I went through 12 years straight total, all through the 90's in heavy studying of end times.
I gave up when I realized nobody knew what they were talking about.
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False Prophet
- Thread starter Rollo Tamasi
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I went through 12 years straight total, all through the 90's in heavy studying of end times.
I gave up when I realized nobody knew what they were talking about.
smaller
Member
It's about that time a believer will be led to perhaps more genuine presentations. I don't think it will be anything like what is pictured in those hundreds of novels myself. Most are all doom and gloom. I don't see it that way at all.
There are parties that will be destroyed, in the end. We know for example that the devil and his messengers are those parties. The Great Tribulation and the Day of Wrath are in fact for THEM.
We can know the "methods" of Gods Destruction. Forgiveness, faith, mercy, LOVE.
Romans 12:21
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
I don't think God will be changing that methodology.
People read scriptures from Jesus such as this one:
Matthew 24:37
But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
In Isaiah we are given a taste of that the waters of Noah are AS in spiritual terms:
Isaiah 54:
8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the Lord thy Redeemer.
9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the Lord that hath mercy on thee.
Gods Mercy may not be all that kind to the flesh. But we are going to be moving on to our New Body in any cases of end time sights. I suspect that the manifestation of the sons of God will transpire here, on earth, first.
Romans 8:
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Don't know if you picked it up, but I did a brief post on being caught up or meeting in the air, and it is not the sky above our heads.
http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...r-believers-are-still-his.63906/#post-1181718http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...r-believers-are-still-his.63906/#post-1181718
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Malachi
Member
Our bodies being a temple of the Holy Spirit has absolutely nothing to do with the third Temple, which is being planned for the near future. There is also a Temple in Heaven right now, and that too has nothing to do with this prophecy. We need to rightly divide the Word of Truth.
Its greatly implied:
I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers.2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”4 They are “the two olive trees”and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”[a]5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die.6 They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.
God did not destroy the temple. The Romans did. Israel is currently under the rule of those who reject Jesus as the Christ. But I expect after the sign in Rev 11 is given they/most will give glory to God. (finally believe Jesus is who He is taught to be)
By Paul who could see well.
who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
Regardless who builds the temple it would still be considered The Temple of God. Like the one in ancient times. We don't need a temple for sacrifices as Jesus is our High Priest who entered the true tabernacle in Heaven by His blood, but not all are of the faith.
Randy
smaller
Member
There have already been 3 temples in the O.T. The wandering temple, the temple built by the rich man, Solomon, and the rebuilt temple.
There are 3 temples presented in the N.T. The human body of Jesus, the believers on earth and the collective body of Christ raised from the vile body.
There are 3 Babylons in the Bible. The tower of Babel, the kingdom of Babylon and Mystery Babylon, which has encompassed mankind in the natural body from the beginning.
There are all interesting studies. Particularly in how they overlap, how they RELATE to each others, and the last Babylon being eliminated before the last Temple in the N.T.
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I would say God used the Romans to destroy that temple . Just as He used the romans to kill Jesus ..
smaller
Member
We await the "revealing." The usurper of the temple of our flesh bodies has been "sitting" in the temple of man from day 1 of man.
2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
1 Corinthians 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
Here is a picture of that "god" sitting in the temple of flesh:
2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Here is the same picture, again:
Mark 4:
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
and again:
Romans 11:
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
and again:
2 Corinthians 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
and again:
Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
And this is exactly, AGAIN, what Paul speaks of here:
2 Thessalonians 2:9
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
There are hundreds of more examples of this, if needed.
But you see the "god of this world" does blind the minds of flesh to this matter. And that "god" is a spirit, the spirit of the anti-Christ. That "god" forces the flesh mind not to see these matters.
The revealing may very well not be seen by the majority, even though it has been in writing for quite some time to see. The revealing was always there. But the flesh mind can not see it. Can not hear it.
Malachi
Member
Well when you consider the circumstances surrounding the destruction of the first Temple, it should be clear that God sent the Romans to destroy the second Temple. He brought judgement on unbelieving Israel through the Romans, just as He did through the Babylonians. Christ had warned Israel of impending judgement.
Now God will allow unbelieving Israel to erect the third Temple, (which will actually be Satan's but will be considered God's). Then this Temple will be destroyed during a tremendous earthquake in Jerusalem, and a fourth Temple -- the Millennial Temple -- will be built under Christ and under God for eternity.
I would state Jesus came to save. There will be a time God brings the "whole" world into judgment. Were they worse sinners then the rest of the world? What about the innocent in the land? Left on their own (the path they chose) their enemies destroyed them. Letting it happen is the only thing God did. He gave them their freewill choice.
The act of the cross was not held against Israel by the one who judges for Jesus stated on the cross, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do".
"Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 16But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life"
God did not use anyone to kill jesus. God does not tempt people to do evil. Mankind has a sin problem in general. Wicked men crucified Him as God foreknew as He knows the thoughts and minds of all.
Judas loved money and helped himself to the collection money. All God had to do was pick one that loved money so much He would betray even the Son of God for money. Judas was that way before he was selected by Jesus so that the scriptures would be fulfilled. Judas had freewill.
So Gods judgment was to give them a choice. When wicked men in Israel challenged Rome the whole nation suffered the retribution of Rome. Otherwise they lived in peace.
Randy
Sinthesis
Member
Luk 20:9 ¶ Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time.
Luk 20:10 - And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty.
Luk 20:11 - And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.
Luk 20:12 - And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.
Luk 20:13 - Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.
Luk 20:14 - But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.
Luk 20:15 - So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?
Luk 20:16 - He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.
Luk 20:17 - And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?
Luk 20:18 - Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Luk 20:19 - And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them.
Luk 20:10 - And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty.
Luk 20:11 - And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.
Luk 20:12 - And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.
Luk 20:13 - Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.
Luk 20:14 - But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.
Luk 20:15 - So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?
Luk 20:16 - He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.
Luk 20:17 - And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?
Luk 20:18 - Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Luk 20:19 - And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them.
Malachi
Member
While Jesus did pray to the Father to forgive His enemies, He also held Israel accountable for His death as *betrayers and murderers*, and placed the blame squarely on Israel through the apostles and disciples (speaking under the power and inspiration of the Holy Spirit). Please note (Acts 2:22,23; Acts 7: 51.52):
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
Jesus is one who judges and He Himself has authority to forgive sin. He forgives every sin against His person. He came to save not destroy. Man has be appointed once to die and THEN face judgment. (after the life of the body) There is a appointed time for Gods day of wrath for the "whole" world but that day has not yet come. Rev 11 is a sign that can't be mistaken. After that testimony the great tribulation shall come upon the whole world and unless God cut short those days no one would survive. For the sake of the elect God will shorten those days. Elect=>Those who obey Gods commands and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
As the time approached for him to be taken up to heaven, Jesus resolutely set out for Jerusalem. 52And he sent messengers on ahead, who went into a Samaritan village to get things ready for him; 53but the people there did not welcome him, because he was heading for Jerusalem. 54When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, “Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy themb ?” 55But Jesus turned and rebuked them. 56Then he and his disciples went to another village.
Randy
Not sure of the stance. Satan is currently in the world and leads the whole world astray. But from what I read the beast is released at the sounding of the 5th trump call of God. The one who kills the two witnesses in Rev 11 after the 1260 days of testimony has been completed. That beast, satan, and all their armies, (visible and invisible) are destroyed by Jesus at His 2nd coming. Rev 16:15 The great battle of God Almighty. Israel (the nation) will be invaded by the lawless one in the future. The mount of olives will be split in two to make a way of escape from the surrounding armies. (Zech 14) It could be the earthquake as written in Rev 11 results in the split of the mount of olives in two as those events are the same timing. The lawless one will sit in the temple of God declaring himself to be god and be overthrown by Jesus and the armies of Heaven that follow Him.
smaller
Member
IF that is the case, and it IS, I don't know why any believer would look any further for the anti-Christ (which is a wicked/resisting spirit sitting in the temple of MAN) or for some temple of sticks and bricks temple built by UNbelieving Israel for some man to sit in. That whole construct is, well, ridiculous imho.
The path of Revelation is paved quite solidly in allegorical terms and must be dissected that way. Why? Because 1/2 of the equations therein revolve around wrath and destruction to entities unseen, the devil and his messengers. Trying to see that on the outside will not work, other than perhaps massive confusions upon all flesh. And we're already in that condition. Have been for quite some time.
markathome
Member
as a side note, when the temple was destroyed by Rome ~70ad, the jews Acts 7:51-54 fled south, they surely wouldn't head north toward rome. Took em about ~500 some years to decrypt the χξϛ and create their new text.
Sinthesis
Member
That particular war with Rome ended at Masada 3yrs later. They still had two more wars with Rome in them, after which the Rabbis had to reform Jewish doctrine to deal with their humble new relationship to God as exemplified by the diaspora. It was an illiterate ishmaelite pagan who inspired the text you're referring to 500yrs later.
The spirit of the anti-christ is in the world. I am not looking for it but Jesus saw one fall from heaven. Called him a liar and a murderer from the beginning and the father of lies. A being who apparently seeks to lead the whole world astray and sows weeds among mankind. (Though man is tempted by their own evil desires)
However in regard to Rev or the time of the end as I read Rev 11 is a sign that can't be mistaken. Since the two witnesses are allowed to be killed by the beast then in those days the identity will be known. If I state he will declare himself god in the temple of God then its because I read it in the NT and believed it to be true. If you are one who thinks the construct is ridiculous so be it. You are free to state that. I don't agree.
Randy
smaller
Member
Some believers look for some guy when they already see the answers right in front of their own eyes, such as in the above.
It isn't hard to SEE the works of the anti-Christ. The world is and always has been erupting with same. We may observe the leaderships of any country and will find them corrupt. The same observations can be had on smaller scales wherever we are. If it was concentrated to one man, what would that man be but a collective picture of the people problems in any cases of sights?
In short, it's a people problem. Always has been. The problem is built into the people, who all have evil present within them and an evil conscience. So, where is evil but within? None have to look externally or to any man to see their own internal problem of evil.
And to make it even more interesting is to see that God Himself made us that way.
Deuteronomy 30:15
See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
I would be thankful if there was only A MAN, singular, as the anti-Christ and the whole world of people DIDN'T have the identical problem internally. But that will not be the case.
If I thought that the people dissecting Biblical allegory had legitimate methodology to peer through that curtain and sort through the pieces of Revelation I would agree with the proposals of the stick and brick temple and the bad guy sitting in it. But that isn't the case. Criticism and skepticism is the basis of any reasoning forms of analysis.
Otherwise as I see it, it's just a fairytale to sell novels and deflect the people from looking at themselves and their own battles with internal evil, the very same thing that the anti-Christ is supposed to "personify." When the personification is upon all, already.
The number of his name is not difficult to perceive. 666 in the Hebrew gematria means COVERING. The anti-Christ is "the covering cherub." A wicked evil spirit that is IN the flesh/mind and heart. Mark 4:15. Sin is of the devil, 1 John 3:8. The math and the connections are not difficult to calculate or to see, that is a problem of the "collective" of MAN. But until any see this problem is their own, they'll always lean and defer to "some other guy." Some booogie man that they can blame rather than examine themselves.
John the Apostle gave us exceptionally good advice to believers in this matter:
2 John 1:
7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
8 Look to yourselves,