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Golden Gate Bridge Suicides

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No, that's not the point. Here is where the American psyche comes in. Most other Western countries are fine with governments trying to prevent civillian deaths, for instance seatbelt laws, fences to help prevent suicides etc. In many other countries in the world, these things are done without debate. And yes, governments have stopped there. I really do think this valid concern for governments overstepping the mark is either outdated, or it applies only in the United States.
yes, really?

Apple’s iPhone Keeps A Secret Record Of Everywhere You Go, Your Permission Is Not Required « The Oldspeak Journal

http://mlk-kpp01.stanford.edu/index...edia/enc_federal_bureau_of_investigation_fbi/
its already in place. and i'm not paranoid but i dont like them or anyone listening to my conversations. didnt you complain about the aussie version of the internet monitoring and censorship.

i am not against seat belt laws but suicide? its going to be just more then a net here or there to stop them. they will just go to another spot to do it. my shrink told me that even with help if a man wants to kill himself theres NOTHING you can do stop him.

ok let me put it this way what does your govt do with those that are suicidal?

is it anything like the baker act?
 
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yes, really?

Apple’s iPhone Keeps A Secret Record Of Everywhere You Go, Your Permission Is Not Required « The Oldspeak Journal

its already in place. and i'm not paranoid but i dont like them or anyone listening to my conversations. didnt you complain about the aussie version of the internet monitoring and censorship.
Straw man. We're talking about governments not private firms like Apple. If the government have court orders and warrants, they can get this information anyway. This just makes it avaliable to anyone, which I agree is wrong. I don't think the government needs to know our whereabouts either.

What you have done is take my argument to an extreme hypothetical that doesn't really relate, and it misses the point.

Yes, I did sign the petition against the Australian government filtering the internet. That's really another thread, but in short it is a lot different than suicide!

i am not against seat belt laws but suicide? its going to be just more then a net here or there to stop them. they will just go to another spot to do it. my shrink told me that even with help if a man wants to kill himself theres NOTHING you can do stop him.
False! Many suicides have been prevented because people have been talked our detered out of it. Don't tell me that it doesn't happen Jason. But education and culture is the key.

ok let me put it this way what does your govt do with those that are suicidal?

is it anything like the baker act?
What's the Baker Act?
 
Straw man. We're talking about governments not private firms like Apple. If the government have court orders and warrants, they can get this information anyway. This just makes it avaliable to anyone, which I agree is wrong. I don't think the government needs to know our whereabouts either.

What you have done is take my argument to an extreme hypothetical that doesn't really relate, and it misses the point.

Yes, I did sign the petition against the Australian government filtering the internet. That's really another thread, but in short it is a lot different than suicide!


False! Many suicides have been prevented because people have been talked our detered out of it. Don't tell me that it doesn't happen Jason. But education and culture is the key.


What's the Baker Act?
false? i guess my doctor who teaches it must be a quack he said sometimes not all of them. my friend did just that. gave no signals and talked to his buddies at a bar had a drink and wasnt drunk. and got into his car at the parking lot and shot himself. he gave no warning signs. at all

baker act is this you make the person see a doctor by arresting them and holding in jail or a facility. it neither treats them. just keeps them in watch. if they dont harm themselves they are realised. the cant hold them any longer then 72 hrs.

i do think they can treat it, but not all suicides are from just down feelings. psychosis!is the leading cause

no nick did you bother to read the link on mlk? that was in some here lifetime. what did he do? nothing.

martin luther king was monitored by the govt for simply being associated with comminists and now wire taps were issued by the govt per mcarthyism and now possiblely with the patriot act the same thing could happen. unless that is repealed.

and its not.
44 - Patriot Act extension passes House, one week after unexpected defeat

i dont fear that as i dont do those things but do you really think person dont telegraph suicides online. i have seen it on fb and its was a friend of ours that was doing it on this forum!! i know for a fact that atf and the fbi and the other law agency do watch fb and other sites.
 
false? i guess my doctor who teaches it must be a quack he said sometimes not all of them. my friend did just that. gave no signals and talked to his buddies at a bar had a drink and wasnt drunk. and got into his car at the parking lot and shot himself. he gave no warning signs. at all
That's why when the government has an opportunity to do something about it, they should.

baker act is this you make the person see a doctor by arresting them and holding in jail or a facility. it neither treats them. just keeps them in watch. if they dont harm themselves they are realised. the cant hold them any longer then 72 hrs.

i do think they can treat it, but not all suicides are from just down feelings. psychosis!is the leading cause
I dont' thinkk they have that here.

no nick did you bother to read the link on mlk? that was in some here lifetime. what did he do? nothing.

martin luther king was monitored by the govt for simply being associated with comminists and now wire taps were issued by the govt per mcarthyism and now possiblely with the patriot act the same thing could happen. unless that is repealed.

and its not.
44 - Patriot Act extension passes House, one week after unexpected defeat

i dont fear that as i dont do those things but do you really think person dont telegraph suicides online. i have seen it on fb and its was a friend of ours that was doing it on this forum!! i know for a fact that atf and the fbi and the other law agency do watch fb and other sites.
I didn't know there was a link on mlk. I'm not too familair with the Patriot act, but I have a feeling I don't think it's a good idea.

I'm quite sue what you say about fb is true. I know the police in Australia monitor it for sexual and child predators. Nothing wrong with that, IMO.
But there's a difference between monitoring someoen's private life and trying to prevent them taking their life in a public space.
By your arguement, even educating the culture is government interventon, therefore it's wrong?
 
That's why when the government has an opportunity to do something about it, they should.


I dont' thinkk they have that here.


I didn't know there was a link on mlk. I'm not too familair with the Patriot act, but I have a feeling I don't think it's a good idea.

I'm quite sue what you say about fb is true. I know the police in Australia monitor it for sexual and child predators. Nothing wrong with that, IMO.
But there's a difference between monitoring someoen's private life and trying to prevent them taking their life in a public space.
By your arguement, even educating the culture is government interventon, therefore it's wrong?
no, its one thing to educate, but another to listen to them, what good is it to teach some that they need help.

i didnt want to admit that i had get help for my ptsd like symptom. my wife has conteplated suicide numerous times and that is main reason aside from her temper i wont buy a gun.

having mentall issues is still a stigma.believe me i see it when i mention my wifes psychosis.education helps there but the person has to want help and unless they come forward how is the govt going to know?

if you are a cop and monitoring a fb page that you think is bad , and one poster says i want to die and you are reading that and know its a suicidal persons should you not then act?

it makes no sense to have nets on bridges and not to have monitors on the net.i dont mind them monitoring the net but where once we get into bad behaviors does it stop?
 
no, its one thing to educate, but another to listen to them, what good is it to teach some that they need help.

i didnt want to admit that i had get help for my ptsd like symptom. my wife has conteplated suicide numerous times and that is main reason aside from her temper i wont buy a gun.

having mentall issues is still a stigma.believe me i see it when i mention my wifes psychosis.education helps there but the person has to want help and unless they come forward how is the govt going to know?

if you are a cop and monitoring a fb page that you think is bad , and one poster says i want to die and you are reading that and know its a suicidal persons should you not then act?

it makes no sense to have nets on bridges and not to have monitors on the net.i dont mind them monitoring the net but where once we get into bad behaviors does it stop?
I can't really comment on the mental illness part, except that it's up to the person or friends/family to notify authroities that ther person needs help. Despite what you may think, I largely disagree with governments snooping about.

The problem with monitoring fb is that on the internet it is hard to sense emotion.

Actuallly I think it makes more sense than you realise, but it's hard on the net. I think the goverments' primary role on the net is to get stalkers etc.

And yes, it stops with suicides and stralking. Yes, I know it's a fine line. That's why I was against the internet filtering. It was supposed to block only chld pornography. Ok, I can deal with that. But in the end it ended up blockign euthanasia sites in its trials. With net filters, it's too easy for bad or corrupt tlhings to happen.
 
I can't really comment on the mental illness part, except that it's up to the person or friends/family to notify authroities that ther person needs help. Despite what you may think, I largely disagree with governments snooping about.

The problem with monitoring fb is that on the internet it is hard to sense emotion.

Actuallly I think it makes more sense than you realise, but it's hard on the net. I think the goverments' primary role on the net is to get stalkers etc.

And yes, it stops with suicides and stralking. Yes, I know it's a fine line. That's why I was against the internet filtering. It was supposed to block only chld pornography. Ok, I can deal with that. But in the end it ended up blockign euthanasia sites in its trials. With net filters, it's too easy for bad or corrupt tlhings to happen.
the problem is nick , sometime that person does that. so it cant be those that have familes that have any idea of psychosis. i know the laws here as my brother and sister were baker acted while in high school. i used to visit them in the mental hospitals.

i think these that commit suicide either are homeless or also dont have a support group. or if they do they isolated themselves from that. that is a habit i have. i will when depressed disengage my emotions till i want to feel again. the problem here is how does one find these. my unit lost 4 soldiers counting the afformentioned to suicide. three of them were suicide by motor vehicle.

so how in the world would the govt monitor that?two drove their car into a tree. another drove so fast that he flipped his bike.i dont think the govt can help these if people did care for their friends and did seek help and then go it.

the army has an ancronym on that and even a source to help the army one source and also the sucide prevention line which are free. and are listed in the phone book.

i just cant remember the darn acronym.
 
it has listen and escort the soldier to help. i get suicide prevention training 4 times a year. i had to correct the instructor on depression and its nature as they made it seem like the blues that we get from stress whether positive or negative and depression is far more then that!
 
the problem is nick , sometime that person does that. so it cant be those that have familes that have any idea of psychosis. i know the laws here as my brother and sister were baker acted while in high school. i used to visit them in the mental hospitals.

i think these that commit suicide either are homeless or also dont have a support group. or if they do they isolated themselves from that. that is a habit i have. i will when depressed disengage my emotions till i want to feel again. the problem here is how does one find these. my unit lost 4 soldiers counting the afformentioned to suicide. three of them were suicide by motor vehicle.

so how in the world would the govt monitor that?two drove their car into a tree. another drove so fast that he flipped his bike.i dont think the govt can help these if people did care for their friends and did seek help and then go it.

the army has an ancronym on that and even a source to help the army one source and also the sucide prevention line which are free. and are listed in the phone book.

i just cant remember the darn acronym.
I don't really disagree with what you posted here. What I am saying is that the bridge is in a public space, and governments have responsibility over such public spaces. They have an opportunity to prevent some deaths here. It just seems practical and logical to me.

BTW, i"m not sure if this is going anywhere, lol.
 
I don't really disagree with what you posted here. What I am saying is that the bridge is in a public space, and governments have responsibility over such public spaces. They have an opportunity to prevent some deaths here. It just seems practical and logical to me.

BTW, i"m not sure if this is going anywhere, lol.
lol.ok then i will agree to disagree then.
 
Yes the bridge is public space, and while the government is not the solution the government still needs to do it's part, by stepping up patroling bridge.
 
See here's where I don't get the American Psyche - the skepticism of governmetn that is replicated almost nowhere else in the Western culture.

So the bridge is publically owned. Government is in charge of public land, no?


Ok.

Nick, (sigh) have you read anything on line about how badly the government mucks things up? :lol Now, I'm not "that guy" who needs his own talk show to rant about our government, and I don't plan on starting a militia. But I don't trust most of the politicians much. Their motives must always be questioned. Time and time again there a huge bill pushed through Congress, and then you find that the author of the bill has $500,000 going to his home state for something few people knew anything about.

Not everyone distrusts the government, but the number are low that do. Thing is, government has gotten so bloated and complicated, it's impossible to rid it of all abuse. That's part of the reason I support a small government that does less.

Lewis and you seemed to make the same point, so I'll agree that this bridge is in the purview of the state of California. So they built a bridge to get them to and from. Life went on. Eventually, this bridge seemed to be some sort of romantic beacon for people facing despair. I just don't believe the government needs to spring into action to protect people from themselves. Just a differing opinion.
 
Nick, (sigh) have you read anything on line about how badly the government mucks things up? :lol Now, I'm not "that guy" who needs his own talk show to rant about our government, and I don't plan on starting a militia. But I don't trust most of the politicians much. Their motives must always be questioned. Time and time again there a huge bill pushed through Congress, and then you find that the author of the bill has $500,000 going to his home state for something few people knew anything about.

Not everyone distrusts the government, but the number are low that do. Thing is, government has gotten so bloated and complicated, it's impossible to rid it of all abuse. That's part of the reason I support a small government that does less.

Lewis and you seemed to make the same point, so I'll agree that this bridge is in the purview of the state of California. So they built a bridge to get them to and from. Life went on. Eventually, this bridge seemed to be some sort of romantic beacon for people facing despair. I just don't believe the government needs to spring into action to protect people from themselves. Just a differing opinion.
Sigh.
Of course governments need to be held accountable. The Australian government isn't doing a great job, and the opposition is a terrible alternative.

I'm saying that at least people outside the US take the government on what they say they're going to do, and punish them afterwards if they've messed up.
 
Yes the bridge is public space, and while the government is not the solution the government still needs to do it's part, by stepping up patroling bridge.
We're still talking about LA right? LA is the city that has so little money they cannot even pay patrol officers to stay even ten minutes overtime in order to finish paperwork. It's the city that requires officers to stop making arrests at least an hour before their shift ends so as not to run the clock. It's the city that puts two entire departments on celebrity and tourist homicides but cannot find even a single detective to investigate the deaths of all the city residents.

LA doesn't have money to pay the cops to do what they are supposed to do right now, where do you expect them to get the money to keep patrol a bridge? The state? California is in so much debt that it's not even laugh anymore. They may not be literally sinking into the sea, but they are sure sinking and sinking fast!

The point still remains, preventing people from committing suicide will only prevent them from killing themselves by jumping off the golden gate, it doesn't stop suicides, it just takes them out of the public eye. It's like when a wife tries to hide her bruises from an abusive husband. The abuse doesn't stop, it just goes unnoticed, and frankly the wife is worse off by hiding her bruises because no one will be any the wiser to her predicament.

If you patrol all the noteworthy places that people choice to kill themselves at than they will just go somewhere harder to find and than it will get shuffled to the back of some local tabloid and no one will care because it doesn't make the 7 o'clock news. Heck it's probably better that people kill themselves where the media will report about it because at least than it puts suicide into the public light. You're not going to stop people from killing themselves, so why not at least use those who do die in order to bring attention to a serious problem?

Nick,

Not to beat the abusive household situation to a pulp (no pun intended), but let's put it to use once more.

You are suggesting that the citizens should trust the government everytime it says something, whether it is a lie or not. And then if it is a lie the citizens can get angry. That's like a wife trusting her husband everytime he says "I promise, I don't know what happened, but I will not hurt you again." Guess what? Maybe a week, maybe a month, maybe even a year later that guy will fall back on his "promise" and beat her again.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Fool me three times and I might as well go jump off the golden gate bridge because I clearly will never get wise to your lies and will end up living the rest of my life getting screwed, over and over...
 
Pard the Golden Gate Bridge is in San Francisco.

Golden Gate Bridge History And Information


Possibly the most famous bridge in the world, here is the history and construction of the Golden Gate Bridge, as well as the planning concept behind the architectural marvel.

The Golden Gate Bridge links San Francisco with Marin County in absolute splendor. The bridge is one of the architectural marvels of the Twentieth Century and a testament to human strife, as it was constructed during the years of the Great Depression. For years, the Golden Gate Bridge held the title as the longest suspension bridge in the world.

Before its completion in 1937, the bridge was considered impossible to build, due to persistently foggy weather, 60-mile-per-hour winds, and strong ocean currents, which whipped through a deep canyon below. In fact, the bridge is commonly known as the "Bridge that couldn't be built." Despite these unforgiving natural elements, the bridge was constructed in a little more than four years. The total cost was $35 million. The total length of the bridge spans 1.2 miles. Eleven men lost their lives during the construction of the bridge.

Even today, the massive spans of the bridge are often shrouded in fog. The bridge sways 27 feet to withstand winds of up to 100 miles per hour. International Orange was the color chosen for the bridge because it blended well with the bridge's natural surroundings. The two great cables extending from the bridge contain 80,000 miles of steel wire, which is enough to circle the equator three times. The concrete poured to cement the bridge into the stormy waters below could have also been used to pave a five-foot sidewalk from New York to San Francisco.


Because of the Golden Gate Bridge, San Francisco is one of the premier skyline cities in the nation. It was a triumphant day in the history of the city when the bridge was completed on May 27, 1937. Over 200,000 people celebrated the grand opening of the Golden Gate Bridge by walking its length. The following day, a dedication ceremony was held to officially christen what would become the architectural trademark of the city. The regular flow of vehicular traffic began the next day.

Efforts to begin the construction on the bridge began as early as 1928. The process would entail the efforts of six counties in Northern California. In 1928, the counties formed a Golden Gate Bridge and Highway District. In 1930, the voters appropriated a $35 million bond issue to finance the building of the bridge. For many years following, Joseph Baerman Strauss, a distinguished engineer, dreamed of raising a span across the Golden Gate. It was in response to his vision that people first started saying that the bridge could not be built. But, amazingly enough, Strauss held fast to his vision, and a span was eventually raised across the Golden Gate Bridge. The actual work on the bridge began on January 5, 1933. It was completed four-and-one-half years later. The result astounded the fiercest of Strauss's critics. To this day, the bridge is admired for its magnitude and beauty.

The bridge is nothing short of a powerful force meant to combat nature. The often mighty winds from the Pacific Ocean are sustained by a mid span swing of 27 feet. The two towers of the bridge rise an impressive 746 feet, which is 191 feet taller than the Washington Monument. The pier of the bridge is only 1,215 feet from the shore, the distance between the two towers that support the cables, which in turn, support the floor of the bridge is 4,200 feet. These two cables are the largest bridge cables ever made at a little over 361 feet in diameter.

Today, pedestrians and bicyclists are still allowed to cross the bridge on pathways with breathtaking views of the city, Alcatraz, and the Marin Headlands. The bridge toll for vehicles is $3 when entering San Francisco.
The first exit of the Marin side of the bridge is Visa Point, which provides a magnificent view of the San Francisco skyline. But, the best way to view the bridge is to walk across. This usually takes about an hour.
http://www.essortment.com/golden-gate-bridge-history-information-21919.html
 
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Suicides on the Golden Gate Bridge
New barriers have eliminated suicides at other landmarks around the world, but were opposed for the Golden Gate Bridge
Suicides


As a suicide prevention initiative, this sign promotes a special telephone available on the bridge that connects to a crisis hotline.


More people commit suicide at the Golden Gate Bridge than at any other site in the world. The deck is approximately 245 feet (75 m) above the water. After a fall of approximately four seconds, jumpers hit the water at some 76 miles per hour (122 km/h). Most jumpers die from impact trauma on contact with the water. The few who survive the initial impact generally drown or die of hypothermia in the cold water.

An official suicide count was kept, sorted according to which of the bridge's 128 lamp posts the jumper was nearest when he or she jumped. By 2005, this count exceeded 1,200 and new suicides were averaging one every two weeks. For comparison, the reported second-most-popular place to commit suicide in the world, Aokigahara Forest in Japan, has a record of 78 bodies, found within the forest in 2002, with an average of 30 a year. There were 34 bridge-jump suicides in 2006 whose bodies were recovered, in addition to four jumps that were witnessed but whose bodies were never recovered, and several bodies recovered suspected to be from bridge jumps. The California Highway Patrol removed 70 apparently suicidal people from the bridge that year.
There is no accurate figure on the number of suicides or successful jumps since 1937, because many were not witnessed. People have been known to travel to San Francisco specifically to jump off the bridge, and may take a bus or cab to the site; police sometimes find abandoned rental cars in the parking lot. Currents beneath the bridge are very strong, and some jumpers have undoubtedly been washed out to sea without ever being seen. The water may be as cold as 47 °F (8 °C).

The fatality rate of jumping is roughly 98%. As of 2006, only 26 people are known to have survived the jump. Those who do survive strike the water feet-first and at a slight angle, although individuals may still sustain broken bones or internal injuries. One young woman, Sara Birnbaum, survived, but returned to jump again and died the second time.[citation needed] One young man survived a jump in 1979, swam to shore, and drove himself to a hospital. The impact cracked several of his vertebrae. On March 10, 2011, 17 year-old Luhe “Otter” Vilagomez from Windsor High School in Windsor, California survived a jump from the bridge, breaking his tailbone and puncturing one lung, though saying his attempt was for "fun" and not suicide.

Engineering professor Natalie Jeremijenko, as part of her Bureau of Inverse Technology art collective, created a "Despondency Index" by correlating the Dow Jones Industrial Average with the number of jumpers detected by "Suicide Boxes" containing motion-detecting cameras, which she claimed to have set up under the bridge. The boxes purportedly recorded 17 jumps in three months, far greater than the official count. The Whitney Museum, although questioning whether Jeremijenko's suicide-detection technology actually existed, nevertheless included her project in its prestigious Whitney Biennial.
Various methods have been proposed and implemented to reduce the number of suicides. The bridge is fitted with suicide hotline telephones, and staff patrol the bridge in carts, looking for people who appear to be planning to jump. Iron workers on the bridge also volunteer their time to prevent suicides by talking or wrestling down suicidal people. The bridge is now closed to pedestrians at night.

Cyclists are still permitted across at night, but must be buzzed in and out through the remotely controlled security gates. Attempts to introduce a suicide barrier had been thwarted by engineering difficulties, high costs, and public opposition. One recurring proposal had been to build a barrier to replace or augment the low railing, a component of the bridge's original architectural design. New barriers have eliminated suicides at other landmarks around the world, but were opposed for the Golden Gate Bridge for reasons of cost, aesthetics, and safety (the load from a poorly designed barrier could significantly affect the bridge's structural integrity during a strong windstorm).

Strong appeals for a suicide barrier, fence, or other preventive measures were raised once again by a well-organized vocal minority of psychiatry professionals, suicide barrier consultants, and families of jumpers after the release of the controversial 2006 documentary film The Bridge, in which filmmaker Eric Steel and his production crew spent one year (2004) filming the bridge from several vantage points, in order to film actual suicide jumps. The film caught 23 jumps, most notably that of Gene Sprague as well as a handful of thwarted attempts. The film also contained interviews with surviving family members of those who jumped; interviews with witnesses; and, in one segment, an interview with Kevin Hines who, as a 19-year-old in 2000, survived a suicide plunge from the span and is now a vocal advocate for some type of bridge barrier or net to prevent such incidents from occurring.
On October 10, 2008, the Golden Gate Bridge Board of Directors voted 14 to 1 to install a plastic-covered stainless-steel net below the bridge as a suicide deterrent. The net will extend 20 feet (6 m) on either side of the bridge and is expected to cost $40–50 million to complete. However, lack of funding could delay the net's construction.
Golden Gate Bridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Nick,

Not to beat the abusive household situation to a pulp (no pun intended), but let's put it to use once more.

You are suggesting that the citizens should trust the government everytime it says something, whether it is a lie or not. And then if it is a lie the citizens can get angry. That's like a wife trusting her husband everytime he says "I promise, I don't know what happened, but I will not hurt you again." Guess what? Maybe a week, maybe a month, maybe even a year later that guy will fall back on his "promise" and beat her again.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Fool me three times and I might as well go jump off the golden gate bridge because I clearly will never get wise to your lies and will end up living the rest of my life getting screwed, over and over...
That's a little bit of an unfair analogy. My point was that if you are so suspicious of the government that you never let them do anything for fear of it being a lie, then nothing will ever get done, and these problems will still continue. There are times for being suspicious, and there are times for saying "let's give this a go and see what happens". Of course, research should be made by the government for the best solution, and the public has the right and responsibility to check the government and hold them to account.

In theory anyway.
 
My bad Lewis. I imagine the same can be said in SF also, but I cannot be sure so I will not make the stretch. I do know the same can be said for more than half of the "big nine" (biggest cities in America). It's a said fact.
 
while i disagree with the premise here on this situation. i wish others see that. we cant go back to 1789. american life has changed to much and from what i have read and also know about the early 20th century life i wouldnt want to live back then.
 
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