Bible Study Have You Fallen From Grace?

[Squeakybro]

GRACE (FALL FROM))
Heb 6:10
10 For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
Luke 1:50
50 And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
2 Cor 5:5
5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
Rom 8:27
27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
2 Cor 10:4-5
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,
5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
1 Cor 11:31
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.
John 5:22-23
22 "For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,
23 "that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
II Jn 1:9-11
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Acts 4:12
12 "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
Eph 4:4-6
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph 4:11-14
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
Col 2:8
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
Heb 10:28-29
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Gal 5:1-4
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Heb 2:1
1 Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away.
2 Cor 13:5
5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?-- unless indeed you are disqualified.
Rom 3:23
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Heb 12:15
15 looking diligently lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;
Heb 6:10
10 For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
Rev 3:15-16
15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot.
16 "So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
(NKJ)
xxThere are so many ways that one can be disqualified, and disciples dont know it. A disciple is a student or beginner in Christianity. Now because someone who has fallen from grace or fallen short or been disqualifed doesnt know it them selves. It is easy for them to lead a disciple down the wrong path. When God has turned a person over to a reprobate mind, the person doesnt have the spiritual knowledge to discern it, and they become the blind leading the blind. Also a hypocrite doesnt know he is a hypocrite. The only evidence of any of this is having less verses now than you had a year ago. Because a christians growth, is in their growing in the Spirit, or in the idea that their still teaching the same thing today that they taught a year ago, if their on the same message. Where is their growth? This is the way to check yourself.

 

[cyberjosh]

Why are you concerned about this? What is your motivation, your agenda?

P.S. Oh and I have replied to you in your other threads and PM'd you. I would appreciate some feedback please.

 

[cyberjosh]

Since, unfortunately, your other threads have been locked I would like to atleast bring in one off-topic element which I would like to deal out with you personally.

Read this short article that talks about how if you deny Jesus' divinity that you cannot call yourself a Christian. I believe this applies to you because you denied Jesus as God in no uncertain terms in your other threads.

If you prefer we can carry on this discussion over PM.

 

[Squeakybro]

your file.
Must a person believe that Christ is God in order to be saved? I don't think it is necessary for you to be aware of that doctrine and hold to it before you can become a Christian and receive forgiveness. But I think that you have to know some doctrine in order to be a Christian, in order to receive God's gift of salvation. I think it is a very fundamental and basic doctrine that you need to know.

I said.
Do you know what an oxymoron is???
And your going to throw out some guys own opinion on what makes a Christian, and your going to eat it up hook line and sinker.

Rom 12:16
16 Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
(NKJ)

No wonder you hide my revelations, they are the Word of God. They are the proof and evidence of what a Spirit filled Christian is suppose to look like.
The evidence that God has sent someone is in the fact they quote the verses.
John 3:34
34 "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.
(NKJ)

The evidence that they have the Holy Spirit is in the fact that they quote the verses.
John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
(NKJ)

The evidence that someone is deceived is when they reject the Word of God(verses) for carnal opinions.
John 12:48-49
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
(NKJ)

The Word of God(verses) was good enough for Jesus. And good enough for the Holy Spirit. And good enough for any born again Christian that is demonstrating the Spirit.
1 Cor 2:4-5
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
(NKJ)


But the problem with beginners is they want to add their own opinion and use it to override the Word of God. Because then they can make up their own god the way they want him to be. But that is the evidence they have the wrong god.

2 Cor 11:14-15
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
(NKJ)

II Th 2:4-5
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
(NKJ)

And when this one convicts you I'm sure you will hide it also.

 

[Squeakybro]

Oh yes my agenda is to draw out hypocrites and hereticks for all to judge.

 

[cyberjosh]

Judge me, I welcome it. But you won't see me denying Jesus Christ as God like you at any time, and because of it my faith is stead fast and my ideas of Jesus not diminished.

"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." (John 7:24).

But be warned to excercise accurate judgement, lest ye be judged.

 

[Squeakybro]

you said
Judge me, I welcome it. But you won't see me denying Jesus Christ as God like you at any time, and because of it my faith is stead fast and my ideas of Jesus not diminished.

"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." (John 7:24).

But be warned to excercise accurate judgement, lest ye be judged.

I said
Righteous judgment is done with the Word of God(verses).
You say Jesus is God.

Jesus says twice here that the Father is the only God. You DO DENY JESUS AND WHAT HE HAS SAID. You do NOT believe in Jesus as the scripture has said.
John 7:38
38 "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water."
(NKJ)

John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)


Paul says here twice that the Father is the only God. You DO DENY WHAT PAUL HAS SAID.
1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

Eph 4:6
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
(NKJ)

In order to believe in the trinity you have to deny the Word of God.

 

[cyberjosh]

Obviously I'm not going to progress anywhere with you on the trinity front. Let's try a different approach, from the opposite end. Pulled from this site, are difficult questions to answer if Jesus is NOT god:

If Jesus is not God, then explain...

1. Why Thomas calls Jesus God in John 20:28? (Note, Thomas addresses Jesus specifically.)
2. Why does God call Jesus God in Heb. 1:8?
3. Why does John the apostle state that Jesus was the Word which was God that became flesh (John 1:1,14)?
4. Why is the phrase "Call upon the name of the LORD" (Hebrew, YHWH, i.e., Psalm 116:4) used only of God on the OT, and translated into the Greek in the LXX as "Call upon the name of the LORD (greek, KURIOS)," applied to Jesus in the NT (1 Cor. 1:2) if Jesus is not God in flesh?
5. Why does the apostle John say that Jesus was , "...calling God His own Father, making Himself equal to God," (John 5:18)?
6. What did Jesus say that caused the Pharisees to claim that Jesus was making Himself out to be God.
7. How was it possible for Jesus to know all things (John 21:17)?
8. How can Jesus know all men (John 16:30)?
9. How can Jesus be everywhere (Matt. 28:20)?
10. How can Jesus, the Christ, dwell in you (Col. 1:27)?
11. How can Jesus be the exact representation of the Nature of God (Heb. 1:3)?
12. How can Jesus be eternal (Micah 5:1-2)?
13. How can Jesus be the one who gives eternal life (John 10:27-28)?
14. How can He be our only Lord and Master (Jude 4)?
15. How can Jesus be called the Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) if there is only one God
in existence (Isaiah 44:6-8; 45:5)?
16. How can Jesus be called the Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) and "God" also be called the Mighty God in Isaiah 10:21?
17. How was Jesus able to raise Himself from the dead (John 2:19-21)?
18. How can Jesus create all things (Col. 1:16-17), yet it is God who created all things by Himself (Isaiah 44:24)?
19. How can Jesus search the hearts and minds of the people (Rev. 2:23)?
20. Why was Jesus worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9; John 9:35-38; Heb. 1:6) when He says to worship God only (Matt. 4:10)? (same Greek word for worship is used in each place.)
21. In the OT God was seen (Exodus 6:2-3; 24:9-11; Num. 12:6-9; Acts 7:2), yet no man can see God (Exodus 33:20; John 1:18). It was not the Father that was seen in the OT (John 6:46). Who, then were they seeing? See John 8:58.
22. Then why did Jesus claim the divine name, "I AM", for Himself in John 8:58? see Exodus 3:14.
23. Then why did Jesus say you must honor him even as you honor the Father (John 5:23)?
24. Then why is it that both the Father and the Son give life (John 5:21)?
25. Then why did Jesus bear witness of Himself (John 8:18; 14:6)?

 

[Squeakybro]

you said
1. Why Thomas calls Jesus God in John 20:28? (Note, Thomas addresses Jesus specifically.)

I said
Thomas wasnt addressing Jesus God. Take a look at where this verse is. It is near the end of the book of John. Thomas knew that God was in Jesus doing all the works. Now If you were standing before Jesus and knew that God was also in Jesus would you insult one of them by not addressing them? If he addressed Jesus he would be insulting God. If he only addressed God he would be insulting Jesus. So he addressed them both.

John 20:28
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
(NKJ)

2 Cor 5:19
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
(NKJ)



you said
2. Why does God call Jesus God in Heb. 1:8?

I said
Start at verse 6 to understand verse 8. When He(God) again brings Jesus into the world. He(God) hasnt done that yet. But when He does Jesus will have the authority of a God. But not yet.
Heb 1:6-8
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship Him."
7 And of the angels He says: "Who makes His angels spirits and His ministers a flame of fire."
8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
(NKJ)

you said
3. Why does John the apostle state that Jesus was the Word which was God that became flesh (John 1:1,14)?
I said

John 1:1
That isnt saying Jesus is God. Look at it again. The Word was God. and the Word is full of grace and truth. And that Word that is full of grace and truth came "through" Jesus when Jesus spoke to us.
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NKJ)

John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
(NKJ)

John 1:17-18
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
(NKJ)

And the definition of the word flesh is not skin and bones. The definition of the word flesh is carnally minded. So when one receives the Word of God(verses) over their carnal logic they become spiritually minded instead of carnally minded.

John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
(NKJ)

4561 sarx (sarx);

probably from the base of 4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), i.e. (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul [or spirit], or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred), or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties [physically or morally] and passions), or (specifically) a human being (as such):

KJV-- carnal (-ly, + -ly minded), flesh ([-ly]).


you said
4. Why is the phrase "Call upon the name of the LORD" (Hebrew, YHWH, i.e., Psalm 116:4) used only of God on the OT, and translated into the Greek in the LXX as "Call upon the name of the LORD (greek, KURIOS)," applied to Jesus in the NT (1 Cor. 1:2) if Jesus is not God in flesh?
5. Why does the apostle John say that Jesus was , "...calling God His own Father, making Himself equal to God," (John 5:18)?

I said
Now this is why you dont know who the real God is. You mix the old testament with the new testament. You dont abide in the new testament as the Word says to do.

II Jn 1:8-11
8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
(NKJ)

 

[cyberjosh]

Thomas wasnt addressing Jesus God. Take a look at where this verse is. It is near the end of the book of John. Thomas knew that God was in Jesus doing all the works. Now If you were standing before Jesus and knew that God was also in Jesus would you insult one of them by not addressing them? If he addressed Jesus he would be insulting God. If he only addressed God he would be insulting Jesus. So he addressed them both.

Well then why don't you call me God? I'm offended. I have God in me too. You contradict the reason you give that Thomas called Jesus God. Why wasn't Jesus concerned about offending Thomas since he had just given them the Holy Spirit (John 20:22)? Shouldn't Jesus then be calling Thomas God if your reasoning is correct? Same with any of the disciples. I don't buy that arguement, sorry.

Start at verse 6 to understand verse 8. When He(God) again brings Jesus into the world. He(God) hasnt done that yet. But when He does Jesus will have the authority of a God. But not yet.
Heb 1:6-8
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship Him."
7 And of the angels He says: "Who makes His angels spirits and His ministers a flame of fire."
8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
(NKJ)

From the understanding of the doctrine of the trinity, Jesus, God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit were eternally one but the "begotten" part was when they took specific distinctual roles in the Godhead. Thus the role of sonship was begotten or given to Jesus.

And from your arguement this bring up a question I would like to ask. You said, "But when He does Jesus will have the authority of a God. But not yet." From your perspective: why? Why would God the Father want to give Jesus authority as God? What motivation or reason when God is a jealous God and God is one? Jesus would take people's eyes off of God if he we not God.

I said

John 1:1
That isnt saying Jesus is God. Look at it again. The Word was God. and the Word is full of grace and truth. And that Word that is full of grace and truth came "through" Jesus when Jesus spoke to us.
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NKJ)

John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
(NKJ)

John 1:17-18
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
(NKJ)

You need to rearrange the order of your sentance above to: "And that Word is Jesus, through whom fullness of of grace and truth came, when he spoke to us. "

And the definition of the word flesh is not skin and bones. The definition of the word flesh is carnally minded. So when one receives the Word of God(verses) over their carnal logic they become spiritually minded instead of carnally minded.

John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
(NKJ)

4561 sarx (sarx);

probably from the base of 4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), i.e. (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul [or spirit], or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred), or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties [physically or morally] and passions), or (specifically) a human being (as such):

KJV-- carnal (-ly, + -ly minded), flesh ([-ly]).

Your very definition from the concordance refutes your interpretation of this refering to flesh in that passage as 'carnally minded' because it can refer to physical flesh, and so it does in context of the Word "dwelling" (tabernacling) among us.

Something additionally interesting to note is that that word "dwelt/tabernacled" is translated from the Greek word skenoo which was passed into the Greek from the Hebrew cognate SKN which is translated several times in the OT as "tabernacled" (meaning to pitch a tent to dwell). From that Hebrew word we get the word Shekinah, as in God's Shekinah glory, which "dwelt" in the Tabernacle and later in the Temple. John 1:14 shows in powerful imagery Jesus being God in the form of the Word, indwelling his Shekinah Presence in human flesh (a physical body -symbolic of a tent in the OT). And remember Jesus refered to his body as a Temple. This is in keeping with God dwelling among us. This is the meaning of Immanuel.

Now this is why you dont know who the real God is. You mix the old testament with the new testament. You dont abide in the new testament as the Word says to do.

II Jn 1:8-11
8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
(NKJ)

These weren't my questions, I just copy n' pasted them from that site. I can agree that all those questions don't work as arguements but the majority of them do IMO. I would just like to know your reasoning for each of them.

~Josh

 

[Squeakybro]

These weren't my questions, I just copy n' pasted them from that site. I can agree that all those questions don't work as arguements but the majority of them do IMO. I would just like to know your reasoning for each of them.

~Josh

I said
I have no idea of what your asking. You posted other peoples questions. Would you mind posting yours and being alittle more specific.

 

[cyberjosh]

I said
I have no idea of what your asking. You posted other peoples questions. Would you mind posting yours and being alittle more specific.

I gave my own list of Scriptures which I believed proved Jesus as God. Then I saw that site and decided to see your responses to them. The first two were actually the same two I quoted, so those were of particular interest to me. But I'm glad you you answered some of the others.

Now I gave you some feedback on those. Please, in a reasonable fashion, show me where you disagree. We really can work through this discussion until we reach a fundamental conclusion (although we may differ - atleast we could break it down a bit) if we talk this all the way through. And I asked you above in my last post your perspective on something, surely you can atleast answer that.

Please quote my responses, as you have been doing thus far (thank you), and respond to them. I really do want to hear your feedback. Because if you make a good point it will challenge me to respond in a Bibilical manner. I like doing this and in the process it reaffirms true beliefs and perhaps puts a new shade on or changes old beliefs. I like this process of critical thinking and learning proper Biblical Doctrine. Surely you can answer some of my points above....?

 

[Squeakybro]

Ok you refer to something you claim you said before and I cant find it or follow it. So If you will just ask it again I will be glad to answer. But be specific.

 

[cyberjosh]

Ok you refer to something you claim you said before and I cant find it or follow it. So If you will just ask it again I will be glad to answer. But be specific.

*smacks head*

My bad, I'm starting to get all three of these threads confused. I'll have to copy n' paste those verses over here. Sorry.

In the mean time would you be so kind as to attempt to comment on my feedback of your comments on those 4 verses you just commented on? I think we could develop an interesting conversation on just those items alone.

 

[Squeakybro]

you said

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Ok you refer to something you claim you said before and I cant find it or follow it. So If you will just ask it again I will be glad to answer. But be specific.


*smacks head*

My bad, I'm starting to get all three of these threads confused. I'll have to copy n' paste those verses over here. Sorry.

In the mean time would you be so kind as to attempt to comment on my feedback of your comments on those 4 verses you just commented on? I think we could develop an interesting conversation on just those items alone.

I said
Placeing finger between lips and moving up and down rapidly and humming. You should read my comment again. What verses???

 

[cyberjosh]

I said
Placeing finger between lips and moving up and down rapidly and humming. You should read my comment again. What verses???

Oh now you are getting confused. I will go get the verses from the other thread that I said I gave myself (gave them a couple days ago), but I asked if you would respond to my feedback (in the mean time) on the 4 verses (a different set of verses) that you commented on yesterday that I got from that site which is like 5 or 6 posts up on this page, where I said such things as:

Well then why don't you call me God? I'm offended. I have God in me too. You contradict the reason you give that Thomas called Jesus God. Why wasn't Jesus concerned about offending Thomas since he had just given them the Holy Spirit (John 20:22)? Shouldn't Jesus then be calling Thomas God if your reasoning is correct? Same with any of the disciples. I don't buy that arguement, sorry.

and

From the understanding of the doctrine of the trinity, Jesus, God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit were eternally one but the "begotten" part was when they took specific distinctual roles in the Godhead. Thus the role of sonship was begotten or given to Jesus.

And from your arguement this bring up a question I would like to ask. You said, "But when He does Jesus will have the authority of a God. But not yet." From your perspective: why? Why would God the Father want to give Jesus authority as God? What motivation or reason when God is a jealous God and God is one? Jesus would take people's eyes off of God if he we not God.

While you look over those I'll go try to dig up the verses that I quoted myself and bring them over here...

 

[cyberjosh]

Ok, found the verses I quoted myself a while back:

[quote:394e0]Jesus was so identified with the Father that he said they were one (John 10:30). If you saw Jesus you saw the Father, "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." And he showed their intimate relationship, "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me?" (John 14:7-10)

Jesus said, "I have come in My Father's name" (John 5:43) and identified himself several times as I AM. Jesus said to the priests to "tear this temple down" and he would rebuild it in 3 days, refering to his death and ressurection. Acts says that God raised him, but Jesus takes first person here (I will).

Philippians 2:6 says "although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, " because he was equal with God the Father already.
Hebrews 1:8 reveals what God the Father said of the Son, "But of the Son He says,
'YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,
AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.' "

Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28). And Colossians 2:9 says, "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."

Now once you review those will you then go back and respond to my feedback to your replies [/quote:394e0]

 

[Squeakybro]

you said

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
I said
Placeing finger between lips and moving up and down rapidly and humming. You should read my comment again. What verses???


Oh now you are getting confused. I will go get the verses from the other thread that I said I gave myself (gave them a couple days ago), but I asked if you would respond to my feedback (in the mean time) on the 4 verses (a different set of verses) that you commented on yesterday that I got from that site which is like 5 or 6 posts up on this page, where I said such things as:


I said
Well Duh! Yes you are very confuseing.
you said
Quote:
Well then why don't you call me God? I'm offended. I have God in me too. You contradict the reason you give that Thomas called Jesus God. Why wasn't Jesus concerned about offending Thomas since he had just given them the Holy Spirit (John 20:22)? Shouldn't Jesus then be calling Thomas God if your reasoning is correct? Same with any of the disciples. I don't buy that arguement, sorry.

I said
I'm sorry but that just doesnt make any sense at all. I never said Thomas called Jesus God.


you said
and

Quote:
From the understanding of the doctrine of the trinity, Jesus, God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit were eternally one but the "begotten" part was when they took specific distinctual roles in the Godhead. Thus the role of sonship was begotten or given to Jesus.

I said
You mean from mans doctrine. Because their is no trinity doctrine in the Word of God about God the Father God the Holy Spirit and God the Son.

you said
And from your arguement this bring up a question I would like to ask. You said, "But when He does Jesus will have the authority of a God. But not yet." From your perspective: why? Why would God the Father want to give Jesus authority as God? What motivation or reason when God is a jealous God and God is one? Jesus would take people's eyes off of God if he we not God.

I said
Because Jesus purchased us with His blood.

While you look over those I'll go try to dig up the verses that I quoted myself and bring them over here...

 

[Squeakybro]

you said

John 14:7-10
7 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him."
8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us."
9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
(NKJ)


I said

John 5:36-38
36 "But I have a greater witness than John's; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish-- the very works that I do-- bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me.
37 "And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
38 "But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe.
(NKJ)

John 14:10
10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
(NKJ)

John 12:48-49
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
(NKJ)

you said

John 5:43
43 "I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.
(NKJ)

I said
I see nothing in that verse about Jesus saying He was the "I Am"

you said
John 20:28
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
(NKJ)

Me and Gary agree on this one. Now does the word "and" mean that me and gary are the same person or different people????????
context, context, context.

 

[cyberjosh]

Me and Gary agree on this one. Now does the word "and" mean that me and gary are the same person or different people????????
context, context, context.

Granville.....Sharp....Rule....