Bible Study Faith without works

[GodsGrace]

I despise labels.

It divides us into categories.


No Bueno.

JLB

LOL
Is being Christian a label??

 

[JLB]

LOL
Is being Christian a label??

I’ll take Christian.

That’s biblical

 

[Truthfrees]

I despise labels.

It divides us into categories.

No Bueno.

JLB

me too - plus neither of those words is in the bible so i don't like them for that reason also

 

[Truthfrees]

It's rather disturbing TTYTT.
The guy is either lying or is not in any position to be telling others what he himself does not understand.

I feel badly that Truthfrees is now confused.

it is quite confusing - these man-made terms get convoluted and disputed -

imo if we just read scripture and then discuss how to DO it / apply it to daily living we would be a lot better off

why do we dispute theory anyway? - if we are not trying to live it daily what good are theories to us?

so this thread is about faith without works - we could discuss how to put our faith to work to make many lives better - our lives and other people's lives - really what good is our faith if we are not going to use it consistently to see God's will be done on earth?

imo the more we use our faith to grow in Christ and do the things God tells us to do the more interesting we become - people want to know about God because they see Him in action in our own lives - we become infectious for God

 

[ezra]

synergism

Synergism is the teaching that we cooperate with God in our efforts of salvation. This is opposed to monergism which is the teaching that God is the sole agent involved in salvation. Cults are synergistic in that they teach that God's grace combined with our efforts are what makes forgiveness of sins possible. this is what carm site listed


syn·er·gism free dictionary
(sĭn′ər-jĭz′əm)
n.
1. Synergy.
2. Christianity The doctrine that individual salvation is achieved through a combination of human will and divine grace.
see the problem is man keeps trying to improve on God plan //much like this topic which as been blown so far out . its like trying to find body parts from a person in a explosion .
faith and works is not hard to understand .. works alone is not hard to understand... someplace along in time ..man had to add works into the plan of salvation . making saved By Grace through FAITH null and void .

what a shame when Christians split hairs over pure Bible theology. if the word of God says it then that is what it means especially when it comes to our walk and being saved . i use the term Born again so many are saved but not of the spirit

 

[ezra]

it is quite confusing - these man-made terms get convoluted and disputed -

imo if we just read scripture and then discuss how to DO it / apply it to daily living we would be a lot better off

why do we dispute theory anyway? - if we are not trying to live it daily what good are theories to us?

so this thread is about faith without works - we could discuss how to put our faith to work to make many lives better - our lives and other people's lives - really what good is our faith if we are not going to use it consistently to see God's will be done on earth?

imo the more we use our faith to grow in Christ and do the things God tells us to do the more interesting we become - people want to know about God because they see Him in action in our own lives - we become infectious for God

well you just posted all most what i said lol your right
MAN MADE TERMS ===confusion

 

[ezra]

why do we dispute theory anyway? - if we are not trying to live it daily what good are theories to us? (your meddling ) lol

so this thread is about faith without works - we could discuss how to put our faith to work to make many lives better - our lives and other people's lives - really what good is our faith if we are not going to use it consistently to see God's will be done on earth?

imo the more we use our faith to grow in Christ and do the things God tells us to do the more interesting we become - people want to know about God because they see Him in action in our own lives - we become infectious for God

Bingo that is what james is teaching . on a scale of 1-10 i give this a 10 +

 

[JLB]

Synergism is the teaching that we cooperate with God in our efforts of salvation. This is opposed to monergism which is the teaching that God is the sole agent involved in salvation. Cults are synergistic in that they teach that God's grace combined with our efforts are what makes forgiveness of sins possible. this is what carm site listed


syn·er·gism free dictionary
(sĭn′ər-jĭz′əm)
n.
1. Synergy.
2. Christianity The doctrine that individual salvation is achieved through a combination of human will and divine grace.
see the problem is man keeps trying to improve on God plan //much like this topic which as been blown so far out . its like trying to find body parts from a person in a explosion .
faith and works is not hard to understand .. works alone is not hard to understand... someplace along in time ..man had to add works into the plan of salvation . making saved By Grace through FAITH null and void .

what a shame when Christians split hairs over pure Bible theology. if the word of God says it then that is what it means especially when it comes to our walk and being saved . i use the term Born again so many are saved but not of the spirit

That’s exactly how we are saved by obeying the Gospel truth by the power of the Spirit.


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23

• obeying the truth through the Spirit

JLB

 

[Truthfrees]

Synergism is the teaching that we cooperate with God in our efforts of salvation. This is opposed to monergism which is the teaching that God is the sole agent involved in salvation. Cults are synergistic in that they teach that God's grace combined with our efforts are what makes forgiveness of sins possible. this is what carm site listed


syn·er·gism free dictionary
(sĭn′ər-jĭz′əm)
n.
1. Synergy.
2. Christianity The doctrine that individual salvation is achieved through a combination of human will and divine grace.
see the problem is man keeps trying to improve on God plan //much like this topic which as been blown so far out . its like trying to find body parts from a person in a explosion .
faith and works is not hard to understand .. works alone is not hard to understand... someplace along in time ..man had to add works into the plan of salvation . making saved By Grace through FAITH null and void .

what a shame when Christians split hairs over pure Bible theology. if the word of God says it then that is what it means especially when it comes to our walk and being saved . i use the term Born again so many are saved but not of the spirit

yes - that is what i was told synergism is - God needs us to accomplish His work of salvation

and i was told monergism is God does everything including choose who gets saved - so the poor souls who go to hell were chosen to go to hell -

and then i was told by someone else that synergism/monergism were terms created to oppose armenianism - so one huge theological battle with people going all out to oppose each other

this is why i disagreed with both terms - both terms went too far in either ditch - the truth is God did it all all by Himself with no help from us and we then choose to accept and receive what God did or reject and walk away from God's free gift

 

[ezra]

LOL
Is being Christian a label??

NO its a relationship

 

[ezra]

yes - that is what i was told synergism is - God needs us to accomplish His work of salvation

and i was told monergism is God does everything including choose who gets saved - so the poor souls who go to hell were chosen to go to hell -

and then i was told by someone else that synergism/monergism were terms created to oppose armenianism - so one huge theological battle with people going all out to oppose each other

this is why i disagreed with both terms - both terms went too far in either ditch - the truth is God did it all all by Himself with no help from us and we then choose to accept and receive what God did or reject and walk away from God's free gift

you think God is impressed with all these man made up words?

 

[Truthfrees]

you think God is impressed with all these man made up words?

i think He probably wanted us to quote scripture - because His power is inherent in His words - Colossians 1:6 - Hebrews 4:12 - Psalms 12:6 -there is comparatively none in our words

and the angels of God do God's words not ours - Psalms 103:20 - so praying and saying God's words is much better than making up our own

 

[TheGoldenThread]

By "works of self" do you mean the works of the law?
(without faith)

IOW, we could work all we want to and still not be saved.
Works under the law do not save us.

But once we ARE saved, works become imperative. We work because this is what a Christian is supposed to do....Ephesians 2:10.

We work because God said so and we are faithful to obey.

I think this one along with my other question I asked is a way for you to pervaricate from answering my questions and statements.

I can appreciate you are wanting to get to know more of what I am sharing by asking questions, but I would appreciate that you answer my questions first, which I feel are clear enough for you to answer without needing further clarification, and then we can move on to answering your questions. In that order.

In peace

 

[TheGoldenThread]

The word "earn" implies that payment is given based on the work done per a contract, either verbal or written. Do you think God is contractually obligated to save us based on something we do?

I am not sure why you are using the term that I used to try to negate the overall spirit of what I am saying. Sounds like a red herring to the main point to me.

Here's a simple question: What must we do to be saved? If the answer to this question requires us to do something of any kind, then isn't that work based salvation?

If the answer is that we don't do anything to receive salvation, then God will save everybody. Down to the greatest sinner imaginable.

Which is it?

In peace

 

[TheGoldenThread]

• #2 is what Jesus said. “This is the work of God: that you be believing in the One Whom that One sent-forth”.

Some people believe Him, some don’t. Jesus didn’t say God chooses people to go the Hell.

Why a disciple of Jesus would think Jesus said; ‘This is the work of Man: that you be believing in the One Whom that One sent-forth” doesn’t make sense, no.


Because it’s not. A ritual is a series of worship actions. Confessing “Jesus is Lord” is...well... a confession.

I think the part I put in bold and what you said after this is contradictory to your main point. If it is only the work of God, then there is nothing we can do. This isn't your point, however. You believe that we need to believe in Jesus by saying a ritualistic prayer inviting Jesus into our hearts (or something to that affect). BTW, Jesus never says that is what we should do.

I agree that God doesn't choose people to go to hell, but if you believe that the gift is free and their is nothing on man's part to receive the gift, then all people will go to heaven, or God will choose people to go to hell. I hope you can see that the logic you are sharing leads to this outcome.

I don't think you believe this, however. But this is what you have to believe if you say that there is nothing on man's part to do, in order to receive God's gift. This inconsistency in teaching is due to a resistance of people not wanting to obey God. That is the bottom line. People don't want to obey God, so they came up with a doctrine by twisting some of Paul's words (to their own destruction) to give them a doctrine that will allow them to willfully sin and still enter Heaven without any effort on their parts of changing.

I don't think God is impressed with this type of an attitude.

In peace

 

[Truthfrees]

I think this one along with my other question I asked is a way for you to pervaricate from answering my questions and statements.

I can appreciate you are wanting to get to know more of what I am sharing by asking questions, but I would appreciate that you answer my questions first, which I feel are clear enough for you to answer without needing further clarification, and then we can move on to answering your questions. In that order.

In peace

wondering was talking to someone else if you see who she was quoting in her post that you quoted

just wanted to clear up the misunderstanding that she was not answering your question at all because she was replying to someone else

 

[Truthfrees]

I am not sure why you are using the term that I used to try to negate the overall spirit of what I am saying. Sounds like a red herring to the main point to me.

Here's a simple question: What must we do to be saved? If the answer to this question requires us to do something of any kind, then isn't that work based salvation?

If the answer is that we don't do anything to receive salvation, then God will save everybody. Down to the greatest sinner imaginable.

Which is it?

In peace

WIP was clarifying that there is nothing to do to earn salvation - it is a free gift that is either received or rejected - the word EARN or WORK is inappropriate for describing how we choose to receive or reject God's free gift of salvation

 

[Truthfrees]

I think the part I put in bold and what you said after this is contradictory to your main point. If it is only the work of God, then there is nothing we can do. This isn't your point, however. You believe that we need to believe in Jesus by saying a ritualistic prayer inviting Jesus into our hearts (or something to that affect). BTW, Jesus never says that is what we should do.

I agree that God doesn't choose people to go to hell, but if you believe that the gift is free and their is nothing on man's part to receive the gift, then all people will go to heaven, or God will choose people to go to hell. I hope you can see that the logic you are sharing leads to this outcome.

I don't think you believe this, however. But this is what you have to believe if you say that there is nothing on man's part to do, in order to receive God's gift. This inconsistency in teaching is due to a resistance of people not wanting to obey God. That is the bottom line. People don't want to obey God, so they came up with a doctrine by twisting some of Paul's words (to their own destruction) to give them a doctrine that will allow them to willfully sin and still enter Heaven without any effort on their parts of changing.

I don't think God is impressed with this type of an attitude.

In peace

you should read chessman 's post again

 

[chessman]

If it is only the work of God, then there is nothing we can do.

Who said this besides you? Not me.

You believe that we need to believe in Jesus by saying a ritualistic prayer inviting Jesus into our hearts

Nope, that’s not what I said and not what I believe.

if you believe that the gift is free and their is nothing on man's part to receive the gift, then all people will go to heaven, or God will choose people to go to hell.

Me knowing that the gift of eternal life is a gift from The Father does not mean God chooses people to go to Hell. That’s NOT logical.

I hope you can see that the logic you are sharing leads to this outcome.

First, I didn’t share your statement that God chooses people to go to Hell, you did.
Second,
If g = F (gift is free) then G = H (God chooses some for Hell)
is not a logical statement. Your conclusion does not follow from your premises.

I don't think you believe this, however.

Of course I don’t believe a gift being free means God chooses some people to go to Hell. Why would I???
Nor do I believe that because a gift is free that means New England will win the 2019 Super Bowl.
One thing has nothing to do with the other thing.

That is the bottom line. People don't want to obey God, so they came up with a doctrine by twisting some of Paul's words (to their own destruction) to give them a doctrine that will allow them to willfully sin and still enter Heaven without any effort on their parts of changing.

First, I’ve not even mentioned Paul’s words in this thread.

Second, just because me and Jesus both know that it really is a work of God that I believe in Christ does not mean that I believe that out of a desire to willfully sin. I have zero desire to sin (willfully or not).

 

[GodsGrace]

I think this one along with my other question I asked is a way for you to pervaricate from answering my questions and statements.

I can appreciate you are wanting to get to know more of what I am sharing by asking questions, but I would appreciate that you answer my questions first, which I feel are clear enough for you to answer without needing further clarification, and then we can move on to answering your questions. In that order.

In peace

You mean PREVARICATE?

I don't prevaricate.

I was posting to another member.

Please repeat your question to me if I missed it.
Thanks.