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Forum Poll

Can a born again Christian reject Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and still be saved.


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JLB

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#1
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them. John 3:36 NIV


He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36



21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23

  • if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel


12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

  • we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,



Based on the above mentioned scriptures -

How many believe that a born again Christian can reject Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, in which they depart from faith in Him, and turn to the antichrist, or Allah, or some other god, and confess him as Lord and Savior, and still be saved on the Day of Judgement, when Christ returns?







JLB
 

reba

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#3
I dont see this as an ET subject. JLB how about you ask the theology forum mods if you can place it there ...
 
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#4
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them. John 3:36 NIV


He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36



21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23

  • if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel


12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

  • we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,



Based on the above mentioned scriptures -

How many believe that a born again Christian can reject Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, in which they depart from faith in Him, and turn to the antichrist, or Allah, or some other god, and confess him as Lord and Savior, and still be saved on the Day of Judgement, when Christ returns?







JLB
hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

The question that you have asked is an oxymoron. An oxymoron is a combination of contradictory words like "cruel kindness". there is no such "animal". Cruel and kindness doesn't go together. It is impossible for a "born again" Christian to become "un-born again", or depart from the faith. Christians are kept by the power of God unto "the day of redemption". There is no one that has that ability.

Another example of an oxymoron is: "Can God create a rock so heavy that he can't lift it". God is all powerful, therefore there is nothing that he can't do.
 

JLB

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#5
hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

The question that you have asked is an oxymoron. An oxymoron is a combination of contradictory words like "cruel kindness". there is no such "animal". Cruel and kindness doesn't go together. It is impossible for a "born again" Christian to become "un-born again", or depart from the faith. Christians are kept by the power of God unto "the day of redemption". There is no one that has that ability.

Another example of an oxymoron is: "Can God create a rock so heavy that he can't lift it". God is all powerful, therefore there is nothing that he can't do.
What you have stated is called a logical fallacy.

You misrepresented what I stated so as to make your representation seem true.

Straw man

By exaggerating, misrepresenting, or just completely fabricating someone's argument, it's much easier to present your own position as being reasonable, but this kind of dishonesty serves to undermine honest rational debate.
Example: After Will said that we should put more money into health and education, Warren responded by saying that he was surprised that Will hates our country so much that he wants to leave it defenceless by cutting military spending.


If you think that someone can never depart from the faith, then please explain why Paul would state this in scripture.



Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1




JLB
 

JLB

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#6
Here we go again.......
:mouthdrop:mouthdrop:mouthdrop
I would honestly like to see just how many people believe they will still be saved if they reject Jesus as Lord for another god.


Please at least answer the poll.


I would rather no one posts anything, but just answer the poll the way they believe.
 

reba

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#7
Once again this is not the proper forum for this thread..
I will close it for now... Asking once again for the Theology mods to be asked about moving it there
 
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#8
hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

The question that you have asked is an oxymoron. An oxymoron is a combination of contradictory words like "cruel kindness". there is no such "animal". Cruel and kindness doesn't go together. It is impossible for a "born again" Christian to become "un-born again", or depart from the faith. Christians are kept by the power of God unto "the day of redemption". There is no one that has that ability.

Another example of an oxymoron is: "Can God create a rock so heavy that he can't lift it". God is all powerful, therefore there is nothing that he can't do.
Very wise words, sir!
 
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#9
What you have stated is called a logical fallacy.

You misrepresented what I stated so as to make your representation seem true.
Let's see what he said:
"It is impossible for a "born again" Christian to become "un-born again", or depart from the faith."

It is truth that a born again person cannot become unborn. That's the fallacy; to assume that being born again can be undone. As dirt farmer said, "no such animal".

I take his statement of "depart from the faith" to mean leave his saved state, not to cease believing. If he believes that, I disagree.
 

JLB

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#10
Very wise words, sir!

If you think that someone can never depart from the faith, then please explain why Paul would state this in scripture.



Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1




JLB
 

JLB

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#12
It is truth that a born again person cannot become unborn.
Can you show a scripture that says it’s impossible to become un-born again.



JLB
 

JLB

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#13
A born again Christian would refuse to reject Christ simply because they ARE born again......
Is a person born again when they believe, or is there more they must do to be born again?



JLB
 

JLB

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#14
A born again Christian would refuse to reject Christ simply because they ARE born again......
If you think that someone can never depart from the faith, then please explain why Paul would state this in scripture.



Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1




JLB
 
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#15
that in the latter times some should depart from the faith; that is, from the doctrine of faith, notwithstanding it is indisputably the great mystery of godliness, as it is called in the latter part of the preceding chapter; for from the true grace of faith there can be no final and total apostasy, such as is here designed; for that can never be lost. It is of an incorruptible nature, and therefore more precious than gold that perishes; Christ is the author and finisher of it; his prevalent mediation is concerned for it; it is a gift of special grace, and is without repentance; it springs from electing grace, and is secured by it; and between that and salvation there is an inseparable connection; it may indeed decline, be very low, and lie dormant, as to its acts and exercise, but not be lost: there is a temporary faith, and a persuasion of truth, or a mere assent to it, which may be departed from, but not that faith which works by love: here it intends a profession of faith, which being made, should be dropped by some; or rather the doctrine of faith, which some would embrace, and then err concerning, or entirely quit, and wholly apostatize from. And they are said to be some, and these many, as they are elsewhere represented, though not all; for the elect cannot be finally and totally deceived; the foundation of election stands sure amidst the greatest apostasy; and there are always a few names that are not defiled with corrupt principles and practices; Christ always had some witnesses for the truth in the darkest times: and now this defection was to be "in the latter times"; either of the apostolic age, which John, the last of the apostles, lived to see; and therefore he calls it the last time, or hour, in which were many antichrists, 1Jn_2:18. And indeed in the Apostle Paul's time the mystery of iniquity began to work, which brought on this general defection; though here it has regard to some later times under the Gospel dispensation; to the time when the man of sin, and the son of perdition, was revealed, and when all the world wondered after the beast: and indeed, such will be the degeneracy in the last days of all, that when the son of man comes, as the grace, so the doctrine of faith will be scarcely to be found in the world: the means by which this apostasy will obtain and prevail will be through men's
John Gill's Exposition
 
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#16
Can you show a scripture that says it’s impossible to become un-born again.



JLB
Is there any scripture that says a returning believer must be born again again? Do they need to be re-baptized?
If you think that someone can never depart from the faith, then please explain why Paul would state this in scripture.



Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1




JLB
Paul also says:
Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Did Christ anywhere place conditions upon eternal life except to believe?
 

JLB

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#17
that in the latter times some should depart from the faith; that is, from the doctrine of faith, notwithstanding it is indisputably the great mystery of godliness, as it is called in the latter part of the preceding chapter; for from the true grace of faith there can be no final and total apostasy, such as is here designed; for that can never be lost. It is of an incorruptible nature, and therefore more precious than gold that perishes; Christ is the author and finisher of it; his prevalent mediation is concerned for it; it is a gift of special grace, and is without repentance; it springs from electing grace, and is secured by it; and between that and salvation there is an inseparable connection; it may indeed decline, be very low, and lie dormant, as to its acts and exercise, but not be lost: there is a temporary faith, and a persuasion of truth, or a mere assent to it, which may be departed from, but not that faith which works by love: here it intends a profession of faith, which being made, should be dropped by some; or rather the doctrine of faith, which some would embrace, and then err concerning, or entirely quit, and wholly apostatize from. And they are said to be some, and these many, as they are elsewhere represented, though not all; for the elect cannot be finally and totally deceived; the foundation of election stands sure amidst the greatest apostasy; and there are always a few names that are not defiled with corrupt principles and practices; Christ always had some witnesses for the truth in the darkest times: and now this defection was to be "in the latter times"; either of the apostolic age, which John, the last of the apostles, lived to see; and therefore he calls it the last time, or hour, in which were many antichrists, 1Jn_2:18. And indeed in the Apostle Paul's time the mystery of iniquity began to work, which brought on this general defection; though here it has regard to some later times under the Gospel dispensation; to the time when the man of sin, and the son of perdition, was revealed, and when all the world wondered after the beast: and indeed, such will be the degeneracy in the last days of all, that when the son of man comes, as the grace, so the doctrine of faith will be scarcely to be found in the world: the means by which this apostasy will obtain and prevail will be through men's
John Gill's Exposition
Quoting someone else’s opinion in the face of scripture doesn’t help your cause.


The context shows us that faith in Christ is what Paul is stating, since there is no other faith, but that which is from God.


13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
14 These things I write to you, though I hope to come to you shortly; 15 but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:

God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Timothy 3:13-4:1


Furthermore as the OP states, from Hebrews 3 which says -


12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

  • lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God

We must hold the beginning of our faith, steadfast to the end, in order to be a partaker of Christ, and not depart from Him.



JLB
 

JLB

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#18
Is there any scripture that says a returning believer must be born again again? Do they need to be re-baptized?
First, show me the scripture that says it’s impossible for a person to be
un-born again, since that was your claim.


JLB
 
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#19
The context shows us that faith in Christ is what Paul is stating, since there is no other faith, but that which is from God.
The context does not say that which is why I highlighted it.
for from the true grace of faith there can be no final and total apostasy, such as is here designed; for that can never be lost.
 
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#20
First, show me the scripture that says it’s impossible for a person to be
un-born again, since that was your claim.


JLB
That is not my claim. It is they were never born again in the first place but of that we cannot be sure since it is between them and God.
Now, you claim people can lose their salvation and others say they cannot and both quote scripture to support their position.....so who is correct?
 
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