Granting repentance for those who oppose

[Rajesh Sahu]

With such ferocity and
anger, I began to realise it was spiritual. And their attacks were such as I was the evil enemy, for some worse than
horrendous disasters or the worst evil. So this was my quandry. Are they saved to speak like this, deluded, judgemental,
hurt, lost?

Yes brother PJ , I also experienced something similar . I felt I was raining on their party. I shared that I was deluded as well by that doctrine for years which I believe was likely crafted by the enemy to deceive. But those who believe that doctrine were not willing to hear anything beyond their understanding. I agree it's spiritual and like you, I too felt it was a trap. I believe the reformed Church needs another reformation. We need to boldly proclaim the true Word

 

[stovebolts]

I believe the reformed Church needs another reformation. We need to boldly proclaim the true Word

Hi, I know this was directed at PJ, but if I may, i believe the Church needs much more than reformation. It needs restoration.

We know that the disciples of Jesus did not understand all of his words until the time their minds were opened up. In a similar way, Saul persecuted Christians until his encounter with our Lord.

What if we simply planted seeds, and let God take control of the growing part? If we actually did that, do you think the Church would be so broken and divided?

Those who said, "Crucify him, let his blood be on us and our children" were the same ones Peter said, "Repent and be baptized.. the promise is to you and your children".

It's all in Gods timing.

 

[PeterJens]

The reason I shared about such odd responses from believers, or even whole discussion forums,
where superficially it appears we follow the same belief system.

But you scrape the surface and there are things missing.
1. Repentance for sin, confessing and working through sinful behaviour to resolution
2. A belief that the believer needs to put on the things of God and do something
3. Primacy of Jesus's words and scripture as the final authority
4. Obedience, holiness, purity, righteousness discussion or direction
5. Being a shinning light to the world through good works
6. Following Jesus

Legalism, brain washing, deception, rooting out the wolves is their mission.

The phrase that is most commenly used is adding to the cross.
So what is actually the consequences or outworking of the cross become the idea we
are blaspheming by adding to the cross and trampling on His work.

Some make their theology so strict, ultra-legalist, no human even empowered by the Holy
Spirit could walk without sinning. The idea is to suggest we are always lost in sin.
We therefore need Christ to be our substitution constantly, so God sees Him rather than
us. I would suggest, through repentance and confession we are continually washed and made
clean, so that there is no problem God seeing us, and Jesus cleanses us literally.

So yes our walk is only possible through Jesus, but we are being refined, transformed, made into
His image daily. Now some might feel, even in other views this is impossible but Paul talks about
being pure, holy, blameless, without spot or blemish.
He calls us to have no hint of sexual immorality, impurity, ungodliness.

For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
1 Thessalonians 4:7

Just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do
for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."
1 Peter 1:15-16

Join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God, who has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace.
2 Tim 8-9

Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.
For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--such a man is an idolater--has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Ephesians 5:1-5

Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
2 Tim 2:22

 

[stovebolts]

The reason I shared about such odd responses from believers, or even whole discussion forums,
where superficially it appears we follow the same belief system.

But you scrape the surface and there are things missing.
1. Repentance for sin, confessing and working through sinful behaviour to resolution
2. A belief that the believer needs to put on the things of God and do something
3. Primacy of Jesus's words and scripture as the final authority
4. Obedience, holiness, purity, righteousness discussion or direction
5. Being a shinning light to the world through good works
6. Following Jesus

I concur, which adds to what I was trying to say in my above post.

I believe we have to be rooted in our identity of who we are in Christ. We have to first and foremost know we are sons and daughters of God and we have a Father who deeply loves us. We have the promise that our sins are forgiven, we don't go through this life alone and He will never leave or forsake us.

If we get that right, we know we belong in Gods family. Jesus message was one of repentance, and he reminds us to take the log out of our own eye before we take the splinter out of our brothers. This means we remember where we came from and what God has done in our lives. God will judge us on the way we judge / treat others, and we ought to take that to heart.

If we believe all of this, then we will actually start to behave in the way Jesus behaved.

This in part is what I mean by restoration. What I see is knowledge of those before us, but it consumes so much of our identity, we loose our true love.

 

[Papa Zoom]

So yes our walk is only possible through Jesus, but we are being refined, transformed, made into
His image daily. Now some might feel, even in other views this is impossible but Paul talks about
being pure, holy, blameless, without spot or blemish.
He calls us to have no hint of sexual immorality, impurity, ungodliness.

I see it this way as well. And the verses you offered demonstrate this well. It's a daily surrendering - at least for me. I especially need Him when I don't feel my faith. Faith isn't a feeling, it's an action. We live out our faith which is to say we "walk in the Lord." That is to say we follow Christ. To follow is to listen to His words and then do them. Starting with love our actions follow. Hope I'm making sense as it's early.

I get really frustrated at Bible study night because there are those that keep saying "there is nothing we can do" and that Jesus did it all. When I bring up doing right conduct and acts of obedience, I get push back because there's "nothing we can do......" This is wrong thinking. There are things we must do. We must love God for example. And then we love others and see them ahead of ourselves. We seek opportunities to serve others, starting at home. We pray and stay in the word. Faith is active. Otherwise, what good is believing? Christianity is a life lived unto God. Not legalisticly but as you said, in obedience to the Word.

 

[OzSpen]

There is a myriad of ways. But the best ways is to first approach a trusted pastor or elder for guidance. From there you can seek out commentaries. But even then you have to test it against what the bible actually says. Ultimately, if you have been blessed by the Holy Spirit He will open your eyes to the things God wants you to know.

Do not rely on your own understanding. That is where people are running into issues. They are coming to some sort of "interpretation" of a specific passage, but it is ultimately their own understanding. It was not imparted to them by the Holy Spirit.

Knotical,

Are you saying that I am not to use the principles of hermeneutics (interpretation) I have just used in understanding your post?

What principles of interpretation have I used to be able to understand your post? I use the same principles in reading articles in the Brisbane Times, The New York Times, my text on Interpreting the Bible (Berkeley Mickelsen), the Bible, and any other piece of literature.

Of course, I seek the Holy Spirit's enlightenment when I'm involved in biblical interpretation, but I don't throw out the other principles of interpreting any piece of literature or any news item on TV or radio news. Those principles are critical in understanding the Bible.

How do I translate and interpret this verse from the Greek NT into English without a knowledge of Greek grammar and English grammar? Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.

Or should I rely only on the Holy Spirit's insight and interpretation?

Oz

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Hi, I know this was directed at PJ, but if I may, i believe the Church needs much more than reformation. It needs restoration.

We know that the disciples of Jesus did not understand all of his words until the time their minds were opened up. In a similar way, Saul persecuted Christians until his encounter with our Lord.

What if we simply planted seeds, and let God take control of the growing part? If we actually did that, do you think the Church would be so broken and divided?

Those who said, "Crucify him, let his blood be on us and our children" were the same ones Peter said, "Repent and be baptized.. the promise is to you and your children".

It's all in Gods timing.

I agree it's all in God's timing. But we have the onus and responsibility to teach the correct gospel , not one where obedience has been blatantly amputated and only easy belief remains ,thus becoming a heresy .PJ nicely explained in the last post on FORUM POLL why the easy believers are doing it. It's the great fear of being condemned if obedience is taken into account ( which it should , Christ taught it. Matthew 7: 18-24, Matthew 28: 18-20, John 15:5-6) in the doctrine of salvation. Thus out of great fear of being judged and the greed to enter heaven " at all costs" the easy Believers chose to take obedience out of the doctrine of salvation leaving them only to believe and you will be saved, which is of course not the true doctrine of the Lord Jesus Christ. If one examines Bible from Genesis to revelation obedience has always been God's Great expectation from mankind whether it was Adam who disobeyed in Genesis or it was Christ's harsh rebuke to all disobedient churches in the book of Revelation one can easily see the same theme flows throughout Bible------ of obedience and God's judgement on Disobedience and sin. In my personal opinion by amputating obedience from the doctrine of salvation, easy Believers are doing exactly what the devil would want us to do -------- become sinful and disobedient and yet believe that our Salvation is secure in the Lord Jesus Christ's death on the cross, conveniently forgetting that Christ's righteousness is imputed only to those who have a repentant FAITH and who are obedient. Peter Jens, Wondering, JLB, myself , Jim Parker, and many others have cited a plethora of verses where it's very evident God expects obedience from every believer. I was surprised to read that many of these easy Believers even claim that there will be no judgement when it's crystal clear all people including Christians will be judged on the last day and Jesus will hand over "rewards" according to what we've done that's what it says in Revelation 22:12
One simple way to understand the importance of obedience is all the Apostles of Jesus Christ , who had initially found it hard to believe what Jesus was teaching, became obedient to the point of death as they spread the gospel and shared it and thanks to their efforts the gospel spread in the world. Had they thought that only Believing was needed to be saved , why did they put their life into danger and endured a lot of suffering for the sake of gospel and the Lord Jesus Christ.

I really do not understand this mad Greed for salvation when there is such a strict warning from Christ about loving Our Lives. Personally speaking about myself I love Jesus for what he did for me I have zero expectations of heaven and that is not my intention for loving Christ before becoming a Christian. I just love Christ for what he did what he taught. Salvation is neither my goal nor my reason to be a Christian . I'd rather His will over mine that whatever his will is, let that be done​

Matthew 16:25

For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it.

I neither have the fear of condemnation,nor the greed for salvation. All I want is Christ's love to remain in me at all times​

 

[stovebolts]

I am closing this thread and creating a temporary moratorium on the topic OSAS or related topics.