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Well, loosing faith is not trivial.
Sometimes we might trust less, this is human.
No. Jesus said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28 He gave no conditions to recipients of eternal life in order to never perish.
I've explained EVERY verse you've tried to force as supporting OSNAS.
On the contrary, I've yet to see any exegesis of John 10:28.
Describing v.27 isn't exegesis of v.28.
Again, I've explained every verse you've given.
And here's the fallacy. v.28 says MUCH MORE THAN He "only" gives eternal life. After saying He gives them eternal life, Jesus said "and they shall never perish".
So, there are NO CONDITIONS for recipients of eternal life in order to never perish.
I have. I still wonder why anyone would think that John 10:27-28 "only" says that Jesus gives eternal life, when it says so much more.
chessman
Member
Which is why the word Paul wrote to Timothy in a trustworthy saying about times of having less faith (faithless), not about being unfaithful (not faithful).
YES!
Now, a simple question for you:
How many conditions did Jesus list in John 10:28 in order for recipients of eternal life to never perish? 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, or just name the individual conditions.
Every time it's been asked, I've answered it.
Now, I am hoping for an answer to my question.
That's exactly what He said.
Well, we'll see.
[edited] Jesus said in v.25: "I told you, and you DO NOT BELIEVE." That's the key. Not hearing and following. From v.27, Jesus was describing what His sheep DO; that is, they hear Him and follow Him. These 2 things are NOT said to be conditions for anything.
Even a casual reading of the verse shows that.
v.28 is real clear. Jesus is the One who gives eternal life, and those He gives eternal life shall never perish.
If there were conditions for recipients to meet in order to never perish, Jesus would HAVE HAD TO mention them in v.28 for it to be a true statement.
So, how many conditions did Jesus mention in v.28 in order to never perish?
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Kidron
Member
A Thread with 20 pages revealing that many people, not all, but many are frantically trying to substitute their own self righteousness for the Blood of Jesus, to keep themselves saved.
Thats very interesting.
And why does this happen?
Well, some are just taught wrong, believed it, have become hardened in their theological mind, and will never recover as truth has no way to get past the wall of theological deceit that has deceived them.
But for many, its just a very simple confusion, which takes a bit of explaining.
Which is.....they do not understand that Salvation and Discipleship, are NOT the same.
They have linked them, and trust that BOTH are necessary to be saved and to stay saved.
So....lets look..
Salvation, is what God did for you, He saved you, you became born again, and all of this is NONE OF YOU< and strictly caused by the Blood Atonement.
The Atonement, is the . AT - ONE - MENT......that is, we are become ONE with God, based on God solving our SIN issue.
That is the finished work of the Cross, which is, to restore our sinless condition by the sacrifice of Jesus for our sins, and then God gives us His Righteousness, ("the gift of righteousness",) all in place of our sin, that JESUS TOOK upon himself, = thus, freeing us eternally from the judgment due us.
All a hell bound lost sinner is, is a person who has not had the Judgment for their sins removed from them, by the Blood of Jesus.
Which IS, Salvation and Eternal life.
This is why you, if you are born again, will never face judgment for your sin after you die, and that is because Jesus has faced it for you while you were alive.
Get THAT !!!
God can't judge you in eternity, for what He has already Judged Jesus FOR< ...... when you were saved.
Your SIN, will never slay Christ on the Cross and also find you in Hell, judged, in eternity.
Its the story of the woman who is in the field and there is a fire in the field 100 yard away, behind her, that is being pushed by the wind toward her at 25mph.
She can't outrun it, and its coming.....she is going to BURN unless this is solved.
So, she take her matches, and lights a fire on the ground, and this fire takes off and spreads and spreads and spreads, and soon, its burned all in front of her, as the wind took this fire and pushed it
So, as the approaching flames behind her are getting near, she simply walks into the area of already burned, that she caused, and stands in the middle of this wide and now vast area of burned out black field.
Now, when the approaching fire gets to her, it cant touch her, as there is nothing left for it to burn, so she is safe where she is standing.
And just As God's judgment is coming for the lost, it wont touch the redeemed because the blood of Christ is where they are STANDING and can't be HARMED or JUDGED or LOST or Burned.
God's judgement, does not burn twice, the same, and it has already burned the One on the cross, (in your place) and that is where you are standing, and now your are safe and sound and that for eternity.
So, once the sin issue was resolved, (The Cross) (Salvation) hell was omitted-deleted from your eternity, as hell is for the sin bearer, and not for the atoned-redeemed.
Christ rejectors (sin bearers) cannot go to heaven, and Christ's redeemed cannot go to hell.
This is the eternal work of redemption, this is the result of the Blood of Jesus and God's very Righteousness being applied to you.
And always remember, Jesus's blood was shed 2000 years ago, yet, its power to forgive and pardon , reaches into the future, and continues.
And why, ?...Its because this is the effect of GOD's BLOOD, continuing to atone, which IS redemption.
You...... have no part in that, as you can't save yourself, because you can't pay for your own sins.., as your BLOOD is not worthy.
Following that, you are to live as person who has become a member of God's family.
This is discipleship.......
You dont do it to become, and you dont do it to keep from losing this position, as how can you lose what you didnt cause?
Here is something to consider, if you are a person who is convinced that your eternal life, your salvation, is kept or lost by your lifestyle.
Let me ask you this..
Is it possible to live for God, and serve him the best you know how, and be acquainted with the concepts of the 10 commandments, and be a faithful churchgoer, and work with orphans, and give to the poor, and die and go to hell like a bullet?
Yes.
And many will, and many have.
And why?....because they are good disciples, they are good religious people, but they are not born again.
So, you can be religious, you can be a disciple, and not be saved.
You can be a very good disciple of God, of Christ, and not be redeemed,....but, you cannot be redeemed and be lost, as you can only be lost if the Blood of Jesus and God's righteousness, has not been applied to your sins, and to you.
Discipleship without Salvation is self righteousness, is RELIGION, and many have this issue.
You can have Discipleship without Jesus's blood being shed for you, but you can't have Jesus blood being shed for you, without being saved for eternity because of ITS Effect.
Thats very interesting.
And why does this happen?
Well, some are just taught wrong, believed it, have become hardened in their theological mind, and will never recover as truth has no way to get past the wall of theological deceit that has deceived them.
But for many, its just a very simple confusion, which takes a bit of explaining.
Which is.....they do not understand that Salvation and Discipleship, are NOT the same.
They have linked them, and trust that BOTH are necessary to be saved and to stay saved.
So....lets look..
Salvation, is what God did for you, He saved you, you became born again, and all of this is NONE OF YOU< and strictly caused by the Blood Atonement.
The Atonement, is the . AT - ONE - MENT......that is, we are become ONE with God, based on God solving our SIN issue.
That is the finished work of the Cross, which is, to restore our sinless condition by the sacrifice of Jesus for our sins, and then God gives us His Righteousness, ("the gift of righteousness",) all in place of our sin, that JESUS TOOK upon himself, = thus, freeing us eternally from the judgment due us.
All a hell bound lost sinner is, is a person who has not had the Judgment for their sins removed from them, by the Blood of Jesus.
Which IS, Salvation and Eternal life.
This is why you, if you are born again, will never face judgment for your sin after you die, and that is because Jesus has faced it for you while you were alive.
Get THAT !!!
God can't judge you in eternity, for what He has already Judged Jesus FOR< ...... when you were saved.
Your SIN, will never slay Christ on the Cross and also find you in Hell, judged, in eternity.
Its the story of the woman who is in the field and there is a fire in the field 100 yard away, behind her, that is being pushed by the wind toward her at 25mph.
She can't outrun it, and its coming.....she is going to BURN unless this is solved.
So, she take her matches, and lights a fire on the ground, and this fire takes off and spreads and spreads and spreads, and soon, its burned all in front of her, as the wind took this fire and pushed it
So, as the approaching flames behind her are getting near, she simply walks into the area of already burned, that she caused, and stands in the middle of this wide and now vast area of burned out black field.
Now, when the approaching fire gets to her, it cant touch her, as there is nothing left for it to burn, so she is safe where she is standing.
And just As God's judgment is coming for the lost, it wont touch the redeemed because the blood of Christ is where they are STANDING and can't be HARMED or JUDGED or LOST or Burned.
God's judgement, does not burn twice, the same, and it has already burned the One on the cross, (in your place) and that is where you are standing, and now your are safe and sound and that for eternity.
So, once the sin issue was resolved, (The Cross) (Salvation) hell was omitted-deleted from your eternity, as hell is for the sin bearer, and not for the atoned-redeemed.
Christ rejectors (sin bearers) cannot go to heaven, and Christ's redeemed cannot go to hell.
This is the eternal work of redemption, this is the result of the Blood of Jesus and God's very Righteousness being applied to you.
And always remember, Jesus's blood was shed 2000 years ago, yet, its power to forgive and pardon , reaches into the future, and continues.
And why, ?...Its because this is the effect of GOD's BLOOD, continuing to atone, which IS redemption.
You...... have no part in that, as you can't save yourself, because you can't pay for your own sins.., as your BLOOD is not worthy.
Following that, you are to live as person who has become a member of God's family.
This is discipleship.......
You dont do it to become, and you dont do it to keep from losing this position, as how can you lose what you didnt cause?
Here is something to consider, if you are a person who is convinced that your eternal life, your salvation, is kept or lost by your lifestyle.
Let me ask you this..
Is it possible to live for God, and serve him the best you know how, and be acquainted with the concepts of the 10 commandments, and be a faithful churchgoer, and work with orphans, and give to the poor, and die and go to hell like a bullet?
Yes.
And many will, and many have.
And why?....because they are good disciples, they are good religious people, but they are not born again.
So, you can be religious, you can be a disciple, and not be saved.
You can be a very good disciple of God, of Christ, and not be redeemed,....but, you cannot be redeemed and be lost, as you can only be lost if the Blood of Jesus and God's righteousness, has not been applied to your sins, and to you.
Discipleship without Salvation is self righteousness, is RELIGION, and many have this issue.
You can have Discipleship without Jesus's blood being shed for you, but you can't have Jesus blood being shed for you, without being saved for eternity because of ITS Effect.
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chessman
Member
And God said, “Let there be light!” And there was light.
Genesis 1:3 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Genesis 1:3&version=LEB
Simple, direct, perfectly believable⬆
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 1:1&version=LEBSimple, direct, perfectly believable⬆
My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
John 10:27 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 10:27&version=LEBSimple, direct, perfectly believable⬆ by His sheep.
Great post!
What say you about that school of thought that thinks eternal salvation is a myth? And that we can lose our salvation by sinning, or not pleasing God?
Rajesh Sahu
2024 Supporter
I believe what you've declared here is erroneous and biblically inconsistent. The following verses clearly tells us every human , Christian or otherwise will be judged:
I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. (Revelation 20:12)
Romans 2:6 ►
God "will repay each person according to what they have done."
And let's see what Lord Himself says in Revelation 22:12
"Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.
What do you say to John , Paul's and Christ's words?
And let's see what Lord Himself says in Revelation 22:12
"Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.
What do you say to John , Paul's and Christ's words?
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Rajesh Sahu
2024 Supporter
What you say is true but only partially. Christ's grace and righteousness is imputed only to those who:
1) have REPENTANT faith
2) who place God's will over theirs
If Christ's blood on the cross covered every human who believed in Jesus ( and did nothing more) , why did Jesus issue a Stern warning to Christians ( and everyone else)
Matthew 7:19 ►
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Rajesh Sahu
2024 Supporter
By repeatedly being taught heretical teaching rampant in churches nowadays that you're saved by faith alone doctrine , most Christians have become unproductive, ineffective and often times sinful , since their pastors and teachers and those who believe in easy believism doctrine have assured them repeatedly that " nothing can take your salvation away away" . This great security encourages several believers to not pay much importnce to sinful words and deeds since it cannot come in the way of salvation. Guys do you see the deception that is going on here ? if anyone is ecstatic about the easy believsm doctrine it's the devil! For even he and his gang of demons BELIEVE , but is even one of them obedient to Christ?
My friends let us overcome this deception. The difficult part of the message ----obedience ----was conveniently removed to achieve easy salvation through simple belief in Christ as savior . This is nothing but HERESY. Throughout Christ's teaching, obedience is of huge n vital importance .
For getting saved we need all three---- Faith, Baptism, Obedience ( Matthew 28: 18-20). Even then only God and His lamb know who all will be saved. Not one human knows that. Nobody can guarantee salvation. Else that person is replacing Christ with himself.
Only those who do God's will over theirs will have the best chance . Christ never ever did His will but of the one who sent Him
My friends let us overcome this deception. The difficult part of the message ----obedience ----was conveniently removed to achieve easy salvation through simple belief in Christ as savior . This is nothing but HERESY. Throughout Christ's teaching, obedience is of huge n vital importance .
For getting saved we need all three---- Faith, Baptism, Obedience ( Matthew 28: 18-20). Even then only God and His lamb know who all will be saved. Not one human knows that. Nobody can guarantee salvation. Else that person is replacing Christ with himself.
Only those who do God's will over theirs will have the best chance . Christ never ever did His will but of the one who sent Him
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Of course every person will be judged; believer and unbeliever. But why should anyone think that such judgment will be only for final destination?
Why can't one accept that believers will be judged on their behaviors for either reward or loss of reward? Why is that missing from OSNAS doctrine?
Eph 6:8 - because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.
So, while your statement about everyone being judged is correct, the issue is being judged FOR WHAT PURPOSE.
So, what are unbelievers going to be judged FOR? Certainly not for their sins. Because Christ died for all sins. Rev 20:11-15 reveals WHY unbelievers are going to be cast into the lake of fire. Their names are not in the book of life. They didn't accept the free gift of eternal life.
So, why are they judged according to their deeds? To determine how "bearable" or "tolerable" it will be for them in the lake of fire.
Jesus made this clear in several verses when He compared the ancient and evil cities of Sodom and Gomorrah with contemporary cities of His time, and He said it will be more bearable for S & G than the contemporary cities.
Matt 10:15, 11:22, 24, Luke 10:12,14
There is no other kind. In order to place one's faith in Christ for salvation, one MUST change their mind (repent) of what they believe. iow, changing their belief.
This falls under the umbrella of works or deeds. And, yes, believers will be judged according to their works, per 2 Cor 5:10.
This is a bold claim that a believer will lose salvation based on lack of fruit. Really? What they will lose is reward.
2 John 8 - Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully.
It was Paul who described eternal life as a gift of God in Rom 6:23, and then wrote that God's gifts are irrevocable. He then went on to write that even what happens in the future will NOT separate the saved person from the love of Christ in Rom 8:38.
Neither Jesus nor Paul even hinted that salvation could be lost.
Jesus guaranteed salvation. John 10:28, the single BEST verse that clearly states eternal security.
The second sentence above doesn't make sense. It seems the point is that individuals themselves are guaranteeing salvation. Nothing could be further from the truth. All who believe in eternal security, which Jesus taught, believe in it because of what Jesus taught.
OK, so now it comes down to a "best chance" for salvation? Really?
God's plan of salvation for humanity has NOTHING to do with chance. Good heavens!
God's plan of salvation for humanity has EVERYTHING to do with God's GRACE and man's non-meritorious response of receiving the free gift of eternal life by faith in Christ.
chessman
Member
No they don’t. The Text says John say “the dead” standing before the Throne. Christians have been made alive in Christ, we are not dead in sin.
But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, and we being dead in trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ (by grace you are saved), and raised us together and seated us together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, in order that he might show in the coming ages the surpassing riches of his grace in kindness upon us in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 2:4-7 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Ephesians 2:4-7&version=LEBRom 2:6 is similarly about at all about judging those who are in Christ, but rather is there for those men who are “without excuse”:
Therefore you are without excuse, O man, every one of you who passes judgment. For in that which you pass judgment on someone else, you condemn yourself, for you who are passing judgment are doing the same things.
Romans 2:1 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 2:1&version=LEB
You haven't replied to the list of conditions I posted.
You've been listening to YouTube.
I've been checking it out lately.
The silliness I find there is appauling.
To think that Jesus died for these false teachers.
They will have much to answer for.
Salvation and discipleship go hand in hand.
If you are not a disciple, you are not a follower of Jesus.
If you are not a follower of Jesus, you are not saved.
He did not come to abolish the law, but to complete it.
Mathew 5:17
Luke 6:40
Mathew 28:20
2 Timothy 4:3-4
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I guess what I said was missed:
"Jesus said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28 He gave no conditions to recipients of eternal life in order to never perish."
So, how many conditions did Jesus list in order for recipients not to perish can be found in John 10:28? None.
Here's what Jesus meant. He gives eternal life to His sheep, who have been previously identified as believers in Him: Jn 3:15,16,36, 5:24, 6:40,47. And as a result of being given eternal life, the RESULT of being a recipient of eternal life, they shall never perish.
I know OSNAS doesn't believe this.
So, please explain how John 10:28 doesn't really say that the result of being given eternal life is never perishing.
The list being referred to from your post cannot mean a condition for never perishing unless it can be shown that John 10:28 isn't about eternal security.
So a clear exegesis is in order. Please proceed.