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Bible Study Free will

kiwidan

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#1
Free will. It seems to be limited to choose the sin and lust you freely desire, as all fall short, trapped in the worlds bondage under sin, and not one is good but the Most High.

Sorry got no scripture to back me up, so you must correct me if im wrong so I can repent as I dont want to be no false prophet, im a philosipher :)

Dang I cant even get the word right. Philosepher, philosofer, I give up, yea anyhow, im just one of those thinkers type people.
 
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#2
LOL! Keep on keeping on little brother. Try chapter 3 of the book of Romans.
 
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#3
What is "free will"? To put it simply, The Power of Choice. Every person's mind has been programmed since birth. It has been said that when a child has reached the age of five, he/she has retained half of it's habit patterns. The big question for parents has been, am I going to let a baby sitter instill those life patterns in my child while I'm at work? Or will I remain home and see that those life patterns conform to mine and my husbands set of choices and standards.

Natural desires that are established in the early life of each child will make up their free will choices. The choices that they make as an adult can be traced back to their childhood....A Christian home will usually produce choices in the children that are naturally good rather than naturally bad as in a home devoid of the Christian principles, usually.

Free will? The power of choice and the liberty to act based on that choice.

The correct spelling is Philosopher
 
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#4
God is sovereign over everything. But there are a few things in scriptures that show quite a bit of choice. Both good and bad. Turn from your sins is a constant message in the Old Testiment and the New. Punishment for our turning away from God, from our sins, and from nations wickedness would be meaningless if they had no choice for their actions. As would be the call to turn to God if there is no free will. But in spite of this God is in control, not limited to the choices, victories, and mistakes we make.

That said, I think you're right about limited choice. I just don't think it's only limited to being under sin. Humanly speaking it's impossible, but with God all things are possible. So there's always that choice and the means to make it. God is the way, and Jesus is the way to God. At least that's my conclusions so far.
 
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#6
What is "free will"? To put it simply, The Power of Choice. Every person's mind has been programmed since birth. It has been said that when a child has reached the age of five, he/she has retained half of it's habit patterns. The big question for parents has been, am I going to let a baby sitter instill those life patterns in my child while I'm at work? Or will I remain home and see that those life patterns conform to mine and my husbands set of choices and standards.

Natural desires that are established in the early life of each child will make up their free will choices. The choices that they make as an adult can be traced back to their childhood....A Christian home will usually produce choices in the children that are naturally good rather than naturally bad as in a home devoid of the Christian principles, usually.

Free will? The power of choice and the liberty to act based on that choice.

The correct spelling is Philosopher
Chopper,
Not to many people understand the last part of your first paragraph.

Do you remember way back when men were paid pretty well for their work?
Women were slaves to the home but the husband made a pretty good salary.
Then women got liberated.
Now they could all go to work.
Now they were slaves to the home AND to the job.
Men's pay scales were lowered because there were two income earners.
Now women were FORCED to go to work to make ends meet.
What to do with the children?
Sacrifice a bit and stay home with them?
Continue to go to work and get them "things"?
Were the things for the kids or for the guilty parents?

I know Free Will is in there somewhere.

Wondering
Proverbs 3:5-6
Proverbs 22:6
 
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#7
Free will. It seems to be limited to choose the sin and lust you freely desire, as all fall short, trapped in the worlds bondage under sin, and not one is good but the Most High.

Sorry got no scripture to back me up, so you must correct me if im wrong so I can repent as I dont want to be no false prophet, im a philosipher :)

Dang I cant even get the word right. Philosepher, philosofer, I give up, yea anyhow, im just one of those thinkers type people.
There's plenty of scripture to back you up.
Taylor likes Romans 3. I concur.

But why are you limited to choosing the sin you freely desire?
Did Jesus not go willingly to that bloody cross, with pain and fear filling His body, hanging shamefully in the view of all, dying a horrible death He knew was forthcoming -
So you could be free from the bondage of sin. So you could choose to do HIS will, who died for you.

Sin will always be at our door, we're frail creatures after all. But with the power of love we have for Christ, we can also choose to abolish much of it. Maybe we could move you on up to Romans 8?

Wondering
 
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#8
Chopper,
Not to many people understand the last part of your first paragraph.

Do you remember way back when men were paid pretty well for their work?
Women were slaves to the home but the husband made a pretty good salary.
Then women got liberated.
Now they could all go to work.
Now they were slaves to the home AND to the job.
Men's pay scales were lowered because there were two income earners.
Now women were FORCED to go to work to make ends meet.
What to do with the children?
Sacrifice a bit and stay home with them?
Continue to go to work and get them "things"?
Were the things for the kids or for the guilty parents?

I know Free Will is in there somewhere.

Wondering
Proverbs 3:5-6
Proverbs 22:6
You certainly have hit on a nerve my Dear Sister. I've seen the struggles of my own two children. My Daughter Peggy, has always been a "stay at home Mom" Her five children are wonderful examples of Christian young people. They are all grown up, all have been to College, some graduated with honors even. The Lord has certainly bless Peggy's Husband Doug in his several business.

My Son Skip is a cabinet and furniture builder as well as his own business as a re-modeler of homes. They have struggled, but live modestly and make ends meet.

On the other hand, I've seen opposites when parents both work. I've seen kids turn out quite well from day care, and others turn out rotten. I guess it depends on the day care.
 
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#9
You certainly have hit on a nerve my Dear Sister. I've seen the struggles of my own two children. My Daughter Peggy, has always been a "stay at home Mom" Her five children are wonderful examples of Christian young people. They are all grown up, all have been to College, some graduated with honors even. The Lord has certainly bless Peggy's Husband Doug in his several business.

My Son Skip is a cabinet and furniture builder as well as his own business as a re-modeler of homes. They have struggled, but live modestly and make ends meet.

On the other hand, I've seen opposites when parents both work. I've seen kids turn out quite well from day care, and others turn out rotten. I guess it depends on the day care.
Hi Chopper,
Yes. A lot depends on a lot.
Many factors involved.
I was speaking to an ideal.
My son and daughter in law both work - 3 children.
My daughter stays home - 2 children.
We have stories to tell.
Each one makes his free-will choice.
Sometimes it's not so free but necessity sets in.
But the ideal is gone - that's what I meant.

Wondering
 
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#10
Free will. It seems to be limited to choose the sin and lust you freely desire, as all fall short, trapped in the worlds bondage under sin, and not one is good but the Most High.

Sorry got no scripture to back me up, so you must correct me if im wrong so I can repent as I dont want to be no false prophet, im a philosipher :)

Dang I cant even get the word right. Philosepher, philosofer, I give up, yea anyhow, im just one of those thinkers type people.
You'll find "free will" has different meanings to different people and sometimes the disagreements among people are simply arguments because of two people not realizing they are using different definitions for the same term.

When the New Testament speaks to slavery, I think it says much regarding our will since slavery involves the - willing or unwilling - conformity of a person's will to another persons will. Given this, what do you philosophize :) of these passages?:

Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. (John 8:34)

We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. (Romans 6:6 ESV)​
 
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#11
You'll find "free will" has different meanings to different people and sometimes the disagreements among people are simply arguments because of two people not realizing they are using different definitions for the same term.

When the New Testament speaks to slavery, I think it says much regarding our will since slavery involves the - willing or unwilling - conformity of a person's will to another persons will. Given this, what do you philosophize :) of these passages?:

Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. (John 8:34)

We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. (Romans 6:6 ESV)​
Hospes
I don't use emoticons too much, but here's one for your first paragraph:
:sohappy

Regarding slavery. My bible is getting worn out on these two pages:
Joshua 24:15
Deuteronomy 30:15

We are all slaves to someone. We must decide to whom we wish to be a slave.
God or the evil one. No in between.

My post to kiwidian, no. 7, was hinting at how to decide whom to serve.
I hope this is not taken to be legalism - far from my beliefs. Just a method on how to get there. (to being a slave for God).

Wondering
 

for_his_glory

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#12
Many people teach that man either has no free-will (fatalism) or limited amounts of it. The Bible teaches that every person with a moral capacity has the freedom of will to decide whether or not to obey God. Simply put, the Bible teaches that God elected (predestined or set in place) to save every soul who fears (respects) God and works righteousness, (Acts 10:34-35). That is, before time eternal, God predestined that men would be saved "in Christ" (Eph. 1:3-4, 7-12). God predestined the "plan" of human redemption (cf. Eph. 3:10-11).

God also determined that man would have free-will, the ability and responsibility to choose to obey Him (cf. Gen. 3:1-6; Josh. 24:15; Matt. 11:28). God did not predestine the man (which individuals would be saved & lost), He predestined the plan (how men would be saved) - read again Acts 10:34-35; Eph. 1:3-12; Rom. 8:28-30; 10:9-17.

(Permission from Joe Price to post this)
FREEWILL
By Joe R. Price
joe@bibleanswer.com
 
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#13
Many people teach that man either has no free-will (fatalism) or limited amounts of it. The Bible teaches that every person with a moral capacity has the freedom of will to decide whether or not to obey God. Simply put, the Bible teaches that God elected (predestined or set in place) to save every soul who fears (respects) God and works righteousness, (Acts 10:34-35). That is, before time eternal, God predestined that men would be saved "in Christ" (Eph. 1:3-4, 7-12). God predestined the "plan" of human redemption (cf. Eph. 3:10-11).

God also determined that man would have free-will, the ability and responsibility to choose to obey Him (cf. Gen. 3:1-6; Josh. 24:15; Matt. 11:28). God did not predestine the man (which individuals would be saved & lost), He predestined the plan (how men would be saved) - read again Acts 10:34-35; Eph. 1:3-12; Rom. 8:28-30; 10:9-17.

(Permission from Joe Price to post this)
FREEWILL
By Joe R. Price
joe@bibleanswer.com
Hi fhg
But HOW do we obey Him? What gives us the power?
I'd say this is the difference between the Old (Mosaic) Covenant, or Law - and the New Covenant, or grace.
Do we each work out our own "how?"

Regarding free-will, I'd just like to say that I have a difficult time reconciling man's free will to God's Providence. But I stopped trying many years ago!

Wondering
 
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#15
Many people teach that man either has no free-will (fatalism) or limited amounts of it. The Bible teaches that every person with a moral capacity has the freedom of will to decide whether or not to obey God. Simply put, the Bible teaches that God elected (predestined or set in place) to save every soul who fears (respects) God and works righteousness, (Acts 10:34-35). That is, before time eternal, God predestined that men would be saved "in Christ" (Eph. 1:3-4, 7-12). God predestined the "plan" of human redemption (cf. Eph. 3:10-11).

God also determined that man would have free-will, the ability and responsibility to choose to obey Him (cf. Gen. 3:1-6; Josh. 24:15; Matt. 11:28). God did not predestine the man (which individuals would be saved & lost), He predestined the plan (how men would be saved) - read again Acts 10:34-35; Eph. 1:3-12; Rom. 8:28-30; 10:9-17.

(Permission from Joe Price to post this)
FREEWILL
By Joe R. Price
joe@bibleanswer.com
Hi FHG.
Given you believe "God did not predestine the man (which individuals would be saved & lost)...", how do you reconcile your view with the following passage?

And I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers. But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles...(Galatians 1:14-16 ESV)​
 

for_his_glory

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#16
Hi FHG.
Given you believe "God did not predestine the man (which individuals would be saved & lost)...", how do you reconcile your view with the following passage?

And I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers. But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles...(Galatians 1:14-16 ESV)​
What God predestined was His plan of salvation to allow all of us from the time of Adams fall to be able to draw back to Gods grace.. Freewill allows one to choose to obey God or reject God as only God knows the heart. Abraham, Issac, Jacob and Paul are examples of Gods plan to draw man back to Him. We as servants of God are also called by His name to draw others unto God. The plan is being saved by Gods grace and the predestination is God knowing who will obey. Salvation is freely given and God knows who will accept His call.

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
 

for_his_glory

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#17
Hi fhg
But HOW do we obey Him? What gives us the power?
I'd say this is the difference between the Old (Mosaic) Covenant, or Law - and the New Covenant, or grace.
Do we each work out our own "how?"

Regarding free-will, I'd just like to say that I have a difficult time reconciling man's free will to God's Providence. But I stopped trying many years ago!

Wondering
Grace means unmerited favor as it's Gods power and authority given to us even though we do not deserve it. We do nothing of ourselves as God works in us and through us as it's all His power and authority that we submit to. The greatest law of God is to love others and to carry on the works of the Lord which are taking His word out into the world and helping those who need our help, Matthew 22:34-40; 25:31-46.This is how we obey God by doing what He has already called us to do.

I have a class I teach on my website called Power and authority that will help answer your question in more detail. Just click on the link at the end of this post.
 
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#18
Grace means unmerited favor as it's Gods power and authority given to us even though we do not deserve it. We do nothing of ourselves as God works in us and through us as it's all His power and authority that we submit to. The greatest law of God is to love others and to carry on the works of the Lord which are taking His word out into the world and helping those who need our help, Matthew 22:34-40; 25:31-46.This is how we obey God by doing what He has already called us to do.

I have a class I teach on my website called Power and authority that will help answer your question in more detail. Just click on the link at the end of this post.
I like Mathew 22:34-40
This will work as to the "how" we could obey Him.

As to Mathew 25:31-46 some might categorize these as works. But I also agree with James 2:14-18

Wondering
 

for_his_glory

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#19
I like Mathew 22:34-40
This will work as to the "how" we could obey Him.

As to Mathew 25:31-46 some might categorize these as works. But I also agree with James 2:14-18

Wondering
I feel what it all comes down to is loving and giving from the heart as our faith is Christ Jesus and how He has instructed us in love that we carry on the works He has started as we walk by faith and not by sight.
 
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#20
I would like to add that sometimes it is not the parent or daycare person that kids learn from.
I wanted to hang out with a friend when I was ten and one day he said we can go in this store and I will walk to the back where the fruit is and you stay up front and get a pack of gum. So in we went and I saw the employee follow him to the fruit in back; I picked up a pack of gum and he started toward me right when he approached me another employee, I didnt see, moved to the front door and said you can put the gum back or we will call the law. that broke me of stealing but I still wanted to hang out with this guy just was not going to steal. A few weeks later He said go with me to the drug store. I want to get mom something for valentine's day. We went in and he was looking at several boxes the lady had out and when he was in the right position between me and the door he grabbed a box and ran out; another employee tried to grab him at the door and missed but they had me as part of the deal. I did not know he was going to pull that on me. I gave up his name and address to the cop and never had anything to do with him or stealing again.
So I learned how to steal and how to get caught from a friend. I also learned to make better decisions.
 

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