Freemasonry- Can a Christian be a mason?

[Gazelle]

I have personal experience with freemasonry, and freemasons, as well as the Eastern Star.

I would stay far, far away, as a true, born-again believer wishing to serve ONLY Christ.

 

[Jam]

ok, so what does pagan rites that all masons go through and the name of a mixed god called jeshbalon have to do with christ.

if this was in the torah days men and women would die for doing just that. what does God have to do with belial.

What do you mean by "pagan rites"? I'm not convinced that any freemason has to go through with any pagan practices... perhaps they resemble pagan ceremonies and perhaps they don't. Do you actually know? If so, what aspects of the intiation specifically are sinful?

As for the name of a mixed god... well, can I ask from where you are getting this information? We have to remember that the Freemasons are a fraternal organisation and so half of what we know about them is probably based upon little more than hearsay. Perhaps in one Lodge one freemason used the name of a different "mixed god", or perhaps in one Lodge all freemasons use that name, but it is not logical to apply our judgement on this particular issue to all Lodges: they do not all practice this. Like I said earlier, I think we should remember that two different Masonic Lodges can be entirely different in their practices and priorities.

I have personal experience with freemasonry, and freemasons, as well as the Eastern Star.

I would stay far, far away, as a true, born-again believer wishing to serve ONLY Christ.

Is there any chance of you expanding on this? I am genuinely curious!
Thanks

 

[Mike]

Light, if you're not a Mason, isn't your information "hearsay" as well? I'm just curious what your source of information is. For now, I'll just say the Masons cannot be compared to a golf club. I believe there are depths to their highest levels that typical members aren't privy to. I'll say more after you reply.

Thanks.

 

[Gazelle]

Is there any chance of you expanding on this? I am genuinely curious!
Thanks

Normally, I would, and would be glad to do so. However, what I've found is many people here would rather dispute anything posted rather than use it for increasing knowledge and understanding. So I've decided to post enough information of my own experience or opinion, and let others who truly wish to know more, go find it for themselves (since anyone's posting would allude that there is or is not "more" information.")

What I will add is that John Ankerberg is a trusted resource on this type of organization. http://www.ankerberg.com/Articles/apologetics/AP0401W4.htm

 

[jasoncran]

What do you mean by "pagan rites"? I'm not convinced that any freemason has to go through with any pagan practices... perhaps they resemble pagan ceremonies and perhaps they don't. Do you actually know? If so, what aspects of the intiation specifically are sinful?

As for the name of a mixed god... well, can I ask from where you are getting this information? We have to remember that the Freemasons are a fraternal organisation and so half of what we know about them is probably based upon little more than hearsay. Perhaps in one Lodge one freemason used the name of a different "mixed god", or perhaps in one Lodge all freemasons use that name, but it is not logical to apply our judgement on this particular issue to all Lodges: they do not all practice this. Like I said earlier, I think we should remember that two different Masonic Lodges can be entirely different in their practices and priorities.





Is there any chance of you expanding on this? I am genuinely curious!
Thanks

well gee what is up with them and symbols of sex? read this thread and see what i say and also i went when i posted that way back and asked a master mason on masonry.

why does it have to be in secret? and involves oathes?

 

[Jam]

well gee what is up with them and symbols of sex? read this thread and see what i say and also i went when i posted that way back and asked a master mason on masonry.

Even if true, just because one Master Mason understands the square and compasses to refer to sex does not mean that they were unequivocally and irrefutably intended to represent sex... Since when has intra-marital sex been something that we shouldn't advocate, anyway?

the square and compasses are not usually interpreted to have anything to do with sex. Free masons are taught to "square their actions by the square of virtue", and masonic symbolism tends to be derived from the profession of stone-masonry. I think whoever suggested this was totally misunderstanding the subjectivity that is necessarily present in any metaphorical or symbolic images/descriptions.

Here is a fairly comprehensive list of Masonic plates and symbols, if you want to be convinced that they are innocent with respect to sex aha: http://www.ugle.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/boc-2009-online-craft-plates.pdf

why does it have to be in secret? and involves oathes?

I don't know why it has to be in secret... but I consider it absurd to assert that something must be wrong if it is conducted in secret. There could be perfectly legitimate and justified reasons for the secrecy; we simply do not know.

These are essentially the terms and conditions of freemasonry: http://www.ugle.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/boc-2009-online-craft-rules-r3.pdf
I see nothing to which we should take a disliking. The "Mystic Art" mentioned, although suspicious-sounding, does not appear to be anything more sinister than the idea of taming desires and wants to maximise moral behaviours.

"A Mason is not necessarily a member of a lodge. In a broad sense, he is any person who daily tries to live the Masonic life, and to serve intelligently the needs of the Great Architect."

What is Freemasonry’s relationship with religion?
All Freemasons are expected to have a religious belief, but Freemasonry does not seek to replace a Mason’s religion or provide a substitute for it. It deals in a man’s relationship with his fellow man; not in a man’s relationship with his God.
Why do some churches not like Freemasonry?
There are elements within churches who misunderstand Freemasonry and its objectives. They confuse secular rituals with religious liturgy. There are many Masons in churches where their leaders have been openly critical of the organisation. Masonry has always actively encouraged its members to be active in their own religion.

Light, if you're not a Mason, isn't your information "hearsay" as well? I'm just curious what your source of information is. For now, I'll just say the Masons cannot be compared to a golf club. I believe there are depths to their highest levels that typical members aren't privy to. I'll say more after you reply.

Thanks.

Hearsay and information that has been officially distributed by the UGLE, yes. Personally I am slightly wary of Freemasonry simply because of the bad publicity that it seems to get from many religious people... from my experience though, these people opposed to freemasonry often appear to base their reasons for opposition on things that they have heard from a friend who heard them from their second cousin's step-great-grandfather's colleague's daughter's fianceé, or someone nearly as obscure;). I have yet to meet someone vehemently opposed to Freemasonry who has actually read any official Masonic material, though.

For many years Freemasons have followed three great principles:
Brotherly Love
Every true Freemason will show tolerance and respect for the opinions of others and behave with kindness and understanding to his fellow creatures.
Relief
Freemasons are taught to practise charity and to care - not only for their own - but also for the community as a whole, both by charitable giving and by voluntary efforts and works as individuals.
Truth
Freemasons strive for truth, requiring high moral standards and aiming to achieve them in their own lives. Freemasons believe that these principles represent a way of achieving higher standards in life.

 

[jasoncran]

then why preytell cant women be a mason? no in fact they cant! they must join the order of the eastern star.

sorry. i talked to both former masons and masons themselves. their words not mine. and i could say the same with witchraft after spell casting is for helping others and yourself not to harm others.

what say ye, and what does god have to do with the ziggurat(the washington monument is one big one of those). in fact the egyptians of lore used that symbol.

sorry. i dont advice any christian to be in any masonry. and i can paint satanism in a good light if you care to ask too.

 

[Jam]

then why preytell cant women be a mason? no in fact they cant! they must join the order of the eastern star.

Women can be Masons... the Lodges are just separated into all-men and all-women. That's not exactly sinister; many societies make distinctions between genders. The Order of the Eastern Star is, I believe, officially associated with Freemasonry- if not actually a part of Freemasonry.

See http://www.owf.org.uk/

http://ugle.org.uk/ :

Are there women Freemasons?
Yes. Whilst UGLE, following the example of medieval stonemasons, is, and has always been, restricted to men, women Freemasons have two separate Grand Lodges, which are restricted to women.

sorry. i talked to both former masons and masons themselves. their words not mine.

But, like I said earlier, just because certain Masons believe and do things that you believe to be sinful does not mean that Masonry itself is inherently sinful.

and i could say the same with witchraft after spell casting is for helping others and yourself not to harm others.

You could. But do you have any reason to suppose that Masons engage in witchcraft, or that "Mystic Art" actually refers to anything "dodgy"?

what does god have to do with the ziggurat(the washington monument is one big one of those). in fact the egyptians of lore used that symbol.

What does God have to do with fishing nets? In fact the Egyptians of lore used fishing nets.

Just because God is not directly involved in something does not mean that that something is sinful... What does God have to do with my old school? What does God have to do with my trampolining club? What does God have to do with the arts society of which I am a member? Nothing specific, of course... that does not make them sinful!

I may have misunderstood you, though: I'd never heard the word "Ziggurat" before so I googled and wiki'd it... as far as I can tell Ziggurats have nothing whatsoever to do with Freemasonry

sorry. i dont advice any christian to be in any masonry. and i can paint satanism in a good light if you care to ask too.

And I could probably paint golf clubs in a bad light to someone unacquainted with golf if I wanted to...

 

[jasoncran]

then why does the intation to master mason include the burning and branding the masonic symbol. and uh women and men learn together in church unless its some gender specific thing.

and my mastor mason friend had that done to him.

so masonic graves with the ziggurat meant the the deceased wasnt a mason? hmm or with the symbol of tubal cain?

the ziggurat was part of the egyptian believe system in worship of the pharoahs.

so that would be ok if the jews did that in the days of the torah? really didnt god judge them for that stuff? even warned them why he was taking the the land from the cannanites and for them to do the same.

its still done. i know masons that have verified this. see the point i talk to them. i ask so that i am not misinformed. so if i take that way the only to truly know about another religion is to at first be one of them.

sorry often the devil tells on himself. i was in the occult. why the secrecy? if its just a club them why place them on the alter and take a sword point at their chest and have them swear loyality to the masonry.

god wants nothing hidden, all to see. look at his judgments and blessings. all done in the open. christians arent to be hidden society were to be well noticed.

 

[Jam]

then why does the intation to master mason include the burning and branding the masonic symbol.

What is your source for this information? These both might be worth a read: one is allegedly the leak of a Mark Master Mason initiation ceremony from a very strongly anti-Freemasonry website; the other is a particular Freemason blogging about his Master Mason initiation. Neither appears to allude to the burning or branding of Masonic imagery:

http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/markdegree.htm
http://horseshoesandhandgrenades.wordpress.com/2007/05/26/my-master-mason-degree-ceremony/

and uh women and men learn together in church unless its some gender specific thing.

I'm sorry, I genuinely don't understand the relevance of this... could you explain further? I'm aware that this is true in most cases, but I don't get how it should affect our attitude to Freemasonry

so masonic graves with the ziggurat meant the the deceased wasnt a mason? hmm or with the symbol of tubal cain?

the ziggurat was part of the egyptian believe system in worship of the pharoahs.

so that would be ok if the jews did that in the days of the torah? really didnt god judge them for that stuff? even warned them why he was taking the the land from the cannanites and for them to do the same.

Sorry to be a pain again, but could you explain what you mean here too please? As I understand it, ziggurats are simply a form of pyramidal building... If what you are referring to is indeed this general, then I must apologise: I fail to see the relevance of the fact that ziggurats were part of ancient Egyptian "religions" to Freemasonry.

Even if Freemasons and ancients Egyptions both use/used ziggurats as symbols or imagery... so what? The association is irrelevant! Nazi's use the swastika as one of their symbols, but that does not in any way mean that any institution or society using swastika-like symbolism is like the Nazi party!

its still done. i know masons that have verified this. see the point i talk to them. i ask so that i am not misinformed. so if i take that way the only to truly know about another religion is to at first be one of them.

Hearsay from Masons that may be dodgy (there is likely to be something dodgy about them if they have told you Masonic secrets that they swore not to tell) is probably not a reliable source for the understanding of Freemasonry as whole, though. Sure, it is probably more reliable to you as it is first-hand, but I will freely admit that I remain unconvinced by these forms of anecdotal evidence.

god wants nothing hidden, all to see. look at his judgments and blessings. all done in the open. christians arent to be hidden society were to be well noticed.

"God wants nothing hidden,"

This is an idea with which I think a great number of Christians would disagree... we must rid ourselves of this prejudice that anything that is secret or that we do not understand must be wrong or dangerous! It is simply illogical!

 

[Gazelle]

Actually (and forgive me if someone's already said this (I'm having issues reading font lately)) women WERE masons in early years. The women branched off into the Eastern Star (a very long time ago).

 

[jasoncran]

well then what can i say?

the freemason should me the scar and i saw it,i asked him all that i have said.

he told me that they do bible studies there. and its like this to him all paths lead to god. so you tell me. and here.



http://templates.earthstores.com/9072/proddetail.asp?id=686972616D68756E746572&prod=151695

take note of the all seing eye aka horus or ra. and osirus these gods seem to jump aroung alot in egypt

and here from egyptology.
http://www.egyptianmyths.net/osiris.htm

http://www.touregypt.net/godsofegypt/horus.htm

and his symbol

http://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...b=12glh4lfn&sigi=11viqsfqq&.crumb=k/UBSRHeTXc

 

[EricTheBaptist]

Of course you can be a Christian and a Mason. My old pastor was a Mason for goodness sake. Even historical people who were Christians were also Masons. George Washington would be a good example of one, and I can GUARANTEE if anyone in Masonry would know if something went against God he'd know.

 

[Jam]

the freemason should me the scar and i saw it,i asked him all that i have said.

Again, the fact that one Mason had an experience that was (debatably) un-Christian does not mean that Freemasonry itself is inheretly un-Christian. The generalisation is utterly absurd!

he told me that they do bible studies there. and its like this to him all paths lead to god. so you tell me. and here.

Doctrine with which most of us would disagree heartily, yes... but some "liberal" Christian institutions do teach the same sort of thing. I'm going to have to make the same point yet again: just because the Bible studies at one Masonic Lodge proposed doctrine with which you disagree does not mean that Freemasonry itself is inherently un-Christian.

take note of the all seing eye aka horus or ra. and osirus these gods seem to jump aroung alot in egypt

... but the all-seeing eye has been used in Christian symbolism too! Just because it has its original roots in Ancient Egypt doesn't mean that it is still used for the promotion of those "gods" today! Is not the idea of an all-seeing eye a perfect metaphor for God's omniscience?

 

[Gazelle]

Major Powell, a Masonic author, writes:—

“Christian saint, Mohammedan Mystic, Indian Yogi, Buddhist Lama, Greek Gnostic, Egyptian Priest—each in his own way has borne witness to the transcendental vision, where self and personality are obliterated where atonement is established.†(The Magic of Freemasonry, 1924, p. 594)

Let's face it, those who are in this organization rarely see it's errors without being lead out of them...I recall one very religious bi-vocational minister who preached against them, and rallied to get his father out of the organization, it was so heathenistic. Alas, he did. Years later, he himself required the membership so that he could advance in the US Coast Guard so he joined, paid his $25,000 fee, and made his rank in the Coast Guard.

But those in it are so into it... so wrapped up in the "playing God" syndrome perhaps, being a part of "man's frat" and all that... they just don't see how roped into it satan has them.

 

[jasoncran]

Again, the fact that one Mason had an experience that was (debatably) un-Christian does not mean that Freemasonry itself is inheretly un-Christian. The generalisation is utterly absurd!





Doctrine with which most of us would disagree heartily, yes... but some "liberal" Christian institutions do teach the same sort of thing. I'm going to have to make the same point yet again: just because the Bible studies at one Masonic Lodge proposed doctrine with which you disagree does not mean that Freemasonry itself is inherently un-Christian.





... but the all-seeing eye has been used in Christian symbolism too! Just because it has its original roots in Ancient Egypt doesn't mean that it is still used for the promotion of those "gods" today! Is not the idea of an all-seeing eye a perfect metaphor for God's omniscience?

really show me where the all seeing eye was declared God.

 

[jasoncran]

again. might i remind you that you are now promoting sin. something called idol worship.

the master mason said that all of masonry is the like that and i have also have others tell me that, that are masons.

 

[Jam]

really show me where the all seeing eye was declared God.

You've missed the point (one that I've been consistently making throughout my posts): simply because God doesn't declare something doesn't mean that it is sinful. God did not declare toothbrushes; God did not declare computers; God did not declare crosses. That does not mean that they are sinful!


I am not promoting sin. Firstly, I did not promote the use of the symbolism. Secondly, the use of such symbolism is arguably not sinful... if we cannot use any imagery to symbolise our beliefs about God, then most Christians commit this sin continuously throughout their entire lives through their wearing of crosses.

 

[Gazelle]

Perhaps the organizations are different between countries? I'm sure they are somewhat different within the USA. I mean, surely not all were comprised of the men who burned crosses down here years ago, right?

 

[jasoncran]

crosses were first used by the early chruch. not by some recent thing., in pompeii they have found crosses on the walls of homes. pompeii was leveled before the fall of jerusalem and paul may be alive to see it.


so that point is moot.

no the masons did in the past and do pray to the god they call jeshballon( the all seing eye) and on/horus and osirus .


that is totally different,maam.so you wouldnt mind if my or these site then said well since we have muslims/jews and etc we teach their holy writs too and also god is god of all faiths.

surely you wouldnt mind.