Hell, what is it?

[chessman]

I understood that the verse you were making reference to was Matthew 10:28 (that was what I thought anyway) and in the NKJV it is worded as follows:
But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Actually the NKJV of 10:28 says more than the partial phrase you posted from it above or the one word you posted previously from it as does the whole passage of 2 Thess 1:6-10 that I posted. I simply underlined the single portion I was making a single point about, as I will do below.

Matthew 10:28 (NKJV)And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. ​

My point is about fearing His destruction yet not fearing death.

Why would Jesus say to fear something He will not actually do (yet others cannot) while at the same time saying not to fear something that will actually occur?

I don't see this saying that He will destroy both soul and body but that He is able to do so.

I understand He doesn't say here that He will destroy both body and soul in Hell. In fact He doesn't even come right out and say it's Him that is able to do it. Kind of leaves the fact that it's actually Him He's talking about open-ended prior to His actual resurrection. But Paul, after Jesus' resurrection and John's revelation of Jesus Christ makes no ambiguity about it being Him doing the "destruction". Seems like progressive revelation to me.

Speaking of "eternal destruction" in 2 Thes 1:6-10 and "destroy both soul and body" in Matt 10:28:

So to rectify that with 2 Thessalonians it seems that one probably shouldn't stop where you ended your underline but maybe continue to the end of the phrase?

Rectify what? I don't see anything that needs conversion or correction (rectification) between the verses (all of them).

Am I understanding you correctly that in Matt 10:28 the punishment of the wicked sounds like the very literal destruction of both the body and soul in Hell "by Him who is able to" do just that (but will not actually do that). Yet in 2 Thess 1:6-10 "eternal destruction away from His presence sounds to you more like 'life' "away from" the presence of the omnipresent Lord (the very sustainer of life) for an eternity?

In my mind and understanding, being away from the Lord for eternity would be a life of eternal destruction.

I've re-read all of the 2 Thess passage (not just the underlined portion), and I don't find "life" being mentioned for unbelievers when the one who is able to destroy both the body and soul returns with power. Where did you get that understanding of "life" from?

 

[MarkT]

Another thread prompted this discussion. So I figured we could begin by knowing what exactly hell is.

What is it?

Was it created, or did it always exist?

Who goes there?

Why do they go there?

I think we often don't like to talk about it for some reason, but sometimes it's nessesary to understand things.

It's in hell or in the hell of fire. In the hell of fire Mt. 5:22 describes the fire as being hell or hellish. The eternal fire is hell.
Matthew 25:41
Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;

Isaiah speaks of the burning place.
Isaiah 30:33
For a burning place has long been prepared; yea, for the king it is made ready, its pyre made deep and wide, with fire and wood in abundance; the breath of the Lord, like a stream of brimstone, kindles it.

Who goes there? The unfaithful.
Luke 12:46
the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will punish him, and put him with the unfaithful.

The wicked. Evil doers. The godless.

Why do they go there? Because they hate God.
Romans 1:29-31Revised Standard Version (RSV)
29 They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.

 

[Windsong]

I'm a member also of Tentmaker forums and am currently studying two sites a brother there recommended and that also incorporate scriptures in the teaching about the Hell. The parable, allegory.
http://thetotalvictoryofchrist.com/whatisthelakeoffire.pdf
This is a creative commons license site so I'll share the last part of the article.
“The devil who deceived them was thrown into the refiner's crucible with sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tested for purity day and night in the ages of ages.” - Revelation 20:10. Therefore they will be tested and refined in the ages of ages and not literally through all eternity. Although not a torture chamber in fire this passage it is still a picture of justice. Some have speculated that true justice would be to experience the pain and suffering we caused for others through the eyes of our victims. That if we were careless and selfish and lived without mercy toward others we also will not receive mercy in equal measure. As believers we are taught to be merciful because mercy triumphs over judgment “So speak, and so do, as men who are to be judged by a law of freedom. For judgment is without mercy to him who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.” - (James 2:12-13). So from now on when you read about the “lake of fire” remember the tiny crucible used for refining gold. That is the imagery the Apostle John is actually using, the so-called lake of fire.


And this site is the second one the brother recommended to study. I think these are great resources so far. If anyone wants to check them out let me know what you think about the research.

 

[Hermit]

Hell: Knowing you got it ALL wrong but cannot do anything to change it.

 

[MarkT]

I'm a member also of Tentmaker forums and am currently studying two sites a brother there recommended and that also incorporate scriptures in the teaching about the Hell. The parable, allegory.
http://thetotalvictoryofchrist.com/whatisthelakeoffire.pdf
This is a creative commons license site so I'll share the last part of the article.
“The devil who deceived them was thrown into the refiner's crucible with sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tested for purity day and night in the ages of ages.” - Revelation 20:10. Therefore they will be tested and refined in the ages of ages and not literally through all eternity. Although not a torture chamber in fire this passage it is still a picture of justice. Some have speculated that true justice would be to experience the pain and suffering we caused for others through the eyes of our victims. That if we were careless and selfish and lived without mercy toward others we also will not receive mercy in equal measure. As believers we are taught to be merciful because mercy triumphs over judgment “So speak, and so do, as men who are to be judged by a law of freedom. For judgment is without mercy to him who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.” - (James 2:12-13). So from now on when you read about the “lake of fire” remember the tiny crucible used for refining gold. That is the imagery the Apostle John is actually using, the so-called lake of fire.


And this site is the second one the brother recommended to study. I think these are great resources so far. If anyone wants to check them out let me know what you think about the research.

I would take it as wood, hay and straw, and anyone who builds with it is building with fuel for the coming fire.
1 Corinthians 3:11-13Revised Standard Version (RSV)
11 For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.

In other words, he is not building with the word of God which is said to be better than gold and understanding is better than silver. Pr. 16:16
Proverbs 3:14
for the gain from it is better than gain from silver and its profit better than gold.
Proverbs 8:10
Take my instruction instead of silver, and knowledge rather than choice gold;
Proverbs 8:19
My fruit is better than gold, even fine gold, and my yield than choice silver.
Proverbs 16:16
To get wisdom is better than gold; to get understanding is to be chosen rather than silver.

Proverbs 17:3
The crucible is for silver, and the furnace is for gold, and the Lord tries hearts.

The crucible in this case is the heart. The proverb says the Lord tries our hearts with fire, putting our beliefs and what we know to the test to see if what we have stored up in our hearts is true or not. If what we store in our heart isn't true, then it will be burned. So I'm saying your resource is false.

 

[blair032]

Psalm 139:7-10 promises even those in Sheol, the grave , will not be outside the presence of God.
I think Hell is separation from God. And that for overlong translations and politics have made translations of the original teaching mean a place of fire and brimstone.

Can't agree more.

When Jesus said in the Beatitudes, blessed are the merciful for they shall receive mercy, wouldn't it be quite the conundrum if that were speaking of humans and omitting God? Being opening the eternal punishment place for Satan and his angels to humans would not represent mercy at all.

We do have a choice tho right? I agree from our limited perspective, altho God has perfect mercy & justice, so I'm not going to criticize even if I may not agree with hell for some. But looking from God's view, giving up your only Son to save us from sin & all the forgiveness that accompanies it, I can see how they can be deserving of hell. Can you imgine ssacrificing your own child with the same intentions, & people discard it as myth or whatever?

Yet we know , God is mercy.And love.
Hell can't be eternal place of punishment when we're told God can destroy the body in Hell.

Please give me a reference re "God can destroy the body in Hell."

 

[Free]

Please give me a reference re "God can destroy the body in Hell."

Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (ESV)

 

[Christ_empowered]

this is interesting. Have y'all read The Great Divorce? CS Lewis at his finest. His version of Hell was...not so much fire and brimstone as being trapped in one's own past life, your own problems, separated from God...for eternity. When the bus went up to Heaven, most of the people from Hell wanted to go back...

...and at some point in the book, he writes that those who seek Heaven find it ("Knock and the door shall be opened," etc.).

 

[OzSpen]

this is interesting. Have y'all read The Great Divorce? CS Lewis at his finest. His version of Hell was...not so much fire and brimstone as being trapped in one's own past life, your own problems, separated from God...for eternity. When the bus went up to Heaven, most of the people from Hell wanted to go back...

...and at some point in the book, he writes that those who seek Heaven find it ("Knock and the door shall be opened," etc.).

Yet Paul to the Romans wrote: 'But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed' (Rom 2:5 NIV).

 

[chessman]

Malachi 3:2-3 And who can endure the day of his coming? And who is the one who can stand when he appears? For he is like a refiner’s fire, like launderers’ alkali. He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the children of Levi, and he will refine them like gold and like silver, and they will present to Yahweh offerings in righteousness.​