Has God ever spoken verbally?

Discussion in 'Theology' started by K2CHRIST, Nov 29, 2017.

  1. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

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    Interesting idea, Eugene. I kind of like the concept in that it represents the trinity. So then, who do you feel the two angels were. Gen 18: 33 - 19:1 As soon as He had finished speaking to Abraham the Lord departed, and Abraham returned to his place. Now the two angels came to Sodom.

    Are the two angels the Son and Spirit, The Father and Son, The Father and Spirit, or two other angels?
     
  2. WIP

    WIP Staff Member Administrator

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    I think you neglected to consider all of the Scripture around Exodus 20:18.

    Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their clothes. And let them be ready for the third day. For on the third day the Lord will come down upon Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people. You shall set bounds for the people all around, saying, ‘Take heed to yourselves that you do not go up to the mountain or touch its base. Whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death. Not a hand shall touch him, but he shall surely be stoned or shot with an arrow; whether man or beast, he shall not live.’ When the trumpet sounds long, they shall come near the mountain.” So Moses went down from the mountain to the people and sanctified the people, and they washed their clothes. And he said to the people, “Be ready for the third day; do not come near your wives.” Then it came to pass on the third day, in the morning, that there were thunderings and lightnings, and a thick cloud on the mountain; and the sound of the trumpet was very loud, so that all the people who were in the camp trembled. And Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain. Now Mount Sinai was completely in smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire. Its smoke ascended like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain quaked greatly. And when the blast of the trumpet sounded long and became louder and louder, Moses spoke, and God answered him by voice. Then the Lord came down upon Mount Sinai, on the top of the mountain. And the Lord called Moses to the top of the mountain, and Moses went up. And the Lord said to Moses, “Go down and warn the people, lest they break through to gaze at the Lord, and many of them perish. Also let the priests who come near the Lord consecrate themselves, lest the Lordbreak out against them.” But Moses said to the Lord, “The people cannot come up to Mount Sinai; for You warned us, saying, ‘Set bounds around the mountain and consecrate it.’” Then the Lord said to him, “Away! Get down and then come up, you and Aaron with you. But do not let the priests and the people break through to come up to the Lord, lest He break out against them.” So Moses went down to the people and spoke to them.

    And God spoke all these words, saying:
    "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
    You shall have no other gods before Me.
    You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
    You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
    Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that isin them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
    Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
    You shall not murder.
    You shall not commit adultery.
    You shall not steal.
    You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
    You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

    Now all the people witnessed the thunderings, the lightning flashes, the sound of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled and stood afar off. Then they said to Moses, “You speak with us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us, lest we die.” And Moses said to the people, “Do not fear; for God has come to test you, and that His fear may be before you, so that you may not sin.” So the people stood afar off, but Moses drew near the thick darkness where God was.

    The way I read this, God delivered His 10 Commandments to the people directly and not through Moses.
     
  3. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

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    You notice that Paul wrote questions! Kind of like I started the thread with a question.

    It does say to desire the gifts, and if you ask don't you receive. It also is written that if you abide in His word then what ever you ask you get. And it is also written that when tongues came down all heard in their own language, but now we don't see that. And also is it written that let the one who speaks in a tongue pray the he might interpret. So if we are keeping all the instructions, then all should be hearing the Spirit, but we don't see that, Isn't the problem that we don't all listen like we should.

    Is 9:13 Yet the people do not turn back to Him who struck them, nor do they seek the Lord of hosts.
     
  4. Eugene

    Eugene Staff Member Moderator

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    Did Jesus speak these words personally to you, or the apostles. For instance, who are we to follow, and what shall we be judged by?
    Do we as the body of Christ see those words from Jesus, or even hear them verbally?
    Now have I suspected the very communication given me in a time of need was the Lord? Very much yes. I've picked up a child with its neck broken at 90 degrees after falling approx nine feet onto its head on concrete, and prayed and it immediately recovered and began crying. I've prayed for a fellow worker crushed between a concrete wall and a runaway forklift after I got him free, and he immediately started breathing. God put the urgency on me to pray whether I heard it or felt it; I know at the moment that I didn't read it.
     
  5. WIP

    WIP Staff Member Administrator

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    My NKJV Bible colors a lot of words in the Gospels and Revelation in red as they are the words of God. And it says He spoke to multitudes.
     
  6. Eugene

    Eugene Staff Member Moderator

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    Have you received all the gifts of the Spirit?
     
  7. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

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    I read all of that, and I see where God spoke to them and they knew God spoke to them, but I don't see where they understood what He has said. Indeed Moses later writes,

    Deut 29:4 Yet to this day the Lord has not given you a heart to know, nor eyes to see, nor ears to hear.

    So did Moses lie and the people did actually hear the words of the Lord, or did the words God speak come across as thunder instead of audible words?

    Since both Scriptures have to be correct, it seems to me that God speaking came across as thunder. That is the people feel and knew the presence of God but were not actually hearing the words, and I believe that is because they were not audible words but spiritual words and they had not yet be given spiritual ears to hear.
     
  8. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

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    I think you missed part of the OP

    "Jesus took on flesh and at that time He, God even the living Word of God, spoke using sound waves, but what about to the prophets in the Old testament or Paul in the New testament?"

    Jesus Christ, the Word of God who took on flesh, of course spoke sound wave. Of course it is still interesting that He was speaking sound wave to the Pharisees and told them they did not hear His words! So even then it was not the sounds waves that came forth from God but hearing with your spiritual ears the words that God speaks.

    Jn 8:43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.
    Jn 8:47 He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God
    Jn 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life' the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

    So, since the audible words we hear are hear from our fleshy ears, can hearing with our fleshy ears profit us?
     
  9. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

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    Yes, I asked for all of them and have been used in all of them. Not that He has me in what we might call of the offices. That is: I believe there are the gifts of the spirit and offices in the church, or even a church, that God uses people for. So there maybe someone, or some, in the or a church that God (by His wisdom) uses for say teaching, wisdom, prophecy, healing, and so forth, but all should be able to be used in all the ways if and since we all have or should have the Holy Spirit. Remember that all the spiritual gifts or just manifestations of the same spirit.

    For example: I have a very poor physical singing voice, so it is not surprising that He has never used me to sing in tongues at church, but in my car by myself He certainly has.
     
  10. Edward

    Edward Member

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    He spoke to me in an audible voice, so, yes, think so. He only did it the one time, many other times I have trouble hearing the unctions and stuff. But I do here and there. I'm getting better I think. But that one time that he spoke to me audibly it was a time sensitive issue so He spoke loud enough to instantly remove all doubt as to who is talking here. Even though I had never heard His audible voice before, I did recognize it to be the Lord. I know His voice. Scripture says His sheep know His voice and I did. I can't explain it, but I did.

    You will too if He wants to talk to you. I expect it myself. I know prayer is a dialogue and not a monologue. One of these times, He's going to materialize right in front of me and I hope I'm ready for Him. :)

    I think all believers should expect the Lord will show up to them at some point. Scripture says He will. Don't be surprised if He walks through the wall and says Hi! :woot2
     
  11. Douglas Summers

    Douglas Summers Member

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    I understand your thought. But is it possible that, that is the way God wanted to do it?
     
  12. Eugene

    Eugene Staff Member Moderator

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    Gen 18:13 And the LORD said unto Abraham . . . . Was this our Father?
    Gen 18:16 And the men (All three?) rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom . . .
    Gen 18:17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do . . Was this our Father talking to Jesus and the holy Spirit?
    Gen 18:22 And the men (All three?) turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD. (Again all three?)
    Gen 18:33 And the LORD (Again; all three men) went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham . . .

    Gen 19:16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they (Two or three) brought him forth, and set him without the city. I really do not know all the answers at this time, and a guess would be purely speculative.
    Gen 19:18 And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord: Lot did address the angels as Lord and was answered in:
    Gen 19:21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken. :shrug
     
  13. Traveling teacher

    Traveling teacher Member

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    I do believe that God speaks to us the exact same way He spoke to everyone in the OT and NT
    All these are mentioned in the Bible
    Dreams and visions....
    Scripture....
    Small still voice.....
    Prophesies....
    Words of wisdom and counsel from others....
    Preachers and teachers....
    Prophesies
    Prayer..........

    I believe we get tripped up if we only think God speaks to us in 1 way...
    Example
    Only thru scripture...
    Or only thru prophesy....
     
  14. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

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  15. Douglas Summers

    Douglas Summers Member

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  16. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

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    Douglas Summers Need to keep you around not many here are older then me :)

    I am 71
     
  17. Douglas Summers

    Douglas Summers Member

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    We have seen a lot of social and moral decay in our time. I can remember when going to visit grandma was like a holiday. The music was better back then. Gas was 25 cents a gallon. 57 Chevy, 60 Impala, 63 Chevy SS. Mostly everyone knew their neighbors and looked out for each others kids. Playing in the yard with your cousins in the evening (Catching lightning bugs) while the adults sat on the porch talking, Drive in theaters, No burning the American flag and the majority of people and families believed and worshiped God. Most stores closed on Sunday, And cleaner air. Just a few of the things I remember that was good, now that I look back at them.
     
  18. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

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    Gen 18:13 And the Lord said to Abram, "Why did Sarah laugh, saying 'Shall I indeed bear a child, when I am so old?

    Was this our Father? I believe "The Lord" speaking here is the Christ! David wrote, "The Lord said to my Lord". So the Christ was David's Lord but he heard the Lord talking to his Lord. And we confess Jesus Christ as Lord (Rm 10:9). So I don't believe we talking about the Father but the Son,

    And we see in Gen 15: that the word of the Lord appeared to Abraham and again we know from Rev 19:13 That the one clothed in a robe dipped in blood (Jesus - not the Father) is name "The Word of God" So I also believe that it was the Christ appearing and speaking to Abram in Gen 15, thus it was the Christ whom Abraham called his Lord, just like David called the Christ his Lord, and we call the Christ our Lord.

    So, I personally believe our Lord Jesus Christ showed up with two angels. I believe angels can sometimes be though of as men like in Daniel when Gabriel appeared with the Lord.

    Dan 9:21 while I was speaking I prayer, then the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision previously cam to me

    Now we know Jesus is King of kings and thus instructs angels. And God, being omni-present, can certainly communicate with angels at all times. So in Gen 19:16, the angels talking hold of Lots family would been according to the instructions of the Lord and thus His mercy. So to assume that because it refers to the Lord's mercy it means the Lord God was taking hold and not two angels is just that, an assumption.

    And in 19:18 the NASB reads, "But Loy said to them, "Oh no, my lords! - as does the Amplified and the NIV - so apparently there is some difference in translations.

    Anyway, that all said I find your thoughts interesting! Thanks Eugene
     
  19. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

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    I believe God communicates in all the above ways.

    Certainly saying that can be just a case of semantics, but if reading the Scriptures are hearing the voice of God then reading the Scriptures would give you eternal life, since Jesus said His words are spirit and are life. But we know that is not the case because Jesus told the Jews that they were searching the Scriptures thinking in them they has life instead of coming to Him so they might live (Jn 5:39,4)

    So while saying reading the Scriptures is God speaking to you, might be semantics, getting the idea that reading the Scriptures fulfills the requirement for listening to His voice, like in His sheep hear His voice, can be a deadly mistake!! We need to know the Lord. We need to hear His voice, and His words are spirit, not ink on pages!
     
  20. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

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    I once heard Him in what I thought was an audible voice, but I don't think it was now. And two other times I heard what seemed audible voices, but I also don't believe it the case.

    The first time was when He first spoke to me, He said "Read Your Bible" and there was so much power in it that it felt like someone hit me in the side of the head. Of course thinking about it later, and audible voice could not have felt that way not mater how loud. A large explosion would hit with power but not like His voice hit me then.

    Another time I laid back on my couch to take a nap and I heard praise music start playing. I thought a neighbor in an apartment around me must have turned it on. So I got up to figure out which neighbor like Christian music, but when I got up I couldn't hear it. So I lay myself back down and again I heard the music clear. And again I got up and again it went away. So again I lay myself down another time and listened close. It had to be audible music, but again I got up and I couldn't't hear it. That time I even went to all the walls in my apartment and put my ear to them, but still not sound. Finally I lay myself down one last time, realizing it was spiritual music and went to sleep. So was that sound waves. definitely not! But it sure sounded like it.

    And there was another time when a spiritual voice called my name, and woke me up. There was nobody around, but I heard my name called clearly. It seemed like the Lord wanted me up.

    So did anyone else actually hear the "audible voice" when you heard it? I would love to know.

    I have talked to other Christians, but as of yet I have not found someone who another person and them were hearing and audible voice from God at the same time.

    At first it doesn't seem important to know, but when Jesus said His words are spirit and life, and also told the Pharisees that He was talking to that they did not hear His words because they were of the devil, then it becomes important. If His words are sound waves, then He would be wrong to say His words are spirit. And if His audible voice was hearing the spiritual words then the Pharisees would have been sheep that hear His voice.

    Since we have to live by faith, there must be words that can only be picked up by hearing with faith! They could sound audible but they can't be audible or else it is not by faith, is it?
     

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