Has God ever spoken verbally?

Discussion in 'Theology' started by K2CHRIST, Nov 29, 2017.

  1. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

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    God being God is not limited by our understanding of science/spirits/dreams... He can speak to us or who ever or what ever, any way He chooses ..
    A voice .. His Word .. a vision.. a dream.... what we might call a thought.. ..another person or persons ... He is God He alone is the limitations
     
  2. Douglas Summers

    Douglas Summers Member

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    Just a note to us all, just because The Father has not spoken audibly to me or you, does not mean He has not spoken to others audibly.
     
  3. Jim Parker

    Jim Parker Member

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    Moses didn’t hear thunder; he heard words. If he had heard only thunder then we would not have the law.

    Ex 20:1-3 And God spoke all these words, saying: “I Am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.
    That is a metaphor describing the condition of their hearts in that they were not prepared to receive, believe, and act on what they heard.
    They might not have heard God who was using the thunder, lightning, earthquakes, and trumpets to demonstrate that they were not dealing with just anyone. But they did hear the words which Moses heard when he recited God’s commands to them and they declared that they would obey all of it.

    Ex 24:7 Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read in the hearing of the people. And they said, “All that the Lord has said we will do, and be obedient.”
    Consider:
    Mat 3:17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” (Also Mark 1:11 and Luke 3:22)
    That seems to have been audible.

    And Mat 17:5 While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!” (Also Mark 9:7 and Luke 9:35)
    That seems to have been audible.
    I agree with that assessment. I believe that is a pretty common occurrence for people who actually want to hear from God. Perhaps it is the Spirit of God speaking within us.

    And, based on the description of how the word of the Lord came to the prophets, that may have been Moses’ experience as well.

    There are many times in the OT when it says that “the Spirit of the Lord came upon” someone as at 2Ch24:20: Then the Spirit of God came upon Zechariah the son of Jehoiada the priest, who stood above the people, and said to them, “Thus says God:….”

    So with the two exceptions of when the voice from heaven was heard at Jesus’ baptism and the voice came from the cloud at the transfiguration, I think you have something there.



    Iakov the fool
     
  4. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

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    You did not provided evidence, you provided a supposition! And the discussion is not really about sound waves traveling in space but about whether God's voice is audible, as in coming to us via sound waves.

    So again let me point out that the bible records Jesus as saying that His words are spirit.

    Second, let me point out that His sheep hear His voice, and that we have in Christianity something we call the small voice, which we pick up coming to us from within us.

    Third, Paul and Moses wrote that the Word is near us in our heart and on our lips, not in our ears. And that is the Word of God we are preaching (Rm 10)

    Fourth, which was part of this, the excepted scientific belief right now is that sound waves do not travel in space. Look it up. That is the generally excepted and generally published scientific belief right now. Which does not mean there could not be those that argue that. There are always those people. And that is not necessarily bad, because the Bible says that men will go back and forth and that knowledge will increase. So the back and forth that men do to produce increased knowledge (and they have always done that in history) is understood. Thus I'm not arguing that the current scientific belief is right or wrong but only that our current scientific understanding supports all the above! And I even pointed out that if all things were created by God by His word, how then did that voice travel if sound waves need a physical medium to travel in? Even you pointing out that we are starting to believe that there is more in space than we thought, so perhaps one day we might conclude sound waves can travel in space in not applicable if nothing had yet been created. Perhaps you missed that?
     
  5. WIP

    WIP Staff Member Administrator

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    First, I'm not supposing anything. It has been proven by NASA that sound can and does travel through space. These sounds are not audible to us because they are at such low frequencies that we are not able to detect them with our ears.

    Second, it was you that used the argument that sound doesn't travel through space but that's not necessarily true. Since that is not proven true, I don't see how that is a valid argument against being able to hear God audibly.

    Besides who are we talking about here? God can do what He wants when He wants to do it. If He desires to make an audible sound in a perfect vacuum, He can do so. That would be a cakewalk. Using human experience and understanding to prove that God couldn't speak to us audibly is not a solid position.

    Throughout Scripture we can read of multiple events where God spoke audibly to people and many have already been posted. Our little side argument is foolishness so I won't take this any further.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017 at 2:01 PM
  6. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

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    I understand your point. All things are possible with God, so I started the OP with a question.

    However, if Jesus said His words are spirit, do we not then make Him a liar if we start saying that are not spirit.

    C S Lewis wrote a book called the Problem of Pain. In it he covers an interesting point about what "all things are possible with God" can mean. Briefly, if God says He can't lie, is lying now a possibility with God? I supposed He could except that He said He couldn't.

    And we see something interesting when Jesus shows up in Nazareth. He says He can't do great miracles there! If all things are possible with God, how can He say He can't? It had something to do with their faith, because He said because of their lack of faith. Now didn't God establish that we must live by faith? So then, for God to change that would mean again He would be a liar, but it is written that He can lie.

    So we see this in several places where perhaps all things are possible with God, but He has said certain things already and they must be! So if Jesus, who is the Word of God, said that His words are spirit we have a problem if we start making them otherwise.

    Of course we see that interesting conflict right exactly when Jesus said His words are spirit, because He was speaking in an audible voice. However, He also, (as recorded in John) used an audible voice to tell the religious leaders that they didn't understand what He said because they could not hear His voice. So they were certainly hearing the Word of God's audible voice, but were not hearing?? So how does that make sense?? Is it not because while they were hearing with their physical ears, they were not hearing with the spiritual ears?

    And this is why I am writing. We need to be pointing people to that spiritual voice which we hear inside us. Yet too often I see Christians start making it about some "Audible" voice. Well, if it is the voice of God we need to be hearing, it is not sound waves but is the Spirit of God speaking to our spirit, not our physical ears but our spiritual ears. I have heard Him speak to me where it sounded audible, but I don't think it was audible. And I look at the Bible and think the same thing happed often in the Bible.

    It doesn't look like Saul heard an audible voice on the road. Those with him picked up something but were not sure what was said. Why not? Wasn't it because, though they were close to Saul and even perceived a light, they still didn't have ears to hear? Which is a problem recorded over and over in the Bible.

    And the God's people, whom Moses brought to the mountain, had the same problem. Moses told them that to that day God and not yet given them ears to hear.

    And Samuel hears a voice calling his name, and seems to think it was audible, but Eli didn't hear it, and by his actions seemed to understand that he would not be able to because it was God calling to Samuel by s spiritual voice.

    And all that matches up with what I see in when I minister with other Christian who are also hearing form the Lord, like me, as we minister. And so why are we telling people there is an audible voice. It seems like we lack understanding. We are supposed to be preaching the Word is near you, in you heart and on your lips. But we wind up preaching an audible voice and trying to defend it???
     
  7. Douglas Summers

    Douglas Summers Member

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    People who are religious zealots are not always born again believers and can (by their zeal) have a strong self willed spirit that can make them feel that God has called them ahead of everyone else. I know of a women that was present at a car accident and ran over to one of the critically injured people and started putting their hands of them and trying to heal them. Others play with snakes to show their trust in Christ. Satan uses any vessel He can to give God a bad name and destroy faith making Christianity look like a sham. Some of these people claim they hear from God. Other just an interpretation of the scriptures to their own will, or by Satan's influence. But you are right about the Scriptures, The Holy Spirit is the word of God and reveals and brings to the believer the things of Christ through the Father. (John 16:12-15) . Verbal or through conformation by the invisible but the ever present influence of The Spirit. How do you know if it's the Spirit or your imagination? With me, I know because he is not a random thought or idea, but He is a constant propitiate or comforter and illuminator of the Scriptures. Too many prayers answered not to be. It is the word of God
     
  8. Papa Zoom

    Papa Zoom Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. What difference does it all make? God does speak to us and the details don't seem all that important.
     
  9. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

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    agree
     
  10. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

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    This isn't a scientific debate but a debate about the audible voice of God. But since you insist.

    Can you hear sound waves in space?

    The following is copied off the net:

    "NASA Actually Recorded Sound In Space, And It’s Absolutely Chilling
    Interesting
    Can you hear sounds in space? Now you’ve probably heard that there’s no sound in space, but technically that’s not true.

    Now yes, space is a virtual vacuum….. However, sound does exist in the form of electromagnetic vibrations that pulsate in similar wavelengths.

    What NASA did was design special instruments that could record these electromagnetic vibrations, and transferred them into sounds that our ears could hear."

    Notice that part about technically that's not true. It lead to the follow spot on the net - which I copied for you:

    "Sound travels in waves like light or heat does, but unlike them, sound travels by making molecules vibrate. So, in order for sound to travel, there has to be something with molecules for it to travel through. On Earth, sound travels to your ears by vibrating air molecules. In deep space, the large empty areas between stars and planets, there are no molecules to vibrate. There is no sound there."

    Now I decided that because I already pointed out that according to the Bible men go to and from and knowledge is increased, I figured I'd take a moment to go back and forth with you, but it really is not what the OP is about. So in the above we see there are electromagnetic vibrations the pulsate in similar wavelengths, and NASA could and did make an instrument to transfer them into sound that our ears could hear, but if they had to be transferred then they are not sound waves. So perhaps technically you can say that there is sound in space but it is not audible to us. So it is sound waves, considering that sound travels by making molecules vibrate? No, you can't hear them with your ears, but NASA can transfer them into sound that you can hear.

    Now, according to the Bible God spoke and things were created. Was is in audible sound waves, since there was no air? It could be that He caused electromagnetic vibrations, but I'm not saying He voice is that. I'm not sure how I pick up His voice, but it is not sound waves, that if for sure. Though I have heard His voice come across loud enough to me where I thought it was sound waves. But since God said He voice was spirit, and I don't think He is a liar and I do think God can be trusted to say things correctly, then His voice is not in sound waves. Perhaps it is electromagnetic vibrations or something similar, but I doubt it! NASA might have picked up something. I don't believe God's voice is of this physical realm at all.

    The problem I run across, is that people (even me) tend to think in physical terms instead of spiritual terms. If fact I believe that is exactly the reason Jesus asked and told the Pharisees that they didn't understand what He was saying because they didn't hear His words. Why are some posting here not understanding what I am saying?

    Jn 8:43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.

    I believe that if any person was indeed hearing the Lord's voice everyday that is called "Today" then they must sure understand that He is not talking to them in sound waves!! So to correctly understand the Bible you must listen to Him and learn from Him! Leaning on your own understanding and a person's experience in the physical realm would lean a person to thinking God spoke to Saul with a audible voice, but those with him picked up something but not the words spoken, And those at the mountain with Moses heard something, certainly something like thunder, but Moses explained to them that God had not given them ears to hear. I don't think Moses lied to them. God had not given them ears to hear. So when the other prophets in the Bible talk about hearing from God was it by sound waves or by the Spirit of God?

    I do believe God could, kind of like NASA, transfer His voice into sound waves that we can hear, but since Jesus specifically said His words are spirit, and I don't believe Jesus was wrong, His words must be spiritual words not sounds waves. That would explain why those with Saul did not hear the words Jesus spoke to Saul on the road, and why Moses had to explain that they had not yet been given ears to hear, and allsorts of other things in the Bible.
     
  11. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

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    Wouldn't you be disagreeing with Jesus who said His words are spirit?

    Jn 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life

    I agree that God would be able to produce a voice in sound waves, except that He said His words are spirit, so to do that would make Him wrong, and I don't believe God does things that make Him wrong!

    People like to say God does not contradict His Word then seem to present something that clearly contradicts what is written.

    So do you think perhaps Jesus meant to say, "usually the words that I have spoken to you are spirit"? Because that seems to be the conclusion you are making.

    I don't think it really so important if in fact at some point God did say an audible word, except that we are supposed to be leading people to Jesus Christ! And if we start pointing people to His words being audible, then we have mislead them since His words are spirit, and I see that as a serious problem! Also, I don't think Jesus lies. So His words are spirit! -- and they are life! So I personally don't like it when I see people making it about hearing and audible voice from God. I believe it only cause people to look for the Lord where they shouldn't, and they should be seeking His spiritual voice everyday. Do that makes a difference!! But God's people have a history of not doing that!

    PS - I especially find it sad when it is our leaders leading the way to making it about and audible voice! I feel, they of all people should understand about His voice being spirit, and that spiritual voice being life to those that hear!!
     
  12. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

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    What you are talking about Douglas is discernment of spirits, which is an excellent topic. It is not this topic, but I love taking about this issue of discernment of spirits. It is not an easy topic, but we have very definite test in the Bible ( 1 JN 4: 1-3) and are specifically told to test the spirits. But I find very few Christians using this test, and the test requires hearing with your spiritual ears! So how often do you ask the spirits you hear from with your spiritual ears to confess the Jesus Christ came in the flesh?? I find very few Christians that can tell me they have ever used that test, as specifically instructed to do in the Bible! Many rarely even hear with their spiritual ears, so how can they use the test, since it requires hearing with their spiritual ears.

    So there is a bigger problem recorded in the Bible, and that is the problem of people not seeking the voice of God!! That is the bigger problem. You can't have the problem you are talking about unless you have over come the bigger problem of not seeking God and His voice first!!!! And as this topic is about: His words are spirit.

    So first, I try to get them to seek our Lord Jesus Christ and His words for them. It is written that all those who seek find, and since we are talking about salvation and perhaps as important, a personal relationship with God, first they must start seeking the Lord. That means hearing with their spiritual ears.

    Now back to discernment of spirit, please note that the first words that snake in the garden said were, "Did God really say?" Satan has lots of devices, but his first is to get you doubting whether we can really hear from God. And frankly a lot of what you have written Douglas is about doubting our ability to hear God!

    We can have the problem of fearing the devil instead of fearing God!

    For example: Do you really think it was wrong for a person to trying to heal a person by pray during an accident? You wrote: " I know of a women that was present at a car accident and ran over to one of the critically injured people and started putting their hands of them and trying to heal them." This sound wonderful to me. I doubt the woman was trying to move the person, but was praying for healing, and is that bad?? So why was it written, since we know prayer (seeking God) is good? We are not fearing Satan are we, even to the point that we might not even pray for someone in definite need? In fact, can we say or even think as a Christians, that God didn't hear the woman's prayer and take some action on it at some point? I want to point out that God's ways are not our ways, so just because we don't see an instant miracle like we might think, it does not mean God did not or is not going to take some actions based upon our request. Frankly, I really don't like that idea that someone praying at an accident is presented as a bad idea.

    Now the Bible is good for reading and studying. We find things like those first words by Satan and also things like do not test God. So the snake handling idea seems like a very poor idea to me, where as prayer is a good idea. That is what I read when I read the Bible. Still, I read a whole lot about listening to the Lord and hearing His voice. And God does speak, but His words are spirit

    Now you asked How do you know if it's the Spirit or your imagination?


    I love the question, by the way. There are a number of ways and how I handle things. I would love to really cover that well, but first I want people listening to Him. Still, let me answer it quickly. First there is the test in 1 Jn 4:1-3 I mentioned already. It is really interesting when you ask a spirit to tell you Jesus Christ came in the flesh only to be told "I can't tell you that." Of course often the spirit quickly leaves, and other things are also said. Evil spirits are beings, and like any of us, they can respond differently. Yet, before getting to that question, you have to be aware what is going on in the spirit realm around you. So practice listening is important. Check out the last verses in Hebrews chapter 5. You will read about people being dull of hearing and that by practice we learn to discern good from evil. So practice listening with our spiritual ears is important. Then we also must realize the discernment is a gift of the Spirit. We are all supposed to be taught of God, but teaching takes time. So the we are taught when we listen, and the Lord loves to go over both the things in the Bible and the things we come across in this world personally. So talking and reasoning with the Lord is very important!

    And I have those same concerns. I once was talking to Him about this exact problem and told Him, "Lord, I can use the test to check to see if it is a demon but how can I know if it is You or me." He told me, "Karl, you will know it is me when the whole world lines up with what I say."

    In the Bible we sometimes see the phrase, "So you will know that I am God."

    In my seventeen years talking back and forth with the Lord, He has told me many things. Sometimes I was not sure about them, but when they came to pass I then knew it was Him. For example, a year or so after I started talking to Him He started telling me about a healing ministry He was going to put me in. He told me that a number of times, and frankly, I really didn't want to do it. Never-the-less about ten years later He put me into a healing ministry. It is awesome to be sure, but frankly, I still don't really want to do it. You fell like you have to perform, though nothing could be father from the truth. To do is right, you have to listen to Him and just do what He tells you and let Him do what He is going to do. And He does so much that it blows you away regularly. Still, there comes back that thought that you have to perform. It comes from that same type of source that says praying at an accident it bad.

    So yes, we all do battle with powers and those dark forces, or as you wrote "Satan uses any vessel He can to give God a bad name". That any vessel is us, because we find the principle that evil dwell is us (as in us including you and I - the battle is ours not the women or snake handler but ours) Rm 7:20,21 ...but sin which dwells in me. I find the then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

    So to bring it back to the topic in the OP - we need to seek the words of God, and we find the Word of God in our heart and on our lips, not in our physical ears. And that is the Word of God we are preaching. So we need to listen inside us, and Douglas is correct to point out that when we start listening we need to use some discernment, but needing some discernment is not a reason to not seek the voice of the Lord. It is written that all those that seek find, and something about if you ask God for bread, are you going to get a stone? My friends, if you seek the voice of the Lord you will get the Lord Jesus Christ who is the bread the true bread that comes down out of heaven!

     
  13. WIP

    WIP Staff Member Administrator

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    So are you saying then that when Jesus delivered His Sermon on the Mount, he didn't speak audibly for all to hear? I also wonder if you're taking John 6:63 out of context. Jesus was speaking about the eating of His flesh and drinking of His blood. The words He spoke to them were audible to their human ears.
     
  14. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

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    in John chapter 8 Jesus is speaking to Jews in the same audible voice He used at the Sermon on the Mount and told them they could not hear His words. So the words we must hear are not audible words!!

    In fact Jesus specifically ask them why they did not understand what He was saying and then told them it was because they could not her His words. So how is it that is seem hard for people to understand that His words are spirit, today? Could it be that today, people are having the same problem of not hearing His spiritual words? Why is it Christians seem often to be looking for an audible word from God? Why does it seem like they just don't understand what I am saying on this thread? Is it because they can not hear His words?

    It seems to me if a person was listening to the Lord speaking to us through the Holy Spirit to our spirit they would easily understand the point I am making. We are seeking God who is spirit! Because He is spirit, His words are spiritual words. Because they are spiritual words we do not hear them with our physical ears, but our spiritual ears. And so the Word of God we are preaching is in our heart and on our lips, and not by way of our physical ears. This seems rather basic information and should come under the milk of the gospel, but some seem to be in need of it, just like those Pharisees need it as recorded in John 8

    Jn 8:37 I know that you are Abraham's descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you.
    Jn 8:43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.
    Jn 8:47 He who is of God hears the words of God for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.

    Now I heard from the Lord daily, and usually about a dozen times a day. And I once heard Him where I thought at first it was clearly an audible voice, but later I realized though it sounded audible it could not have been. Those words had hit me like someone hit me in the side of the head, but while they came across incredibly powerful it was not quiet like an audible sound wave, perhaps similar to an explosion. The effect of power did not actually vibrate in my though it shook me up good. And two other times I heard spiritual voices that I thought were audible, not that they shook me but I thought they were sound waves, but after examination and consideration, they could not have been. Nobody was around close enough, and one of the two times I could clearly hear it like audible music but only when I was lying down and not when I got up. And I checked it several times but lying down then getting up.
     
  15. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

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    The Christ showed up in the flesh and spoke to people saying things like His sheep hear His voice and His words are spirit and are life. So all the people that Jesus spoke to must have been saved, right? Wrong!

    God is spirit and we must hear those words. His sheep hear spiritual words that God speaks to them. You would think the leaders in the church would understanding this, but most of the leaders when Jesus showed up in the flesh did not understand this. and that was shy Jesus had to explain that His sheep hear His voice, but also that His words are spirit and are life.

    If you are indeed hearing His voice everyday that is called "Today", and that is the day you should hear His voice because He never leaves you, then you would certainly understand this! So has God's voice ever been audible? Not the voice that saves you! Yes, Jesus took on flesh in what we call the first coming, and thus spoke with an audible voice, but those spoken words did not save anyone. They did not take faith to hear. But we are to live by faith, and you have to have faith to hear the spiritual words God speaks to you. You find those words on your lips and on your heart, but only if you have the faith and understanding to believe it.

    The Bible can give you the wisdom to seek the Lord by faith. You can read that His words are spirit. But I meet people who study the Bible and did not acquire the wisdom to seek the Lord by faith. Often they tend to believe in a far off God. They say in their hearts the God is not near them, so as to be able to talk to them. And since they believe that way, they can not grasp the notion that people can and actually do hear the Lord speaking to them daily! And that problem shows up in varying degrees.

    I have meet pastors how explain they have at some time heard the small voice of the Lord, but in their life it is very rare, maybe a time or two. That shows the level of their faith, because the Lord is always with them. They often know that it the since that they have read it, but they don't believe it or else they would of course then ask Him questions and hear Him answer them, because of their faith. But they don't ask expecting to receive and answer, because they don't believe that God speaks. They read that God speaks. Isaiah made that very clear, and others who wrote the Scriptures also, but they don't believe it. Again, you can tell by their actions and by what they say.

    So I write. I hear and I write. I get instructions, both general and specific instructions to write. Again this morning, I got a specific instruction to come to the forum and write. And though the message is simple, the explanation is hard because people, even God's chosen people, are not practicing seeking and listening to the voice of the Lord Jesus Christ who has not left them! He has sent them His Spirit to talk to their spirit and the Lord speaks. So the problem is that some are not listening! And you can not hear His words if you don't hear with faith! So where is their faith at if they don't understand that God's words are spirit, not sound waves? They don't understand because they can not hear His words, because of their faith! They simply don't believe God will speak to them, today
     
  16. WIP

    WIP Staff Member Administrator

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    Interesting information. I will consider.

    You say you hear the voice of God and that must be totally wonderful. I cannot honestly say that I have ever heard God speak to me directly, audibly or otherwise. Why that is is not within my understanding. Could it be that I am not of God? I suppose it could be that I am not of God and I've been fooling myself all along or it could also be that God has not chosen to reveal Himself to me in that way. I do believe He has revealed Himself to me in other ways.

    While you have pointed out Scripture that supports your view, there is plenty of other Scripture to support the hearing of God audibly as we have been defining it. What we need to do is understand this question in light of all Scripture because Scripture does not contradict. Is it possible then that God can and does speak to some as He does to you, some as He does to me, and some using audible words? I believe He can and does.
     
  17. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

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    The work of God is that all should come to know the Son. And we get to know people by sending time with them and talking (back and forth) with them. Jesus said He stands and the door and if anyone hears His voice and opens the door He will come into them and eat with them and them with Him. (Rev 3:20) So His work is standing their and talking to us, trying to get our attention and all anyone has to do is listen for Him! And I mean "anyone" and in anyone" So was Jesus talking to the Jews and explaining that they were not hearing His words in other to condemn them or to try and get them to open the door to God, who is spirit? Again, the work of God is that all should come to know the Son. Jesus Christ was trying to help the Jews! He wanted them to realize the problem!!

    Now just yesterday I was talking to the Lord. I was talking to Him about how He has me posting, and posting, and posting this same thing over and over! Why? Why, was He having me do that? That was what I was asking Him!

    He responded, "Karl, I have a problem. My people won't listen to Me. They only will listen to themselves."

    "Surely, some of them hear you and listen." I answered

    He told me, "Yes, but when they do that they are not my problem, they are my friends. My problem is that My people will not to listen to Me! So I have to get around their will. One of the ways I do that is to have you write to them about my problem of get them to be willing to listen to Me. Would you write that to them?"

    He talked to me a bit more about this. But we need to understand that we don't want to listen to Him, we want to listen to ourselves and do was we want to do. That gives Him a problem! And He pointed to a couple of verses.

    Rom 3:11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD

    That is the problem we make for the Lord. None (many everyone, period) seek for God. To say that is not me and you personally is to make God out to be a liar. He has to intervene or you would not ever hear from Him, simply because you won't seek Him. So He has me write about seeking Him and listening to Him so both you and me will see the problem and go ahead and seek His voice (and His words are spirit) even though we don't really want to. He doesn't want any to perish.

    Ps 81:13 Oh that My people would listen to Me...

    That is His heart for us. That we would listen to Him, and talk with Him, and simply get to know Him the person of Jesus Christ! And His words are spirit and are life. And He never leaves us. And He is a wonderful counselor. So we can choose to listen to Him (against our will) or can make ourselves out to be our god and keep leaning on our own understanding!
     
  18. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
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    45,280
    Location:
    State of Jefferson
    Christian:
    Yes
    define spirit...

    We worship in spirit and truth .. is there any verbalization to that spirit?

    Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
     
  19. WIP

    WIP Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
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    Central Minnesota, USA
    Christian:
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    K2Christ,
    I honestly believe that you are being honest and sincere in everything you have posted and I appreciate what you say and am praying about it. But I also fear that you may be putting God in a box when you say He won't speak audibly. I guess on that point I just agree to disagree. Thank you for your thought provoking teaching.
     
  20. K2CHRIST

    K2CHRIST Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2016
    Messages:
    695

    Now the Lord once told me that if I wanted to worship Him, do what He told me.

    We often get praise and worship confused! When we sing and church we are praising God. Worship on the other hand is giving Him the honor and respect He deserves! And if you do that you are going to be treating Him as Lord, meaning you are going to be listening to Him and doing what He says! And thus there is instructions that come from Him that we need to hear!

    So if a person is not willing to listen to the Lord who is always with them, are they really worshipping Him? No. They might praise Him and thank Him for all that He does for them, but they are not worshipping Him and respecting His authority. Jesus asked something about why do we call Him Lord and not do what He says? It is because we don't listen and thus we don't worship Him as really being our Lord!
     

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