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Forum Poll

Can a born again Christian reject Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and still be saved.


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Here is the poll question.

Can a born again Christian reject Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and still be saved.


You answered yes.


My question was Why do you believe a born again Christian can reject Jesus Christ and still be saved?



Then why did you answer yes?

What makes you think a born again Christian, could never turn to the antichrist and take his mark, and worship him?

Is their something stopping him from doing this?


9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:9-12





If they weren't born again, then the question doesn't apply to them.




Then they are not born again, and this doesn't apply to them.




ME
Maria , I was once invited to a Californian Church to hear out an incredibly brilliant teacher from India, who had exceptional teaching and oratory skills who was going to be the guest speaker at the Church. The excitement to hear that man out was incredible. Curious to know what he would teach I went to that Christian Church. Plus the people who had invited me were very kind people. Couldn't say no. That guy was indeed a brilliant orator. He knew when to increase and decrease the pitch. Plus he had vast knowledge of the scripture as he heaped verses after verses upon the audience-- us. Here is where the good stops. That man, in my opinion, was thundering at the pulpit ONLY to USE verses for the audience to DONATE generously, magnanimously, freely to his organization.... all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. I was utterly shocked by this disgraceful act. But the funny thing is the thousand-odd people sitting there believed everything that man was saying as scriptural, because it was. they FAILED to see that those parts of scriptures were being used which would help this man glorify himself and get his mission accomplished --- walk away with loads of money----- which he did. When he had delivered the "powerful message" he took cash, checks and even credit cards! and walked away with lots of money from the "awe-inspired crowd" who were cheering him wildly when he walked off with the " booty"
See guys I'm NOT here to criticize the man( false prophet?). I'm just answering the question..... WILL THIS MAN BE JUDGED or SAVED for his faith? and beyond faith, he was a pastor and a teacher! see friends easy believism doctrine is fraught with danger--- a wolf in the garb of a sheep came and ravaged the people, who had no doubt that this man was saved because he believed. had they been taught what James taught that ( James 2: 14-22) that Faith without works is dead--- no salvation without obedience, I'm confident this man would have been questioned/ grilled by the audience. But nobody asked anything. They were too scared to. they all believed and so did this man. everyone believed and would allbe going to heaven. 'Why should we say or ask anything?"
Summarizing my answer, I strongly believe all the "saved" ones who serve the enemy rather than the Lord in spite of being believers risk losing their salvation "
This is why James writes ( James 2: 14-22) that Faith without works is dead

14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food,16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[a] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works
 
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All of our works are nothing more than what is our duty to do. (Luke 17:5-10) Therefore, God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy. (Exodus 33:19 and Romans 9:15) He doens't owe us anything, including salvation. Whoever is saved is saved purely by the Grace of God. Jesus, Paul, Peter, and so on said we can be saved if we believe but it is not guaranteed by our believing, is it? It is still purely God's choice. We are never in a position to boast even for believing. (Ephesians 2:9)
God chooses ALL to be saved. But He won't until we believe.
Believing is like eating or drinking. There is no merit in believing in Christ for salvation. That is how everybody is saved. Who can boast about believing? Nobody, that is what everyone does to be saved. Christ is the merit in salvation.
You are correct he doesn't owe us anything. But after His of gift salvation, he promises to reward good behavior.......now that has to be from God. Satan nor any of us would ever come up with that Idea.

This world tells us," work for yours!" Nothings for free!

Here Comes the Lord Jesus Christ and says simply believe/trust in me and I will give you a FREE gift. Not only that, I will bless you and reward you for Glorifying me! And we don't deserve any of it.


Now THAT is out of this world. This world would NEVER teach that.
 
You quote a bunch of verses FG. Yet you don't give a clear reply WHY Christ neither told the RICH MAN ( Mark 10:17) , nor the Expert of Law (Luke 10:25) when they asked Christ what they must do to inherit eternal life. Christ " fails " to mention simple words-- BELIEVE IN ME and you WILL BE SAVED. Most "surprisingly" He does NOT. WHY? Didn't he think easy believism doctrine was good enough for human salvation?
Please quote in CONTEXT and NOT other verses -- especially of apostle Paul. Remember the two men who asked the question had no means to see what Paul was going to write in the future ( from their perspective). They both ask a very simple straightforward question, and Jesus, in turn, gave them a simple, straightforward answer. Can I have an explanation from easy believers why Christ refrained from mentioning believe in me? He pointed more at obedience in my opinion. And if that's the case why must I believe the doctrine of " you believe and you're saved" being taught liberally across the country. if the head of the Church Christ Himself didn't tell these two gentlemen who asked of Him what they must do to be saved, how can contemporary teachers of God's word teach that belief instead will save? ( No obedience needed. Nothing needed really)
We need to understand that throughout the gospels Christ was dealing with Israel. They knew God. They were looking forward to a Messiah for their salvation. They had first hand experience(signs & wonders) of God.

The gentiles had no clue of a Messiah and that they needed to be saved. Israel understood this concept and they were supposed to be bringing this gospel to the gentiles..........they failed and didn't bring it to the "dirty dogs."

So many,many times throughout the Gospels The Lord Jesus Christ was dealing with hard hearted Jews who knew the scriptures, knew about a coming Messiah and that they needed to be saved. So Jesus was witnessing, many times, to hard hearted Jews that KNEW he was coming. And they would not come to Him.

The Jews already KNEW they needed to believe in the Messiah. They Just didn't believe the Lord Jesus Christ was the Messiah. So The Lord did His level best to convince these hard hearted Jews that He WAS their Messiah.

That is why we see a difference in witnessing. The Gentiles were in the dark. Israel knew that they needed to believe on the Messiah for salvation. They didn't believe Jesus Christ was the ONE.

The Gentiles had not a clue(Israel's duty was to witness this fact to them.) and they failed.
 
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God chooses ALL to be saved. But He won't until we believe.
Believing is like eating or drinking. There is no merit in believing in Christ for salvation. That is how everybody is saved. Who can boast about believing? Nobody, that is what everyone does to be saved. Christ is the merit in salvation.
You are correct he doesn't owe us anything. But after His of gift salvation, he promises to reward good behavior.......now that has to be from God. Satan nor any of us would ever come up with that Idea.

This world tells us," work for yours!" Nothings for free!

Here Comes the Lord Jesus Christ and says simply believe/trust in me and I will give you a FREE gift. Not only that, I will bless you and reward you for Glorifying me! And we don't deserve any of it.


Now THAT is out of this world. This world would NEVER teach that.
But why didn't he tell BELIEVE IN ME ( to be saved) to the rich and the Expert of law (Mark 10: 17)( Luke 10: 2-16:17)--- if all it took to getting saved was BELEVING. was Christ incorrect in saying when and what he said to these above two gentlemen?
 
We need to understand that throughout the gospels Christ was dealing with Israel. They knew God. They were looking forward to a Messiah for their salvation. They had first hand experience(signs & wonders) of God.

The gentiles had no clue of a Messiah and that they needed to be saved. Israel understood this concept and they were supposed to be bringing this gospel to the gentiles..........they failed and didn't bring it to the "dirty dogs."

So many,many times throughout the Gospels The Lord Jesus Christ was dealing with hard hearted Jews who knew the scriptures, knew about a coming Messiah and that they needed to be saved. So Jesus was witnessing, many times, to hard hearted Jews that KNEW he was coming. And they would not come to Him.

we don't see the call to believe in the Gospels like the Epistles because the Jews already KNEW they needed to believe in the Messiah. They Just didn't believe the Lord Jesus Christ was the Messiah. So The Lord did His level best to convince these hard hearted Jews that He WAS their Messiah.

That is why we see a difference in witnessing. The Gentiles were in the dark. Israel knew that they needed to believe on the Messiah for salvation. They didn't believe Jesus Christ was the ONE.

The Gentiles had not a clue(Israel's duty was to witness this fact to them.) and they failed.
Your answer suggests Christ was telling well informed Jews they will be saved by obedience to the Law ( no belief in Messiah required)...

So to jews, he was teaching different salvation conditions and gentiles different ( Belief). Right?
 
Your answer suggests Christ was telling well informed Jews they will be saved by obedience to the Law ( no belief in Messiah required)...

So to jews, he was teaching different salvation conditions and gentiles different ( Belief). Right?

There is no difference in salvation. Every person who is saved........believes on the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation. There is NO other way.

We just see different witnessing methods in His word. The Jews were looking forward to THEIR coming Messiah. And they KNEW they had to believe on Him for their salvation. They were well schooled in that department. So Christ was more focused on convincing them that He was THAT Messiah.

Gentiles had to be taught and told about salvation........Jesus Christ is the Messiah and the mechanics behind being saved is BELIEVING on him.<<<<<<Israel KNEW this.

The Jews Knew they need to believe in a Messiah. So with Israel, he was more concerned about convincing them that He WAS their Messiah.
 
There is no difference in salvation. Every person who is saved........believes on the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation. There is NO other way.

We just see different witnessing methods in His word. The Jews were looking forward to THEIR coming Messiah. And they KNEW they had to believe on Him for their salvation. They were well schooled in that department. So Christ was more focused on convincing them that He was THAT Messiah.

Gentiles had to be taught and told about salvation........Jesus Christ is the Messiah and the mechanics behind being saved is BELIEVING on him.<<<<<<Israel KNEW this.

The Jews Knew they need to believe in a Messiah. So with Israel, he was more concerned about convincing them that He WAS their Messiah.
So did Christ assume these two Jews already believed in Him as Messiah and all they needed now was to obey? Because Christ clearly points at obedience in both parables
 
So did Christ assume these two Jews already believed in Him as Messiah and all they needed now was to obey? Because Christ clearly points at obedience in both parables

First of all The Lord Jesus Christ does not have to 'assume.' He KNOWS.

And how did these 2 people address the Lord Jesus Christ? Who did these 2 people think the Lord Jesus Christ was?

If you can answer this................It gives a little insight to what these 2 people were thinking.
 
At least the expert in law guy was probably not a believer , since Luke 10: 25 clearly states he was "testing" Christ. Bible gives no information whether the rich man believed in Christ or not. But it does reveal he didn't wish to give up his riches and follow Him
 
At least the expert in law guy was probably not a believer , since Luke 10: 25 clearly states he was "testing" Christ. Bible gives no information whether the rich man believed in Christ or not. But it does reveal he didn't wish to give up his riches and follow Him

Neither one addressed Him as The Lord Jesus Christ.
 
So did Christ assume these two Jews already believed in Him as Messiah and all they needed now was to obey? Because Christ clearly points at obedience in both parables
If you do hold the truth to salvation........It is incumbent upon you to tell us how to be saved. You are to evangelize the world.

How many times can I fail?
How much fruit do I need to produce?
If I miss a sin and don't repent am I a goner?
If I still don't hate my mom am I lost?
If I sin once a day,once a week,once a month, once a year am I a goner?
If I follow 601 of the Laws?


How can we be saved? If you hold the truth to salvation give us the EXACT details please. I would like to be saved if it is not through faith in Christ.
 
Neither one addressed Him as The Lord Jesus Christ.
yes, you're right . Neither probably believed. That should have prompted Christ to tell them BELIEVE and you will be saved. Yet the Lord elected to NOT do it. Instead, He pointed at obedience of law for their salvation
 
Here is the poll question.

Can a born again Christian reject Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and still be saved.


You answered yes.


My question was Why do you believe a born again Christian can reject Jesus Christ and still be saved?



Then why did you answer yes?

What makes you think a born again Christian, could never turn to the antichrist and take his mark, and worship him?

Is their something stopping him from doing this?


9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:9-12





If they weren't born again, then the question doesn't apply to them.




Then they are not born again, and this doesn't apply to them.




ME
And I don't believe a born again Christian can reject Jesus Christ and still be saved because I don't believe a spirit filled, regenerated, born from above believer would reject Jesus ever. I believe a false believer, one who claimed to believe but really didn't, would act the part but walk away because they never were among us (believers). Many people have a very shallow belief. It's weak. It's not authentic. Those people aren't believers but they look as if they are.
 
yes, you're right . Neither probably believed. That should have prompted Christ to tell them BELIEVE and you will be saved. Yet the Lord elected to NOT do it. Instead, He pointed at obedience of law for their salvation
Of course he pointed at obedience to law for these 2 individuals. The law reveal's that we are sinners and the law CANNOT save. And they both were relying on their obedience to it. They both already KNEW that they needed to believe in A Messiah. And The Lord Jesus Christ was there showing them that He is the Messiah.

If they went from "teacher" to "my God and my Savior" what do you think The Lord would have said to them?
 
If you do hold the truth to salvation........It is incumbent upon you to tell us how to be saved. You are to evangelize the world.

How many times can I fail?
How much fruit do I need to produce?
If I miss a sin and don't repent am a goner?
If I still don't hate my mom am I lost?
If I sin once a day,once a week,once a month, once a year am I a goner?
If I follow 601 of the Laws?


How can we be saved? If you hold the truth to salvation give us the EXACT details, please. I would like to be saved if it is not through faith in Christ.
I believe we have to do what James teaches in James 2: 14-22.
I also believe Christ laid the terms of salvation in His own words in Matthew 28: 18-20 --the great commission of the Lord
Matthew 28:18-20

"Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

To me its pretty evident Lord wants all the three from us----- Faith, Baptism, Obedience--- if we want Him (in his own words) to be with us forever " surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age".

For many years I also believed in easy beleivism doctrine , but deep in my heart I was puzzled-- how can this be. you believe and you're saved. Christ was repeatedly emphasizing on obedience. father God Himself also the same thing. Adam and Eve were banished from the garden of Eden for wilful disobedience and curse came on entire mankind. We must also remember Adam and Eve were NOT under O.T Law.
I also remembered Jesus said he came to FULFILL the law and NOT abolish it (Matthew 5: 17)
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them
As late as October 2017 the coin finally dropped. I suddenly realized I was fed with heretical ( IMO) doctrine of easy believism for years by the church i was going to and which thousands of other Churches are also teaching. I believe the reason they do this is, they just wish to do the easy part of salvation doctrine ( believe and get baptized) ---the hard part is OBEDIENCE, which had suddenly became a hindrance in their salvation hope and therefore they started deceiving themselves by believing and teaching that BELIEVE AND YOU SHALL BE SAVED doctrine. When I questioned their doctrine I was suddenly not liked. They became unfriendly. I was raining on their party. they didn't want obedience to have anything to do to be saved. Believing was sufficient. But to me that was like a body without soul ( belief without obedience).
Plus who knows except Lord Christ whose names appear in Lamb's book of life ( In Revelation 13:8 and 21:27)? how were many Churches guaranteeing salvation?
I end with these words of our dear member Wondering which captures the gist of salvation doctrine
"Believe and do our best, and leave to the Lord the rest"
The prince of peace who is Christ, the merciful and compassionate King, do you think such a compassionate LOVING merciful Lord we have will let us out of His hands even if we fail to be obedient completely ( nobody can be). Its when we at least try to be obedient that His grace and righteousness is imputed to us believers. It's only those who are believers but are living out a sinful life believing they are saved are the ones who risk judgment. Finally, i believe Lords love and grace is greater than our sinfulness... let us at least try to follow Him-- God of peace compassion mercy and Love--- if we believe in Him
I hope I have been able to answer your question brother.
summarizing it all-- this is what I believe the Bible teaches on salvation:
No amount of obedience/works will save us without FAITH in Christ as savior---that's paramount .
And no amount of FAITH will save us either should we willfully choose to live in sin in spite of choosing Christ as savior (Hebrews 6:5-6)
 
Of course he pointed at obedience to law for these 2 individuals. The law reveal's that we are sinners and the law CANNOT save. And they both were relying on their obedience to it. They both already KNEW that they needed to believe in A Messiah. And The Lord Jesus Christ was there showing them that He is the Messiah.

If they went from "teacher" to "my God and my Savior" what do you think The Lord would have said to them?
Both were needed --- Faith and obedience --- that's why Christ said what he said to the two Jewish gentlemen. the same thing applies to us and all who wish to follow Christ --- FAITH and Obedience. I really like what Papa Zoom quoted in His very recent post. I believe these words of apostle paul capture the expectation of Lord from us--- LO, THE TRUE SALVATION DOCTRINE! the doctrine of grace mercy salvation and LOVE

Colossians 2:6 AMP Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, walk in [union with] Him [reflecting His character in the things you do and say--living lives that lead others away from sin],7 having been deeply rooted [in Him] and now being continually built up in Him and [becoming increasingly more] established Or by.in your faith, just as you were taught, and overflowing in it with gratitude.
Colossians 2: 13 And, while you were dead in trespasses and in your foreskin of flesh, he gave you life along with him, forgiving all trespasses, 14 Expunging what is written by hand against us—contrary to us—in ordinances, and has removed it, out of the way, nailing it to the cross;
 
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Yes.

It is a work/fruit/thinking/motivation that is done through the filling of the Spirit.
Everything I do involves the spirit when I do a good work.
Before being born again, I might have done the same thing but not into God.
Now I do it for God.

I'll start a thread...
Apologetics?
 
It will make sense to you if you are alive when the antichrist is revealed, and you have to make the choice to reject him, and continue to believe in Jesus as Messiah, or to reject Jesus and turn to the antichrist, to receive his mark and worship him.

I’m pretty sure The Son was and is aware of antichrist worship going on then, now and in the last day. Yet He had no problem making the Truth claims about Jesus lovers that He did:

If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. And My Father will love him. And We will come to him. And We will make a place-to-stay with him.John 14:23​

I noticed Rev 14:9-12 doesn’t say anything about a Christ lover (a saint) rejecting Christ and worshipping antichrist. Quite the opposite is stated. And it even tells us why that’s the case. To GOD be all glory.

12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:9-12

Amen. The faith of Jesus, now that’s some kinda faith to possess! May you prove Jesus was right and that anyone who loves Him (including those saints living in the last day), will, in fact, keep His word.
p.s. thanks for the dialogue and answers to my straight forward questions.
 
And I don't believe a born again Christian can reject Jesus Christ and still be saved because I don't believe a spirit filled, regenerated, born from above believer would reject Jesus ever. I believe a false believer, one who claimed to believe but really didn't, would act the part but walk away because they never were among us (believers). Many people have a very shallow belief. It's weak. It's not authentic. Those people aren't believers but they look as if they are.
So how is this assurance of salvation? Even the most dedicated believer could potentially find out under time of severe diress that they too were only a false believer.
 
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