For whom did Christ die? My understanding is, He died for all mankind

[JLB]

I have always read every word. And I have always disagreed.

I believe someone who feels they need to work to remain saved for fear they can do something to lose their salvation are fully entitled to that personal opinion. No matter how many scriptures such a one must weave together to make a basket with holes and through which their soul shall slip away from eternity with God, so be it. For therein they are creator of their own doctrine. And must live it so. However, that is not the truth the Son of man laid his life down to deliver. And there is no debate in that.

No, not one.

Thanks for sharing your opinion, again.

No scripture. No not one.



JLB

 

[JLB]

40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

Jesus said those who believe are saved.

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Believe = Saved

How about those who believe for a while, then no longer believe, do they still qualify as believing or unbelieving?

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Scriptural proof that Christians cannot lose their salvation
by Matt Slick
5/10/14
Is there Scriptural proof that Christians cannot lose their salvation? Yes, there is; and it is found in the words of Christ.

• John 8:29, "And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him."
• John 6:39, "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day."

If some of the ones that are given to Jesus by the Father end up being lost, then wouldn't that mean God the Father himself failed because some of the ones the Father decided to give to the Son for the Son to keep ended up being lost? Doesn't the Father, in all his omniscience, know who to give to the Son so that they will not be lost? And, does the Father also know that the Son will accomplish His will and not lose any? Of course he does. Does not the Son know how to carry out the will of the Father and keep those given to Him? Of course he does. So, to say that some of the ones given to the Son by God the Father will be lost is to accuse God the Father of making a mistake in his judgment of whom to trust with those he has chosen to have eternal life.

Do you see the humongous problem that is laid at the feet of those who would say that they can lose their salvation by saying they have to keep the law and/or remain faithful? The verses that we're talking about here speak of the work and the will of God the Father giving to the Son a special group of people and not giving others to Him. If they can be lost, then Jesus failed to do the will of God the Father; and it would also mean God the Father made a mistake in giving those to the Son for safe keeping.

Yes the Father does not leave those who do what is pleasing to Him.


Here are those who will receive eternal life:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8

and again


Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

Christian's, believers, sons of the kingdom, must live according to the Spirit within them, rather than the desires of their sinful flesh, in order to avoid condemnation.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

• no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh.

Those who live according to the flesh, by practicing the works of the flesh, will not inherit the kingdom of God.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

• those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

JLB

 

[chessman]

If you think someone is getting personal, please report it. We can't catch everything.

Here's five personal and derogatory rule breaking comments that were posted in just a couple of pages.
p.s. and my point about them:

You can not refute what these words say and what they mean no matter how hard you twist the scriptures.

Words mean what they say in context.

Matthew 25:31-33 Now when the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate them from one another like a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right and the goats on the left.​

There is no context within Jesus' words here or anywhere that have Him saying, "Those on His left hand are ... His sheep"

Notice how personal and derogatory comment(s) adds zero apologetic content to the discussion. Simply getting in the way of what could have been a perfectly profitable conversation.

It's sad you can't or won't understand what Jesus is teaching us here.

Odd comment given that multiple requests for my further understanding to be posted (answers to questions that seem to show conflict with "His sheep" being placed on the left) of why (Scriptually or personally) the poster understands His sheep (former sheep that is) are placed on His left on Judgment Day.

I will liken you to those who:

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
For the hearts of this people have grown dull.

Not only is this personally directed to me, it's a passage that proves my case: some of "His people" can in fact be unbelievers (as in never believing). Like those put in charge at the time of Jesus sermon which is exactly who He meant were goats (not perceiving/understanding).

Chessman, you are going to have to do better than just ignoring what the scripture here so plainly says:

I've ignored zero Scripture. If I'd of said this to him .... (self edited)

 

[JLB]

Words mean what they say in context.

Matthew 25:31-33 Now when the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate them from one another like a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right and the goats on the left.
There is no context within Jesus' words here or anywhere that have Him saying, "Those on His left hand are ... His sheep"

Notice how personal and derogatory comment(s) adds zero apologetic content to the discussion. Simply getting in the way of what could have been a perfectly profitable conversation.

Odd comment given that multiple requests for my further understanding to be posted (answers to questions that seem to show conflict with "His sheep" being placed on the left) of why (Scriptually or personally) the poster understands His sheep (former sheep that is) are placed on His left on Judgment Day.

Over and over I addressed this question, showing you from the context of the scriptures that those standing before Jesus on the Day of Judgement, were His people, His own servants, that started out being His people, His own servants but became unfaithful, in which they did nothing with what they were given, just like the teachings indicate starting in Matthew 24:45 and going all the way through the end of the Olivet Discourse.


From post # 71 -

Those who stand before His judgement seat of the Day of Judgement, both sheep and goats are His people, not unbelievers who never believed.

The reason the sheep on His right hand inherit the kingdom of God, is because they were faithful to reproduce the life and love of God that they were given, into other people by obedient acts of love.

This is what Jesus just taught them in the parable of the talents and is the context of His teaching of the sheep and goats.


IOW, a sheep can indeed become lost, meaning that they can go from one condition, saved; reconciled to God, to another condition, lost; dead to God.

You continue to ignore this principle of a sheep becoming lost.


His Sheep - His people who hear His voice, follow Him, and know Him = Faithful.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28


Those who believe for a while, or follow for a while, then wander off like a goat, may have started out as faithful, but ended up as unfaithful, just like the examples Jesus gave from His teaching of His servants.


You never answered this -

45 “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing.47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods.48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of,51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 24:45-51

In both cases His servant's were made ruler over His household: Promoted from among the other servants.

In both cases His servant's were in charge of distributing provision to His people.


Your theory has the Lord putting an evil unbeliever who is a servant of Satan in charge of distributing provision to His people, and thinking this evil unbeliever who is a servant of Satan will be faithful to serve Him.

Is that what you are attempting to teach us, Chessman, that Jesus made an evil unbeliever, a servant of Satan to be ruler of His people to give them food in due season?

 

[JLB]

Not only is this personally directed to me, it's a passage that proves my case: some of "His people" can in fact be unbelievers (as in never believing). Like those put in charge at the time of Jesus sermon which is exactly who He meant were goats (not perceiving/understanding).

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
Because you have rejected knowledge,
I also will reject you from being priest for Me;
Because you have forgotten the law of your God,
I also will forget your children.
Hosea 4:6


37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! Matthew 13:37-43

• the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom

The good seeds, the wheat, are His people, His own servants.


But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:12


Now the burden is on you to show from the scriptures that it's impossible for the sons of the kingdom to be cast into hell.




JLB

 

[chessman]

Over and over I addressed this question, showing you from the context of the scriptures that those standing before Jesus on the Day of Judgement, were His people, His own servants,

I never said, sugessted nor thought that the goats or both servants were not His people. That wasn't one of my questions to begin with.

From post #49

In fact all creation (all things) is His. That's the reason He has every right to seperate the goats on His left from the sheep on His right

Were the chief priest and elders at that time His people, yes or no?

You continue to ignore this principle of a sheep becoming lost.

Wrong. How absolutely absurd would one's understanding have to be to ignore the principle of one of His sheep becoming lost???

However, when one of His sheep becomes lost, does it become a goat or is it one of His 100 lost sheep that He finds?

Luke 15:4-5 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep and losing one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the grassland and go after the one that was lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he places it on his shoulders, rejoicing.​

For how long does this man go after His lost sheep? (I gave you a hint)

When He goes after it and finds it, does he then put it on His shoulder and rejoice OR does He call it a goat, place it on His left at Judgment Day and cut it in half as your claim implies?

 

[chessman]

Those who believe for a while, or follow for a while, then wander off like a goat, may have started out as faithful, but ended up as unfaithful

Do you have any Scripture that speaks of a wandering off goat? Or is this an opinion you hold without any Scripture references to support your case?

You never answered this

Yes I did (directly) in post #70. I'm not afraid to answer any questions. I might be wrong and need correcting. BTW, there were three repeated questions I asked you in post #70, that you've not answered.

Here's my answer and reason for it re-posted for you:

Yep. To demonstrate (through the literal testimony of their earthly rulers, to whom He spoke in parables) the truth that only God saves.

In both cases His servant's were made ruler over His household: Promoted from among the other servants

Please post the verse and underline the portion that says the wicked servant was "promoted".

Is that what you are attempting to teach us, Chessman, that Jesus made an evil unbeliever, a servant of Satan to be ruler of His people to give them food in due season?

Last time I will ask you the following question:

Were the chief priest and elders of His people (in the context/time Jesus told these parables and described His Judgment Day) ever believers, yes or no?

 

[JLB]

Yes I did (directly) in post #70. I'm not afraid to answer any questions. I might be wrong and need correcting. BTW, there were three repeated questions I asked you in post #70, that you've not answered.

Here's my answer and reason for it re-posted for you:

Yep. To demonstrate (through the literal testimony of their earthly rulers, to whom He spoke in parables) the truth that only God saves.

Where does Jesus mention wicked earthly rulers being made a ruler over His household?

Again, you do not address the scripture or the actual words that Jesus used, choosing to ignore and reject what Jesus said.


The servant who became "unfaithful" was a servant of the Lord, not an unbeliever.

• My master is delaying his coming,
• the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him

45 “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing.47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods.48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of,51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 24:45-51

• In both cases His servant's were made ruler over His household: Promoted from among the other servants.

• In both cases His servant's were in charge of distributing provision to His people.

Your theory has the Lord putting an evil unbeliever who is a servant of Satan in charge of distributing provision to His people, and thinking this evil unbeliever who is a servant of Satan will be faithful to serve Him.

Is that what you are attempting to teach us, Chessman, that Jesus made an evil unbeliever, a servant of Satan to be ruler of His people to give them food in due season?



JLB

 

[JLB]

Were the chief priest and elders at that time His people, yes or no?

• You are of your father the devil

Some were and some were not.

You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. John 8:44


JLB

 

[JLB]

Do you have any Scripture that speaks of a wandering off goat? Or is this an opinion you hold without any Scripture references to support your case?

I have scripture that teaches us a sheep, who becomes lost is a sinner who is lost, separate from Jesus, and must repent, just as an unbeliever.

Lost = Sinner who is need of repentance; dead to God, in need of salvation, reconciliation to God.
Found = Someone is is reconciled to God; saved.

• Lost Sheep:

I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:7

• Lost Coin:

Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Luke 15:10

• Prodigal Son

It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’” Luke 15:32


Same exact thing I have been saying all along.

Sheep = Faithful, hears His voice and follows Him; Found - Saved - Son of the kingdom.

Goat = Unfaithful, Lost - former son of the kingdom who is cast into hell.

• the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom

The good seeds, the wheat, are His people, His own servants.


But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:12


Now the burden is on you to show from the scriptures that it's impossible for the sons of the kingdom to be cast into hell.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Words mean what they say in context.

Matthew 25:31-33 Now when the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate them from one another like a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right and the goats on the left.
There is no context within Jesus' words here or anywhere that have Him saying, "Those on His left hand are ... His sheep"

• His people who start out as faithful then become unfaithful is the point.

• They start out as the one thing then become the other.

Jesus used sheep and goats, animals to make His point.

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

• He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

Jesus is saying He will separate His people into two groups:

1. Faithful
2. Unfaithful.

The faithful will be rewarded, and the unfaithful will be punished.

• His people who start out as faithful then become unfaithful is the point.

It's very simple, and this is what the context teaches us.

His own servants, His people, sons of the kingdom, who were faithful or unfaithful.

His own servants, His people, sons of the kingdom, wheat, all represent the same thing: Covenant People of God.

• Parable of the Talents: Kingdom of Heaven describes His people not the world.

“For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them.
Matthew 25:14

Each of these servants of the Lord, addressed Him as Lord.

• ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.
• ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.
  
• ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed.

Parable of the servant ruler:

• My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat his fellow servants
• the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him

His people, His servants, sons of the kingdom who start out as faithful, but then become unfaithful, are cast into outer darkness with the hypocrites.


But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:12

• His people who start out as faithful then become unfaithful is the point.

• They start out as the one thing then become the other.

They can start out as sheep, then become lost.

Just like the angels who are sons of God, sons of the kingdom who started out as faithful, then became disobedient, and were cast down to hell.


For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 2 Peter 2:4



JLB

 

[chessman]

Where does Jesus mention wicked earthly rulers being made a ruler over His household?

Here:

48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’

and here:

Matthew 26:1-4 And it happened that when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said to his disciples, “You know that after two days the Passover takes place, and the Son of Man will be handed over in order to be crucified.” Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, who was named Caiaphas, and plotted in order that they could arrest Jesus by stealth and kill him.​

The reason they had authority to arrest and kill Him was precisely because they'd been given that authority, indeed by God. The reason they desired to kill Him was precisely because they didn't believe He was the King of the Jews.

The reason they didn't believe was because they were of the Devil. Poof, I answered your question.

I asked; "Were the chief priest and elders at that time His people, yes or no?"

You replied:

You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do.

I'll take that as a 'yes' answer since He was speaking to those Jewish rulers who had been given authority of His household at the time. (Though a direct answer would have been better).

I asked:"Do you have any Scripture that speaks of a wandering off goat?"

You replied:

I have scripture that teaches us a sheep ...

Then I'll assume 'no'.

 

[chessman]

When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

Do you know why his (underlined in the NKJV) is in italics and not capitalized?

 

[JLB]

and here:
Matthew 26:1-4 And it happened that when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said to his disciples, “You know that after two days the Passover takes place, and the Son of Man will be handed over in order to be crucified.” Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, who was named Caiaphas, and plotted in order that they could arrest Jesus by stealth and kill him.
The reason they had authority to arrest and kill Him was precisely because they'd been given that authority, indeed by God. The reason they desired to kill Him was precisely because they didn't believe He was the King of the Jews.

The reason they didn't believe was because they were of the Devil. Poof, I answered your question.

Again you have chosen to willfully ignore the actual words of scripture, that I presented about this discussion:

You ignored what the words of Jesus said about His servants, His people, the sons of the kingdom.



His own servants, His people, sons of the kingdom, who were faithful or unfaithful.

His own servants, His people, sons of the kingdom, wheat, all represent the same thing: Covenant People of God.

• Parable of the Talents: Kingdom of Heaven describes His people not the world.

“For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them.
Matthew 25:14

Each of these servants of the Lord, addressed Him as Lord.

• ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.
• ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.
  
• ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed.

Parable of the servant ruler:

• My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat his fellow servants
• the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him

His people, His servants, sons of the kingdom who start out as faithful, but then become unfaithful, are cast into outer darkness with the hypocrites.


But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:12

• His people who start out as faithful then become unfaithful is the point.

• They start out as the one thing then become the other.

They can start out as sheep, then become lost.

Just like the angels who are sons of God, sons of the kingdom who started out as faithful, then became disobedient, and were cast down to hell.


For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 2 Peter 2:4



JLB

 

[JLB]

Do you know why his (underlined in the NKJV) is in italics and not capitalized?

I asked:"Do you have any Scripture that speaks of a wandering off goat?"

You replied:
Then I'll assume 'no'.

Were the people standing before His throne actual sheep and goats?

• You ignore the point, in favor of trying to convince us that Jesus was referring to actual sheep and goats, claiming that a sheep can not transform itself into a goat.

Jesus used sheep and goats, animals to make His point.

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

• He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

Jesus is saying He will separate His people into two groups:

1. Faithful
2. Unfaithful.

• His people who start out as faithful then become unfaithful is the point.

• They start out as the one thing then become the other.

They can start out as sheep, then become lost.

• Can a sheep become lost, by wandering off?
• Can a Christian wander from the truth, and become a sinner?

JLB

 

[chessman]

Jesus is saying He will separate His people into two groups:

I've never disagreed with your point above.

But you need to answer a simple question given what He said:

All the nations will be gathered before Him,

Is the context here on Judgment Day the judgment of "all the nations" (rulers or not) or just the judgment of Christians and your hypothetical 'ex-Christians', (sheep turned goat)?

And once again, all you need to do is answer the simple question:

Does He place any of His sheep on His left, yes or no?

 

[JLB]

I asked; "Were the chief priest and elders at that time His people, yes or no?"

You replied:
I'll take that as a 'yes' answer since He was speaking to those Jewish rulers who had been given authority of His household at the time. (Though a direct answer would have been better).

I answered you plainly and directly with scripture: Some were and some were not.

Here is post number 90 -

• You are of your father the devil

Some were and some were not.

You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. John 8:44


JLB

JLB

 

[JLB]

Does He place any of His sheep on His left, yes or no?

The answer is no.

Goats were placed on the left.

I will change what I said, to be more clear.

Those on the left were His people, His servants, sons of the kingdom, who became unfaithful, and were cast into hell.

I left out sheep this time, because that was confusing, and you were right to call me out on that point.

So because you called me out and the scripture says goats on His left, I will repent, and change what I said.


JLB

 

[chessman]

Again you have chosen to willfully ignore the actual words of scripture,

Wrong. And yet aother rule violation!

I've ignored no words of Scripture nor any of your words or points or questions either. I've addressed your point and questions (which by the way is a flat out good point!) about the parable of the talents relationship to the judgment of the sheep and goats.

From post #49:

Faithful/obedient servants are not afraid and lazy

the master knew this evil servant was evil/lazy/afraid before He left thus only entrusting him one talent to invest.

Do you think Jesus is a hard man?

From post #55 (way back):​

Matthew 25:24 And the one who had received the one talent came up also and said, ‘Master, because I knew you, that you are a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering from where you did not scatter seed.​

Where does it say they both "started out as faithful"???

Later, the one that "is" faithful and wise (not was or will be) will be put in charge of His entire household

There's a difference in being put in charge of other of His servants (who are hungry, BTW) and being put in charge of all His household. A big difference. Just like there's a big difference in being a sheep or a goat.

I DO think they (these parables) are given in the context to Jesus description of the two groups (goats/sheep) on Judgment Day. But you've not actually demonstrated that the wicked and lazy slave was ever a faithful slave (you even called him a 'believer') in the first place. And I've asked you over and over to substantiate that he was ever faithful when the Text literally says he "is" (presently) "wicked and lazy" before he ever drank with drunkerds. Which of course you just ignored.

Yes the wicked and lazy slave was given one (not two or five) of the Master's many talents and assigned (not promoted) the task of feeding His hungry slaves. (I've acknowledged that already). And he was the Master's slave, yes. So??? It doesn't support your claim.

It never says or even imples he was EVER a faithful slave to His master. And it sure doesn't imply he was saved. That's the whole point of the question Jesus asked. His parable testifies He WAS wicked and lazy even with the one talent entrusted to him. Just like the chief priests and elders were!

As for what it meant to be entrusted with one talent (versus two or five or 10):

All men in all nations are (including the chief priests and elders) given enough evidence that they should seek after God. Both sheep and goats (the people they represent, not literal animals) have been given more than ample evidence for God's existence in the things we see in nature. Some seek after the Creator further and follow His voice like sheep when He gives more, some do not seek Him at all. They are as stubborn and independent as a goat.

For other nations (like the Romans), I would refer you to Romans 1 where all goats from that nation will be without even one excuse on Judgment day. Yet the sheep there have heard His calling and have indeed been drawn to Him. And followed His voice.

For the chief priests and elders of His chosen people at that time, however, they had way more evidences given to them than simply the one seen in natural revelation. Yet they never budged toward faith in their Master. Never! Hard-headed as a billygoat, they were. And Jesus knew it and they testified to it. One day to be judged for it too.

You ignore the point, in favor of trying to convince us that Jesus was referring to actual sheep and goats, claiming that a sheep can not transform itself into a goat.

Where have I tried to convince you that Jesus was referring to actual sheep and goats??? Never!

But I wondered when your actual theology would show itself.

Is it God who transforms us (saves us) or do we transform (save) ourselves???

You realize even an atheist can and do feed hungry people, right?