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God's Eternal Law and The Law of Moses
- Thread starter GodsGrace
- Start date
th1b.taylor
Member
It is my understanding that they are the same.
The first was the result of man coming to know the difference in good and evil; Gen 3:22.
It killed because mankind could not adhere to its obligations as Jesus did. It was called the "Ministration of Death."
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
QUOTE="wondering, post: 1396638, member: 8700"]Is one more important (to man)?/quote]
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law.
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Eternal law - Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Even Moses could not obey the law's demands, was told to go up and die as the result in Deut 32:50. Does God have better for us?
The laws of Moses are not his, but what God gave him on Mt. Sinai, Exodus Chapter 20-23. The Torah makes up the first five books of the OT.
Papyrus_dust
Member
They're one and the same. The law of God is called the law of Moses because Moses received the law on Mt.Sinai. He is not the giver of the law. He was the receiver.
Christians are not under the penalty of the Mitzvot. More than 10 commands, which are moral codes still applicable because they speak of our conduct toward others and God. But rather 613 laws comprised the Mitzvot, or Law of God in the OT .
Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)
Christians are not under the penalty of the Mitzvot. More than 10 commands, which are moral codes still applicable because they speak of our conduct toward others and God. But rather 613 laws comprised the Mitzvot, or Law of God in the OT .
Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)
The Torah is a reference to the first five books of the Bible and is referred to as the law, and was written by Moses.
The Old Testament, as we call it, is primarily composed of the law, the prophets and the psalms, along with what some call, "the writings", which would be like proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Job.
Also, as you are aware of, there is the apocrypha.
The law of Moses is also referred to as the law.
The context is what determines which is being referred to.
When the author couples the law together with the prophets, then it is most often, a reference to the Torah.
Example: Torah
Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. Matthew 5:17
The Law in this verse is a reference to the Torah, the first five books of the Bible.
Jesus uses the law of Moses, specifically in this case to clarify.
Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”
Luke 24:44
Example: law of Moses
17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
Galatians 3:17-19
Paul is contrasting the Abrahamic Covenant and the promises, with the law of Moses.
The law of Moses was "added" to the Abrahamic Covenant, not the Torah.
This is how we use the context, to determine (in most cases) which law is being referred to.
Thanks. Great topic.
JLB
Do you believe the Ten Commandments originated with Moses law at Sinai, or were Commandments that were part of God's eternal kingdom before Moses was born.
Example:
You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. John 8:44
Satan was said to be a liar and murderer, most likely before Adam and Eve were created.
JLB
Two comments.
The law of Moses, which is found in the Mosaic Covenant , is indeed added to the Abrahamic Covenant, as you've stated. This is an important concept to understand because some believe the New Covenant replaces the Mosaic when instead it adds to it, making it better. If the Mosaic had functioned, the New would not have been necessary.
The second comment that I'd like to make is that there are three different types of law in the Torah.
Ceremonial
Civil
Moral
It's accepted that when we speak of the law, we're speaking of the moral law, which would include the 10 commandments.
Can we agree that the ceremonial and the civil law has been abolished?
Which indeed it has.....at least for non-Jews. We Christian's do not follow Jewish customs.
Douglas Summers
Member
Were not some of the 613 laws added by the religious leaders that were not part of the original commands after the giving of the law? Man made law not of God? God never numbered 613 laws. Many of the law are just for priest (Matt. 15:1-9) (Luke 15:1-6)
The law of Moses has been abolished in His flesh, having been nailed to the cross, and taken out of the way because He has made it obsolete
In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13
- He has made the first obsolete.
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, Ephesians 2:14-15
- having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances
having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Colossians 2:14
- wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us
The phrase "that was against us" is a reference to the Law of Moses, from Deuteronomy 31, where Moses commanded Joshua, before he died...
“Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you; Deuteronomy 31:26
The law was added, til the Seed should come...
What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19
- It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come
By saying "till", the Holy Spirit is indication the law [of Moses] was temporary, being in effect until the Messiah should come.
Moses being the mediator of that covenant, delegated the law of Moses.
Now, Christ is the mediator of the New Covenant, and we follow the law of Christ, because we are under grace.
JLB
jasonc
Member
no, they aren't as the mosaic law incorporated the early commands of God. remember the torah also incuded a diet, a command to partake in several feasts with death for those that didn't and also the Sabbath. of that I don't have to rest on the shabat, I can ignore the feasts of Passover, tabernacles and others that have the penalty.
Jim Parker
Member
It is also my understanding that they are the same. The way God wants people to interact with each other is universal.
BUT
There laws in the Torah which have to do specifically with Israel and the Levitical priesthood, the rubrics of worship and religious feasts.
AND
The Law of Moses/Torah is a covenant between God and Israel. It is written in the form of a Suzerain - Vassal treaty between a high king and a vassal king which was essentially standard at that time in the near east. (just an FYI)
iakov the fool
ANd why did this come out double-spaced??????
Last edited:
Douglas Summers
Member
I know that...did you read my post? God did not write 613 laws....Israel added them.(Matt. 15:1-9) (Luke 15:1-6) (Mark 10:1-9) Christ did not approve of many of them.
There are laws (commandments) that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood, the poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family, forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants, vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures, injuries and damages, property and property rights, Criminal laws, prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God that we present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow the light of Christ shine in us and through us as a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.
Douglas Summers
Member
If it were possible (but it is not for man) to follow the Ten Commandment's Holy Commands by Spiritual fiat, there would be no need to add 613 addendum's to the Ten Commandments. For all of the Law in it's Spiritual context is to love the Lord and your neighbor without exceptions. or ( without ever using the conjunction "but".)
Papyrus_dust
Member
Did you read the article I linked so as to answer your previous question?
Douglas Summers
Member
Yes, What did I miss?
Are you saying that the Law of Moses was done away with and The Law of Jesus is not in operation?
Many say that since the resurrection, the Law of Moses has been abolished.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death (Ten Commandments), written and engraven in stones, was glorious, . . . . which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? (Are we now under the law or the ministration of the Spirit?)
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Galatians 3:21 . . if there had been a law given which could have given life (We might add "Retain life"), verily righteousness should have been by the law.
I wrote this following thread sometime ago that goes a bit deeper into what I've already said.
The Established Law
http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/the-established-law.68479/#post-1300031
No, the ministration of the Spirit is in operation to us which are in Christ.
Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth," whether it be to obtain righteousness, or to retain it - Romans 10:4. The law could not give life; and, of course, it cannot sustain life nor nourish it after it is received. "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law" - Romans 3:31. Faith brings deliverance to a sinner, whom the law condemned but could not save. Thus, it agrees with the law. But that law, which "was weak through the flesh," has nothing to do with saving him or keeping him or perfecting his walk -
Rom 8:3. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Dear Sister wondering, knowing that Jesus is the end of the law to all that believe, what do you believe? Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
It is no longer we are subject to the eternal fight of flesh against Spirit, it is God in us doing the work even for our being conformed into the very image of Christ.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Thank you so much for your reply.
