessings would come? Isaac was the son of promise, born unto Sarah well after her time of child bearing. Abraham had faith that since God told him to sacrifice Isaac that God would resurrect Isaac. Hence the statement:" I and the Lad will go yonder and worship and come again.

Also when Isaac stated, "behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?" What was Abraham's reply? "My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering." It is not stated, "will provide for himself", but "will provide himself a lamb." Abraham's faith was to show those that were with him his faith and God's righteousness in declaring Abraham, "the father of the faithful."

God looks on mans hearts and knows what is in it. He doesn't need an outward manifestation to prove man has faith. It is for man that the outward works of the Spirit is manifest.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

hello WalterandDebbie, dirtfarmer here

There are a couple of things that I would like to point out concerning Abraham's sacrifice of Isaac.
1. When Abraham reached Moriah he told the young men that were with him: " Abide ye here with the ass; I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again unto you." Do you think that Abraham didn't believe God when he told him that it was through Isaac that the blessings would come? Isaac was the son of promise, born unto Sarah well after her time of child bearing. Abraham had faith that since God told him to sacrifice Isaac that God would resurrect Isaac. Hence the statement:" I and the Lad will go yonder and worship and come again.

Also when Isaac stated, "behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?" What was Abraham's reply? "My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering." It is not stated, "will provide for himself", but "will provide himself a lamb." Abraham's faith was to show those that were with him his faith and God's righteousness in declaring Abraham, "the father of the faithful."

God looks on mans hearts and knows what is in it. He doesn't need an outward manifestation to prove man has faith. It is for man that the outward works of the Spirit is manifest.

Hello again dirtfarmer, You have said in the end of your statement: God looks on mans hearts and knows what is in it. He doesn't need an outward manifestation to prove man has faith. It is for man that the outward works of the Spirit is manifest.

How can that be true when in todays life as Christians that we are are being blessed just by in soo many ways, but only when he is working out his plans with us. As The Lord have did with Abraham.

And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen. Mark 16:20

 

[dirtfarmer]

Hello again dirtfarmer, You have said in the end of your statement: God looks on mans hearts and knows what is in it. He doesn't need an outward manifestation to prove man has faith. It is for man that the outward works of the Spirit is manifest.

How can that be true when in todays life as Christians that we are are being blessed just by in soo many ways, but only when he is working out his plans with us. As The Lord have did with Abraham.

And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen. Mark 16:20

hello WalterandDebbie, dirtfarmer here

I don't understand your reply in the middle paragraph. God's plan has never be thwarted.

Even today there are those that are not part of "main street" Christianity. There is one faith, not many, but we hear of the Baptist faith, the Methodist faith, or perhaps the Pentecostal faith. There may be Baptist, Methodist, or Pentecostal doctrine, but they are not the true "Body of Christ" doctrine. The body of Christ is not contained in a building with 4 walls and a roof, with a sign outside. The body of Christ is people that believe in Christ as their savior, from each of these different congregations. Scripture stated: "The just shall live by faith", not Baptist, Methodist, nor Pentecostal teachings.

As to your reference to Mark 16:20, if you look at verse 14 you will see to whom he was speaking. Also there are evidences that Mark 16:9-20 was a later addition and not part of the original manuscript.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

hello WalterandDebbie, dirtfarmer here

I don't understand your reply in the middle paragraph. God's plan has never be thwarted.

Even today there are those that are not part of "main street" Christianity. There is one faith, not many, but we hear of the Baptist faith, the Methodist faith, or perhaps the Pentecostal faith. There may be Baptist, Methodist, or Pentecostal doctrine, but they are not the true "Body of Christ" doctrine. The body of Christ is not contained in a building with 4 walls and a roof, with a sign outside. The body of Christ is people that believe in Christ as their savior, from each of these different congregations. Scripture stated: "The just shall live by faith", not Baptist, Methodist, nor Pentecostal teachings.

As to your reference to Mark 16:20, if you look at verse 14 you will see to whom he was speaking. Also there are evidences that Mark 16:9-20 was a later addition and not part of the original manuscript.

dirtfarmer, here it is again, but you seem to not look at the OP close enough, I don't see where it would be necessary to just go on and on about this issue.

 

[JLB]

our salvation is kept by the power of God

Our salvation is kept by the power of God through faith ..,

Faith must have the act of obedience or it is dead.

The salvation we are hoping for, will be received as the end result of a life of faith.


5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:5-9


JLB

 

[iLOVE]

Proper faith exclusively in Christ and Him Crucified will always produce proper works by the Holy Spirit (The Gifts of the Spirit and the Fruit of the Spirit, i.e., The Golden Bell and The Pomegranate - Exodus 28:34)

Faith without works is dead, i.e., Faith without Jesus and the Cross, i.e., The Blood of Jesus, i.e., The Finished Work, is dead - Romans 8:2. Believing is the action part of our Faith (John 20:27 NIV)

 

[dirtfarmer]

Proper faith exclusively in Christ and Him Crucified will always produce proper works by the Holy Spirit (The Gifts of the Spirit and the Fruit of the Spirit, i.e., The Golden Bell and The Pomegranate - Exodus 28:34)

Faith without works is dead, i.e., Faith without Jesus and the Cross, i.e., The Blood of Jesus, i.e., The Finished Work, is dead - Romans 8:2. Believing is the action part of our Faith (John 20:27 NIV)

hello iLOVE, dirtfarmer here

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that it is faith first and then works because of that faith. It seems as if some are trying to have the "infant Christian" preforming "adult Christian" things before they have grown in the Lord. When we look at infants we know that they are humans, but are incapable bench pressing 100 pound weight. There are even some adults that are incapable of bench pressing 100 lbs.

 

[Jim Parker]

Yes it's God working in us to desire and do His good pleasure.
We perform the doing, from the inspiration, or leading, or empowering, of grace from within us.
The work of obedience that we do, as led, as empowered by the Holy Spirit within us.
That is the operation of faith.
God tells us what He wants done, and we do it.

Just to be clear ('cause I'm not seeing it here) when we co-operate, it required a conscious decision on our part and the exertion of effort to co-operate.
It's not automatic.
We are free to refuse to obey.

Jus' sayin'

iakov the fool