Faith without works........is Faith.

[Kidron]

Faith without works is Faith.
This is because its not built on works., but its built on TRUST.
And trust, is faith.

See, the issue is "righteousness".
The issue, is, how can you become as righteous as God., as this is what He requires for you to be accepted into his family.
How do you get the Righteous from God that you need, so that you end up in heaven after you die?
Now ask yourself...
Before you were saved, or regarding any religion......you go about doing good, giving to the poor, loving the hurting, trying to live a good life, maybe even got W-baptized or took Communion for half your life.
Thats all "works".
Now, did any of that save you?
I'll ask you again.......BEFORE YOU WERE SAVED.........if you went around doing good, giving the poor, loving the hurting, trying to live a good life....(Wbaptism, Communion)..> did any of that ......do any of those WORKS save you?
Then how is it, that some falsely believe and teach that those exact same works that COULD NOT save you before you met Jesus and trusted him as Savior.......How is it that you now think that those very same works that didnt save you before you met Christ are going to keep you saved if you do them, or cause you to lose your salvation if you dont do them?

Here is how Paul explains it., and he explains it perfectly as he is the only Apostle who says that Jesus came to him an taught him the revelation of the "Grace of God".
No other apostle says this, including James, so, dont run there to argue with Paul about "works".
Thats a FAIL every time you do it.
So dont do it.

Here is Paul:

"Faith is >counted< as RIGHTEOUSNESS"""............(not works, = never works.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

New International Version
However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

New Living Translation
But people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners.

English Standard Version
And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

New American Standard Bible
But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

King James Bible
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.

International Standard Version
However, to someone who does not work, but simply believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.

NET Bible
But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous, his faith is credited as righteousness.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But to the one who does not labor, but believes only in The One who justifies sinners, is his faith accounted for righteousness.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
However, when people don't work but believe God, the one who approves ungodly people, their faith is regarded as God's approval.

Jubilee Bible 2000
But to him that does not work, but believes in him that justifies the ungodly, the faith is counted as righteousness.

King James 2000 Bible
But to him that works not, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

American King James Version
But to him that works not, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

American Standard Version
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But to him that worketh not, yet believeth in him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reputed to justice, according to the purpose of the grace of God.

Darby Bible Translation
but to him who does not work, but believes on him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.

English Revised Version
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.

Webster's Bible Translation
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Weymouth New Testament
whereas in the case of a man who pleads no actions of his own, but simply believes in Him who declares the ungodly free from guilt, his faith is placed to his credit as righteousness.

World English Bible
But to him who doesn't work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.

Young's Literal Translation
and to him who is not working, and is believing upon Him who is declaring righteous the impious, his faith is reckoned -- to righteousness:

 

[gr8grace3]

A+

 

[jeff77]

James 2:14-17New King James Version (NKJV)
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Having faith by itself does not mean anything if one does not show that they have it by the way they live their life.

 

[dianegcook]

James 2:14-17New King James Version (NKJV)
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Having faith by itself does not mean anything if one does not show that they have it by the way they live their life.

 

[gr8grace3]

James 2:14-17New King James Version (NKJV)
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Having faith by itself does not mean anything if one does not show that they have it by the way they live their life.

Amen, thank the Lord that it is not our faith that saves us and It is His Grace.

If salvation/grace was dead without works, we would all be headed to the big ole lake of fire.

 

[Kidron]

James 2:14-17New King James Version (NKJV)


Having faith by itself does not mean anything if one does not show that they have it by the way they live their life.

God counts your faith as Righteousness.
He counts your works as works.
If your good deeds could win heaven for you, then Jesus could have saved himself some trouble.
So, if you want to separate Salvation from Discipleship, then that is fine.....as one is something that God does for you for free, when you BELIEVE THE GOSPEL, that saves you, and the other is what you should do, as a disciple, subsequent to your being "born again".
However, being a disciple has nothing to do with Salvation, as the New Birth is an exclusive operation performed by the Holy Spirit in your inner man as a Gift from God, and is separate from your "works".
Salvation is God's work in you and for you, and it has not anything to do with you doing something to earn it or keep it.

 

[JLB]

Faith without works is Faith.
This is because its not built on works., but its built on TRUST.
And trust, is faith.

See, the issue is "righteousness".
The issue, is, how can you become as righteous as God., as this is what He requires for you to be accepted into his family.
How do you get the Righteous from God that you need, so that you end up in heaven after you die?
Now ask yourself...
Before you were saved, or regarding any religion......you go about doing good, giving to the poor, loving the hurting, trying to live a good life, maybe even got W-baptized or took Communion for half your life.
Thats all "works".
Now, did any of that save you?
I'll ask you again.......BEFORE YOU WERE SAVED.........if you went around doing good, giving the poor, loving the hurting, trying to live a good life....(Wbaptism, Communion)..> did any of that ......do any of those WORKS save you?
Then how is it, that some falsely believe and teach that those exact same works that COULD NOT save you before you met Jesus and trusted him as Savior.......How is it that you now think that those very same works that didnt save you before you met Christ are going to keep you saved if you do them, or cause you to lose your salvation if you dont do them?

Here is how Paul explains it., and he explains it perfectly as he is the only Apostle who says that Jesus came to him an taught him the revelation of the "Grace of God".
No other apostle says this, including James, so, dont run there to argue with Paul about "works".
Thats a FAIL every time you do it.
So dont do it.

Here is Paul:

"Faith is >counted< as RIGHTEOUSNESS"""............(not works, = never works.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

New International Version
However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

New Living Translation
But people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners.

English Standard Version
And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

New American Standard Bible
But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

King James Bible
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.

International Standard Version
However, to someone who does not work, but simply believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.

NET Bible
But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous, his faith is credited as righteousness.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But to the one who does not labor, but believes only in The One who justifies sinners, is his faith accounted for righteousness.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
However, when people don't work but believe God, the one who approves ungodly people, their faith is regarded as God's approval.

Jubilee Bible 2000
But to him that does not work, but believes in him that justifies the ungodly, the faith is counted as righteousness.

King James 2000 Bible
But to him that works not, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

American King James Version
But to him that works not, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

American Standard Version
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But to him that worketh not, yet believeth in him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reputed to justice, according to the purpose of the grace of God.

Darby Bible Translation
but to him who does not work, but believes on him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.

English Revised Version
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.

Webster's Bible Translation
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Weymouth New Testament
whereas in the case of a man who pleads no actions of his own, but simply believes in Him who declares the ungodly free from guilt, his faith is placed to his credit as righteousness.

World English Bible
But to him who doesn't work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.

Young's Literal Translation
and to him who is not working, and is believing upon Him who is declaring righteous the impious, his faith is reckoned -- to righteousness:

Faith without the work of obedience is dead.

Obedience is the foundation of both faith and righteousness.

How can disobedience ever be righteous?

Faith without the work of obedience is dead, inactive, worthless and can not please God.

Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. James 2:17


21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
James 2:21-22

Hebrews says it this way -

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.
Hebrews 11:8

By faith Abraham obeyed what God told him to do.


7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7

Noah obeyed God and moved with Godly fear...

Those who do not obey the Gospel do not believe the Gospel.

Faith without obedience is not faith, but rather its disobedience.

JLB

 

[jeff77]

God counts your faith as Righteousness.
He counts your works as works.
If your good deeds could win heaven for you, then Jesus could have saved himself some trouble.
So, if you want to separate Salvation from Discipleship, then that is fine.....as one is something that God does for you for free, when you BELIEVE THE GOSPEL, that saves you, and the other is what you should do, as a disciple, subsequent to your being "born again".
However, being a disciple has nothing to do with Salvation, as the New Birth is an exclusive operation performed by the Holy Spirit in your inner man as a Gift from God, and is separate from your "works".
Salvation is God's work in you and for you, and it has not anything to do with you doing something to earn it or keep it.

What does it mean in John 3:16 when it says "who so ever believeth"? Surely it does not just mean believe in the existence of Jesus.

 

[Kidron]

Faith without the work of obedience is dead.

Obedience is the foundation of both faith and righteousness.

How can disobedience ever be righteous?


God is not making obedience righteous, he's making the person righteous.
And he does this when you BELIEVE, if you read the scriptures i posted.
(i didnt write them).


Faith without the work of obedience is dead, inactive, worthless and can not please God.

It could be that a person no longer serves the Lord,....however, when God saved them, he didnt require anything but FAITH.
(read the scriptures i posted).




Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. James 2:17

James was telling you that you can see his faith by his works.
He is not saying....."i cant be saved unless i do stuff".
That is what you are saying, but that is not what he is saying.


21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac
Hebrews says it this way -

Absolutely not, according to Paul. (Romans 4)

For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.




Those who do not obey the Gospel do not believe the Gospel.

The "Gospel" is this......(notice that Paul calls it the "Gospel")
And if you exercise faith in this Gospel, God will save you.

1 Corinthians 15
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the >gospel <which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;








K

 

[JLB]

God is not making obedience righteous, he's making the person righteous.
And he does this when you BELIEVE, if you read the scriptures i posted.
(i didnt write them).

Those who obey are righteous.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.1 John 3:7

Righteousness is expressed in the action of obedience.

If you have a scripture that shows us a disobedient person is somehow "righteous" then please share it with us.


Faith without the action, or work of obedience is dead.

Faith, all by itself, without the work of obedience is dead.

8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,2 Thessalonians 1:8-9


in flaming fire taking vengeance... on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Read it for yourself.


JLB

 

[LovethroughDove]

1 John 4-6 The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.

So, we trust the Holy Spirit to guide our steps...........and you better look like Christ!

 

[dianegcook]

Amen, lovethroughdove and JLB!

1John 1:1-6
These things I write unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous..
And hereby we do know we know him, if we keep His commandments.

He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

But whoso keepeth His word, in him verily is the love of God perfected, hereby know we that we are in Him.

He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked.

ROM.3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God,

 

[Kidron]

Those who obey are righteous.

Yes, Those who obey hear the Gospel and exercise faith, are given the "gift of righteousness".
Romans 5:17.

 

[Kidron]

So, we trust the Holy Spirit to guide our steps...........and you better look like Christ!

You are talking about discipleship that occurs after you are saved and does not save you.

If a person is saved, then they are in a new spiritual position.
This position is referred to as "in Christ", and Paul refers to this as becoming a "new Creature".
This born again situation has nothing to do with our works (discipleship), and is completely based on God providing us with his very righteousness.
Romans 5:17 & 4:8

 

[Kidron]

What does it mean in John 3:16 when it says "who so ever believeth"? Surely it does not just mean believe in the existence of Jesus.

Paul explains this in 1 Corinthians 15:3-8.
Its known as the "Gospel".
You exercise faith in the "Gospel", (you believe it after you have heard it as "faith cometh by hearing") and then God, based on your faith, same as he did for Abraham, gives you his Righteousness as a gift. Romans 5:17
This is why your New Testament tells you that Abraham is the father of all those that "BELIEVE", and is careful not to say the father of all those who "work".
Romans 4:16

 

[JLB]

Paul explains this in 1 Corinthians 15:3-8.
Its known as the "Gospel".
You exercise faith in the "Gospel", (you believe it after you have heard it as "faith cometh by hearing") and then God, based on your faith, same as he did for Abraham, gives you his Righteousness as a gift. Romans 5:17
This is why your New Testament tells you that Abraham is the father of all those that "BELIEVE", and is careful not to say the father of all those who "work".
Romans 4:16

Believe means obey.

Without obedience there is no righteousness.

Abraham was justified by the action of his obedience.

Clearly faith alone, without the Action of Obedience, is dead.

You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. James 2:24

The work that James speaks of is obedience, not the works of the law, not dead works, not good deeds... But obedience to God Himself.


Example: Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21

Abraham's obedience to heed the Voice of God, is what justified him in the sight of God.


JLB

 

[Kidron]

Believe means obey.

Without obedience there is no righteousness.

Paul says this.... "Romans 3:28

""Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.""


Did you notice the phrase...."justified by faith WITHOUT"?
Did you notice the word..."conclude"?





Example: Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21

Paul says this.. Romans 4:3

""""For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.""""

Did you notice what God accepts and in return he gives Abraham "righteousness"?
\

Then Paul says this...

Galatians 3:6

Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Did you notice what caused God to impute righteousness to Abraham?
>Faith< = "believed God".


Then Paul says this.... Galatians 3:8

"""""And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith""""

Notice what the scripture says justifies?
Is it works?
NOPE.
Its "faith".


Notice what Paul says here in verse 7.


""""Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham"""


So, here is the thing JLB.
If you try to use one verse in James, that is not talking about SALVATION, to try to create a false gospel of works, then you have to step over entire letters that Paul wrote that are only designed to teach that "
Romans 5:1
""""Therefore , since we have BEEN JUSTIFIED THROUGH FAITH (SAVED), we have peace with God >THROUGH" our Lord Jesus Christ."""

Notice this salvation, this justification, this redemption, does not include works?





K

 

[jeff77]

Matthew 19:16-17

What about the man that ask Jesus what he must do to receive eternal life?

 

[JLB]

not the works of the law, but the obedience of faith.

There is no need to quote scriptures from Paul, as he contrast's faith and the works of the law.

That is not the subject.

The subject is the obedience of faith.

Faith alone, without the action of obedience is dead.

Abraham proved that He believed, WHEN he obeyed God to sacrifice Issac.

Abraham was justified WHEN he offered Issac.

The was not the works of the law, nor was it a "good idea", but rather it was a direct response to God Himself.

Abraham was justified WHEN he obeyed.

JLB

 

[Kidron]

Abraham was justified WHEN he obeyed.

JLB

Sorry, but Abraham was justified when he believed.
At that "instant" he became Romans 4:16.
"Abraham BELIEVED God".......and this faith was counted as righteousness.
Not on his way to kill the boy, but at the INSTANT he believed.
So, the belief came, the justification followed, and then he didnt have to do the works.
Thats what the story says,.
And you are saying that the Works, created the Righteousness, and that is not the Scriptures.

What you are doing is confusing Discipleship with Salvation in an attempt to prove you can lose your salvation if you dont do "works".
So, of course you are to live the Christian walk BECAUSE YOU ARE ONE< and not because if you dont you lose the blood atonement.